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I agree, things happen quickly. A teen doesn’t just turn her bottoms in to a grown man so he can wash the crotch. You don’t say if he did it or not but if he did that is a huge problem. A normal situation would be he would say to his wife "this is weird, can you handle this with her?" I get the girl is over the top but this man is taking advantage of a 16 year old girl. Even if it hasn’t crossed into a sexual relationship it’s already an emotional and overly affectionate and flirtatious relationship.

This is predatory behavior, and he has no intentions to stop. If your BFF doesn’t get strong in how she handles this, it’s going to end up very very bad. She could be charged as an accessory even for not following through on suspicions.

And how does the son feel seeing this? Is he not embarrassed? I could see this as very damaging for him should his dad continue having access to this child. Because it’s not will it escalate, it’s when. The man has no boundaries. And now we have all these adults witnessing this weirdo behavior and then just gossiping about it? "What’s going on with these two?" That’s not enough.

This whole thing gives me the Heebie jeebies. This is not an EA or a PA, this is child abuse. Whether it’s emotional or sexual I don’t know but he is in a position of power over her and it will soon be both for sure if it is not stopped this instant.

Honestly, if nothing is done soon I would maybe involve the authorities. I could not stand by and let this continue knowing what road it’s likely going down. There were many adults who knew or suspected what happened to me, not one of them did anything about it so this maybe triggering, but there is a responsibility to this young girl here and I could not gloss over it even if it means people would be upset.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:52 PM, Wednesday, July 10th]

I read this post several times, I started writing a long and detailed response, but in the end it all comes down to this..

Hell. fucking. no.

Of course, there's no way for me to know what's truly going on, but I really think that this emotionally inept doofus of a man got in way over his head, like the proverbial frog in the pot of water. His actions and INACTION are incredibly inappropriate and problematic, but I don't think that he's got a predatory mindset. That said, she is a minor, and HE'S the one responsible for making sure that boundaries are set and maintained. I do think it's possible that the impropriety could have continued to escalate slowly until it flamed out in some horrible fashion.

Julie and one of her sisters came by last night while BFF and H were arguing. They knew that something was wrong and asked about it, but BFF and H didn't answer. When they left, Julie told H, "Thank you for all the love you've shown to me" or something like that, then kissed her hand and touched his face. BFF didn't see it. H told her about it. It's all very American Beauty.

H said that BFF didn't see the whole "Julie's arm around H on the couch" thing. The three sisters are upset about something at home, and one of the older sisters had just gotten up from having her arm around him on his other side when BFF walked in the room and saw Julie with her arm around H.

He also said that BFF had the swimsuit thing all wrong, but I don't know. I remember her telling me about it when it first happened, about a year ago, because it was the first thing that really made her cringe.

They've pretty much decided that they need to talk to the older girls and explain that they're uncomfortable with the loose physical boundaries and need to tighten it up. BFF is unwilling to cut them off, especially without an explanation. She likens it to ending her friendship with me without an explanation. She doesn't want to hurt them like that. I told her that she can't have a relationship with the older two girls without Julie. They're sisters. They're a package deal. She said they're going to feign unavailability for a while to keep Julie from coming over while they decide what to do.

The son is happy to have the girls there to distract his parents from focusing on him. Also, he likes them.

Anything posted on social media (pictures) of her & her "dad"?

What pics might be in her phone of Julie & H?

Any odd text messages or secret apps on his phone?

Have a friend who drove home a teen aged babysitter one night. She accused him of something. He never touched her. Spent $ and time trying to defend himself against the false allegations. Luckily the babysitter admitted a year later she said it for attention. After that my H never drove anyone home.

Julie could be going this to annoy the BFF - just to be mean spirited. Not saying it’s the only reason but could be part of the reason.

I think you need to put cameras in the home secretly. Just to see what is really going on.

And get this girl out of the home as quietly and quickly as possible.

I feel bad the H is so dense and doesn’t get it. He’s making the wife look like the bad guy here. How sad.

Uggh.

They've pretty much decided that they need to talk to the older girls and explain that they're uncomfortable with the loose physical boundaries and need to tighten it up. BFF is unwilling to cut them off, especially without an explanation.

Sorry, but I totally disagree with this approach. What a tough situation!!

If those older adult sisters had any problem at all with the younger sister's actions, they would already have approached the younger sibling and talked to her and told her to stop. Granted, that perspective is based on how I would interact or have interacted with my younger and older siblings. These young women don't really know what is appropriate or they would have reacted already. It seems they are counting on the adults, BFF and husband, to handle this situation appropriately. It's sad, but I don't think any of those young women know what appropriate behavior looks like.

The BFF and her husband should be responsible here. Her husband seems to be unwilling. BFF should step up. What a shame.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 5:07 AM, Thursday, July 11th]

Maybe a gift of Not Just Friends? Your BFF and H could read together?

SacredSoul,

No, I disagree. Doffius or not his behavior is abhorrent. My uncle is a doofus, but he is fantastic around my daughters and while goofy and lame, he has never grabbed their feet and asked about toenail polish. That’s some Dan schinder level there.

As for cleaning the swimsuit/period blood, like as an actual dad of daughters I have had to take care of some soiled clothes when out without my wife, but they were also 10/11 and again I’m their actual dad. Don’t let her WH tell her she is misremembering, you don’t forget something like that because it’s fucking weird at best. That isn’t something you misunderstand. That is something you absolutely remember.

Just because he is a doofus doesn’t mean he’s not a predator. I don’t buy this people pleasing no boundaries bullshit. That’s a pathetic excuse. He’s a 60 year old man and he’s a predator. Are we really going to say he isn’t the one in control here? That’s crap. He is attracted to a 16 year old child and he is acting on it. Not only that he is fighting his wife about it, not because it’s wrong but because he wants to keep taking advantage of her.

My abuser was a meek nerd. Goofy, big belly, awkward jokes, shy. Until he got me alone.

Agree with HHNF. Many people who have inappropriate or even sexual relations with a minor are charming, affable, it’s hard to believe it out of them.

I am not saying it crossed into that extreme, but you have to see you came here talking about this on an affair site because something doesn’t feel right about this situation.

I am surprised the husband has agreed, but that doesn’t really mean anything. How many cheating people go along but take the situation further under ground.

He has at a minimum enjoyed her attention enough not to make adult boundaries. The slippery slope goes from here, just as if it was a normal affair. But it’s never an affair with a minor, it’s a crime. Her actions towards him like kissing her hand and touching his face are happening because she has been led to believe he enjoys her attention. Because he has. A 60 year old man and someone his sons age.

Again, nothing past that may have happened but he is victimizing her by even acting like this is normal because she is young and impressionable and he is old enough to know better.

My sister in law was married to the nicest, quietest man. He was a good father, good provider and extremely quiet and shy. He is dead, he killed himself after the authorities knocked on the door and took him away for questioning. They found videos of him with a 16 year old girl. You do not know about people even when you feel you know them. Not one of my nieces thought he was weird, and they stayed at thier house and something’s the brother in law was the only one watching them.

Also, So much porn centers around step dad/ step daughter shit. And it normalizes behavior for people who re week minded doofus types.

This is potentially a serious situation. Where there is smoke there is fire, and you saw smoke even coming here to post this. I will leave it alone now but Anyone who has ever been sexually abused knows that their predator never seemed like a predator to anyone else. And the fact he hasn’t shutthis down makes him a predator even if he is just using this girl to get validation from her always flirting with him. Why? Because she is a child and it’s not in her best interests for him to keep those boundaries loose to keep getting the attention he clearly wants and enjoys.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:48 PM, Thursday, July 11th]

Thank you, friends.

Just because he is a doofus doesn’t mean he’s not a predator. I don’t buy this people pleasing no boundaries bullshit. That’s a pathetic excuse. He’s a 60 year old man and he’s a predator. Are we really going to say he isn’t the one in control here? That’s crap. He is attracted to a 16 year old child and he is acting on it. Not only that he is fighting his wife about it, not because it’s wrong but because he wants to keep taking advantage of her.

You're right, though I do think it's the people pleasing/no boundaries shit that got him into this situation in the first place. He's in over his head, he's in denial, he's getting something out of it or he wouldn't be doing it, and it's problematic.

And the fact he hasn’t shut this down makes him a predator even if he is just using this girl to get validation from her always flirting with him. Why? Because she is a child and it’s not in her best interests for him to keep those boundaries loose to keep getting the attention he clearly wants and enjoys.

BINGO.

Also, let's just posit for a moment that his intentions are 100% pure and he is just being the goofy, fun dad that he professes to be with Julie. It doesn't matter. No one can see inside his head. Perception is truth. And the perception that most of us have is that he's getting off, one way or another, on the attention of a teenager. ICK.

BFF scheduled an appointment for next week with a family therapist and came up with a brilliant solution to keep the girls at a distance without possibly planting a dangerous seed. She's going to tell the older two girls that she and H are in crisis (which they saw evidence of when they dropped by in the middle of the big fight) and don't have the time or energy for anything but focusing on their marriage right now. Sorry, no visits. No rides to school when the time comes. If the girls question what's going on, the response will be some form of "None of your business." I think that's perfect.

Hidden cameras to find out what’s really going on has been the best advice in the whole thread.

I don’t buy the loveable dufus angle either. Too many stories of that ultimately being a smokescreen .

I don’t think it’s wise to record a minor though. That is child porn.

What bothers me about the hidden camera idea is the fact that this girl is in danger and instead of getting her out of it, the situation is allowed to escalate so it can be recorded.

The intention sounds reasonable but the fact is installing cameras and waiting for him to assault her means ... she gets assaulted.

That can't be a solution.

I'm not willing to let it be a foregone conclusion that the husband is a groomer and pedophile. That may be my naivete or life experience. I don't know. It's still the responsibility of the BFF and her husband to resolve the situation. They are responsible. Not the 16 year old girl. Not her older sisters. Not their son. Them.

I'm not willing to let it be a foregone conclusion that the husband is a groomer and pedophile. That may be my naivete or life experience. I don't know. It's still the responsibility of the BFF and her husband to resolve the situation. They are responsible. Not the 16 year old girl. Not her older sisters. Not their son. Them.

This. I truly don't think he's a groomer or pedo either, but who knows. Like others have said, no one thought their abuser was a bad guy either.

BFF is taking charge and putting the kibosh on visits from Julie, and won't be talking with the sisters or the son about any of it. Her emotional dipshit H is so offended to be accused of being inappropriate that he's hellbent on defending himself and refuses to acknowledge that any of this might even LOOK bad.

He's DARVO'ing like crazy. BFF wasn't raised in an affectionate family, so SHE'S seeing it wrong. Her hangups are the problem. He "doesn't care" what others think; he knows he's got good intentions. Sure, he'd be fine with her mom walking in and seeing Julie's legs thrown across him on the couch, or her arm around him, or her planting little hand-kisses, or him grabbing her foot.

BFF made him go through his phone last night and delete all the little selfies she took when he left his phone unattended. Julie even made one his lock screen photo and he left it there for months. He's either really dumb, or playing dumb, because he had to ask BFF about every one. "Is this one okay?" I think he's fucking with her. I have a hard time believing that he really doesn't know what reeks of impropriety and what doesn't. He'd see it in a heartbeat in someone else, but he's so defensive that he won't admit that he's doing something that looks bad. Or IS bad.

What does BFF Hope to accomplish by talking to the older sisters?

Doing that, it sounds very much like she believes this is a Julie problem, and not a husband problem.

I get why she had him delete this girl's pics from his phone. I assume to get rid of as much of her as possible. I hope it wasn't to protect him,in case Julie responds like many troubled young girls, and possibly makes things up about husband (or tells the truth). Forensics can recover deleted pics and messages. Not to mention the pics and messages Julie has on HER phone. If they think deleting things from his phone will protect him if this gets worse, it won't.

My abuser was everyone's favorite person.

No grown ass man is ok with a teenaged girl laying all over him, kissing hands, calling her his queen. He knows it's not ok. He welcomes it. It's only a problem because he has to deal with an angry wife. Otherwise, he's fine with it.

it's the people pleasing/no boundaries shit that got him into this situation

Those are also 2 very,very common traits of a cheater.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:08 PM, Thursday, July 11th]

I'm not willing to let it be a foregone conclusion that the husband is a groomer and pedophile.

I just want to be clear that me either- I do t think it’s a forgone conclusion that anything other than what’s already known has happened.

I think it’s a foregone conclusion that this relationship is lacking appropriate boundaries and given this young girls age it has to be treated in almost the same way. I say almost because if I found out there was a kiss, any nude pics exchanged, etc, I would call the authorities immediately. Short of that, this bridge has to be burned. While I think that is what your bff is doing, and it’s appropriate, I would be on high alert of secret contact. He will say she is upset and wanted to comfort her but this needs to be a hardline NC sort of situation.

His tendency to Darvo and refusal to see the impropriety is a huge red flag that only makes this more important. Honestly failure for him to come off this would lead me to file for divorce.

What does BFF Hope to accomplish by talking to the older sisters?

It's easier (and kinder, really) to give them a reason for backing off rather than just going dark on them. The two older girls have been very close with BFF for 6-7 years. BFF really likes them, but they're a package deal with Julie, so she knows that she has to back off of having relationships with all of them. She thinks that telling the girls that the marriage is really rocky and that they need to focus solely on that for now has the advantage of being truthful and quelling drama. I think she's right. If she suddenly cut contact, they'd be beating down the door and blowing up their phones, calling son, etc.

She 100% knows it's an H problem. The pics in his phone have been a sore point for a long time. They were already fighting about it, so she was like "get rid of that shit." Not to protect him, but because they irritate the crap out of her and there's no good reason for him to keep them.

No grown ass man is ok with a teenaged girl laying all over him, kissing hands, calling her his queen. He knows it's not ok. He welcomes it. It's only a problem because he has to deal with an angry wife. Otherwise, he's fine with it.

A-friggin'-men.

I think it’s a foregone conclusion that this relationship is lacking appropriate boundaries and given this young girls age it has to be treated in almost the same way.

Exactly. That's why she's insisting that the visits and texts be stopped, and going to a family counselor to (hopefully) have a third party tell him that he really messed up. He absolutely will not hear it from her.

Regardless of whether he finally owns his shit, I think it's too late. She hates him right now. She's already got one foot out the door, except for the financial issues.

This is so damn messy.

ETA: For a long time, he argued that the only reason BFF had a problem with anything that he and Julie do is because BFF doesn't like Julie. And she doesn't. BFF kind of half convinced herself that that could be true, until this thing broke wide open over the last few days. I can't even remember what the catalyst was.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 11:50 PM, Thursday, July 11th]

Late to this post, but this is a hell no. I would speculate that at least half of all pedophiles are socially inept guys and girls. They see it as a second chance to relive their teen years and do better. So you have a traumatized 16 year old with an abusive daddy and someone who is emotional inept. Even if his intentions are totally pure (which I doubt) he's grooming her for the next daddy replacement to take advantage of her. If he had her best interests in mind, he would be teaching her not to treat men inappropriate to be in a relationship in as if they were her BF. Their behavior isn't father daughter. It more of what happens in budding teen relationships.
BFF needs to move forward with divorce. That he would continue with something he knows bothers her, is a sign he doesn't respect her and the marriage. I suspect that she will do better than she thinks financially once she separates herself from the man child she's married to and his poor choices. He's risking some pretty hefty legal fees and other financial consequences when this goes south.

Their behavior isn't father daughter. It more of what happens in budding teen relationships.

Oof. You're right.

I'm going to BFF's lake house this weekend with a couple of really emotionally brilliant girlfriends. I don't know if she'll want to talk about it with them, but if she does, she'll get some good support and advice, I'm sure. At the very least, she'll get a break from him and have some much-needed fun.

I agree that the husband is behaving in an inappropriate manner. As a wife, I would be uncomfortable. She is. I would seriously think about divorce.

This may be controversial, but I also believe that the 16 yr old girl is behaving in an inappropriate manner too. If I were a parent and this were my son/daughter's actions with a neighbor/family friend/relative, I would talk to them about it. I would try to do it in a way that doesn't shame or embarrass them, and I would talk to the other siblings too.

But it's not that. It's BFF's husband. This girl is more like a guest in her house. It's her responsibility to ensure her safety.