SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Tallgirl

Here are a few things I think I’ve learned. And still learning I guess.

1. my happiness is important. I feel like I was trained all my life to put everyones needs before myself. I put my kid's everything in front of me, my husband, my job, friends in need. I stopped thinking that my needs were important. I put my cheaters happiness ahead of mine, I made excuses for my cheater, so he would be happy, I accepted bad behaviors, or didn’t see them because I wanted him to be happy. I will never do that again. I need to be selfish about my happiness and my mental health, so that I can be supportive of the people I love.

2. do not trust blindly, trust based on actions, not your emotions,. I trusted my husband even when he was cheating. I still trusted my husband after I found out he was cheating. For multiple years I trusted him by default, and after I learned of the affair, I would catch myself doing this and adjust my perspective. My trust with him was a habit. When I lost this deep trust in him -and it took a lot for me to lose this trust-, I lost it for a lot of people. I now trust less, and when I do give trust, I watch actions.

3 let go of the anger after it’s done its job. I am often still angry. I can sabotage myself because of that anger. I don’t like some of my behaviours because I default to anger. If you’re like this, let it go. I am working every day to find the calm. It’s not easy. Don’t get comfortable in the anger.

4 sometimes marriages fail and that’s OK. Somehow, I had the belief that if I failed in marriage, I failed in life. No one said this to me. But I believed it. I did not want to become a divorced woman. I did not want my kids to become children of divorced parents. My fear of failure also blinded me in my marriage. I probably would’ve stayed married and miserable if not for the affair. So in someways, I should really appreciate the affair. Well I’m still getting my act together, I am actually happier, being single, and alone than I was being miserable and alone in my marriage. And my kids are happier too. I would never advocate that anyone stay in an unhappy marriage, because it makes for a very unhappy family. I now know how much my kids saw (and regret it) and I wish I had been stronger before and ended the marriage much sooner. I did myself no favours through my beliefs. I want to get to the point where I can say. I am proudly single.

I hope this resonates, I hope someone can save themselves some pain by embracing all with the shared learnings. Thank you for this thread.

So, so good. Especially your reflections on trust and your now lessened capacity to trust. Your note on letting go of the anger "after it’s done its job" intrigues me. Could you expound on that? Ive heard this concept kicked around here and elsewhere and would like to read more about what you see as angers "job", which I assume you deem a positive thing. BTW, I still have very rare anger flare ups as in once or twice a year but they are now brief thank God.

Thanks for pitching in!

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:36 AM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

Hi DT,

For quite some time after I learned about the affair I wanted to reconcile. I was open, I tried to understand and I was in shock and despair.
I wanted to keep our marriage. I have reread my early posts, I was so new, so green in this world. I believed everything he told me. SI warned me about trickle truth, about knee jerk reactions to reconcile, told me to sit with it for a while, about pick me and to not believe everything.

I listened and thought no, I believe we will make it. I want to be married. Really I was terrified by the idea of being alone. So I walked into DDay2 and 3. The lies were incredible, I learned a lot on D Day2. This is when the rug was pulled from under me.

I started to get angry.

My anger gave me the energy, the drive to survive the affair, to expect more for myself. It protected me from going back into a marriage that had no hope to survive. I defended myself. I stood up for myself. I dealt with what was unimaginable previously for me. I survived.

I was powered by anger. I kept going. I did not curl up and die. I did not surrender myself to the comfort of staying.

Anger was my driver. It kept me from crying every day.

It helped me.

But Holding onto it after it has done its job is dangerous because it turns into bitterness and why me type thinking. This is the unhealthy part. So I am learning to accept my past and let go. To be ok with being single at my age. To be confident and not scared of another relationship. Ok I haven’t learned that part yet, it is a WIP.

Tallgirl

Thank you for walking me through the progression of anger you experienced as you walked through those terrible days. This was helpful.

My own anger set in later. What I experienced early on was shock and sorrow. The anger came on a bit later. If I had found my anger earlier, it may have been a good thing for me. But I digress.

I hope things are continuing to improve for you.

WontBeFooledAgain

I also have seen, in one direction, many BS get into the Reconciliation track BY DEFAULT by holding off on a decision and staying with the WS. As in they see their WS every morning at the breakfast table and 'she said she was sorry and there are your kids around so you gonna keep staying mad at her Bub?'. And then the poor BS keeps getting his heart crushed again and again when said WS keeps saying and doing stuff that indiciates she does not get it. HORRIBLE.

I relate to this. More came to play that Ive already described but much here desribes those terribly difficult days. Id look at her and superimpose my vision of who I thought she was over the reality. It led to some hopium smoking for sure.

We have also seen, in the other direction, time and time again WS running around like a scalded cat to try to fix things in those instances where BS makes a dramatic so-called rash action and presses immediately for D. The WS is nowhere near Remorse yet but at least they have ardently started their journey. It is oftentimes the BS's rash and strong response that seems to give the impetus for the WS to get it faster.

I do think this would have been the better path for me. I am not naive enough to think that this path too would include much pain but think now that would have put me on the path to healing faster.

I do think in general SI is a bit too pro-R, or should I say, too optimistic about R. There is a tendency to peddle a certain amount of 'mental gymnastics' as to why the WS cheated and 'maybe this can be fixed'--in some cases where the level of blantant disrespect on the part of the WS is still on-going and extreme(!!), instead of telling the BS that his house is on fire and he needs to *get out* NOW. I often post on here to address the no-doubt well-meaning but IMO harmful takes. But I am digressing a bit here.

Ive seen this debate take place across many threads. I have seen a penchant among some to lean toward R and others toward D. I will say that I have been somewhat aghast when the R crowd recommends staying open to R even in the most heinous of cases. I mean true rogue's gallery level traitors. Years long betrayals with some much deceit, conniving and scheming thats its nauseating. Paternity fraud, infecting the betrayed with std's, some incurable, betrayal while the BS lays in the hospital fighting for their life, while their faithful spouse is bearing their child, etc, etc, etc. R is still being recommended by the R crowd. The final throw is that this site was created by an R'd couple (which I deeply respect). Not all betrayals are the same as to scope of destruction (kind of like comparing a grenade to a land mine to a bunker buster....all terribly destructive but not the same as to scale).

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 4:11 AM, Wednesday, July 24th]

Giving him the benefit of the doubt. Oh he said "good morning" today! He’s trying🤪 and I need to focus on that rather than the bigger picture.

This - falling for the manipulation. Grabbing at crumbs he gave me and eating them like they were caviar. Overlooking clear red flags that he was not really interested in doing what needed to be done - not really interested in hearing about my pain. Not being invested in understanding what I was going through. And my WH listened a LOT - but he said relatively little in response. Now I know (and he admits) he was just biding his time until I stopped talking about it. He would sit thought 3 or 4 hours of my talking where I thought "oh he will get it this time" when the reality was he was checked out, barely listening, like a child in trouble. Say nothing, nod your head in agreement and this too shall pass.

I actually told him one time how I had caught him - I let out my secret weapon (I recorded him from my laptop that always sat in our living room - just turned on audio record and would leave the house) and he tuned me out to the point that he did not even realize I had done so. The result was that he continued to talk to AP on the phone in the house right next to that damn thing anyway, because he hadn't even processed that was my main source of info gathering - and I had told him about it. Yet somehow I kept telling myself he was "getting" what I was telling him when clearly he was not even listening.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:21 PM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

R is about the future, not the past.

The past can't be changed, but one's reaction to the past in malleable. And I can't get away from this truth: the heinous things the WS does is about the WS, not the BS. The betrayal is a dysfunction in the betrayer, not the betrayed. The betrayal is something the betrayer does to themself, not to the BS.

A BS who keeps feeling that the betrayal was done to them is stuck in a Drama Triangle, and that's a disservice to themself. Staying out of a DT is what lets a BS recognize how good a candidate for their BS is. I agree: unremorseful WSes can't R. Narcissists can't R - among other things, they really do believe their BS is the problem when the problem is in themself.

The vast majority of us can give and take. The vast majority of us can make choices that do good, and choices that don't. A WS can choose to emphasize doing a right thing over doing a wrong thing. A betrayer can decide to become a good partner.

That's why, IMO, some of us say R is possible for virtually everyone. But being possible doesn't mean any BS has an obligation to start R. Every BS can choose D. BSes with remorseful WSes can choose R, but they do not have to.

But BSes who come here thinking their only option is D should be informed that they have pother options, too.

Since I believe knowing what options are open is a Good Thing, informing a new BS that they have multiple options is not being pro-R. It's being pro-Betrayed Spouse.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:06 PM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

The vast majority of us can give and take. The vast majority of us can make choices that do good, and choices that don't. A WS can choose to emphasize doing a right thing over doing a wrong thing. A betrayer can decide to become a good partner.

That's why, IMO, some of us say R is possible for virtually everyone. But being possible doesn't mean any BS has an obligation to start R. Every BS can choose D. BSes with remorseful WSes can choose R, but they do not have to.

The idea that R is possible for virtually everyone might be true in theory but less so in practice.

The problem with this logic is that BSs often get roped into thinking that just because someone can change (theoretically) that they will change... they just wait long enough and try hard enough for their WS to "get it."

It also ignores the fact that infidelity doesn't happen in a vacuum; it's usually part of a larger pattern selfishness, self-centeredness, and abuse.

In short, possible ≠ probable.

But BSes who come here thinking their only option is D should be informed that they have other options, too.

Again, this almost never happens. Those who go straight to D without second-guessing their decision don't come to SI. The one that did-- "famous" BH who told his WW before marriage that he would never forgive infidelity, filed immediately after Dday, and never looked back-- was writing fiction.

99% of people who come to SI come with the intention of saving their marriage and almost all of the advice that's given-- even by outspoken "hard-asses" like myself, Hellfire, and WBFA-- is sensitive to that fact. I've rarely seen anyone tell a BS the only option was D, except in the most extreme circumstances (violence, criminal activity, etc).

I don’t disagree with blue. Just wanted to add if we are talking about what isn’t helpful to bs is thinking we know the outcome as we keep telling the bs to let go of the outcome. We are anonymous people on the internet, we have no idea what the outcome should be in many cases.

The ws is not going to change overnight. They aren’t even likely to be remorseful at first because they have spent a great deal of time dedicating themselves to selfish and toxic behaviors and justifying it.

I think most bs aren’t ready to make a decision on day one. I think that’s okay if we keep turning them towards thinking about what they need, empowering them towards their own healing, etc. the more they do that the more they will advocate for themselves and eventually the relationship will either fall away because the bs’s healing has helped them focus on getting something they really want and it becomes apparent the ws is not going to provide it. Or the ws will have earned their way back into a situation where consideration towards reconciling could be looked at.

I think it’s the most healthy to frame it as the first 6-12 months is recovery. Not reconciliation. If of course the ws is no longer in an active affair and is making reasonable efforts to work on themselves at the same time.

Sometimes it’s easy to see the ws is nowhere near putting in any work. But if they are working, it’s harder to see the results immediately. Failing is part of the process. (Not talking about breaking NC or not meeting basic agreements of a couple recovering)

I don’t advocate for either anymore because talking about the outcome of the marriage is just increasing the anxiety and uncertainty and if we are not careful we are putting pressure on a very distressed bs at the hardest moments of their life. One of the reasons I left this site after my husbands affair is because I couldn’t deal with the pressure and scrutiny. I wanted to give it time and evaluate without all the extra voices.

I think the most we can get each side to focus on their healing rather than the outcome of the relationship is the most constructive. Of course when they are married to a schlub who does nothing to make repairs it’s sometimes best to encourage the bs to get out so they have an environment to heal in.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:49 PM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

I actually don’t think the initial response is reconciliation or divorce. I think it tends to be an attempt to reclaim what we sense has been "stolen" or taken from us. I think that if left unaided or unguided from sites like this, the majority of those impacted by infidelity try to get their WS back and/or payback.

It’s not the same as reconciling. Far from it – simply having your spouse stop sharing genitals with others isn’t affair recovery. I recall a number of posters who did that – got their spouse back – and since they didn’t divorce, they think they must have reconciled. Generally, there is either a relapse, the affair starts again, or at some point the BS seems to realize that maybe they really don’t want what they got back...

We often see that need to reclaim possession in the "file for D and have him/her served ASAP" tangent also. The advice if often flavored with tips on how to make the biggest impact: have her served at work, throw out his clothes, change the locks and so on, go for full custody, hide the funds... Advice that really doesn’t work or really give any benefit to the outcome. It focuses more on getting payback – and thereby somehow reclaiming something we think is "ours". When I suggest a poster divorces (and I guess I do that about as evenly as I offer R advice) I prefer to tell them to learn the law, get a good attorney and start the process. Accept the finality of divorce.

I think our "task" on this site is to get people out of infidelity. For most, the first steps on that path are the same irrespective of the eventual path in a fork a distance down that path. Be that the path of divorce or the path of reconciliation.

I think the real infidelity-unicorns are the WS that are capable of truly reconcile at d-day. Experience shows that most want to, but mainly through the channel of promising to end the affair, demanding nobody be told and hysterical bonding. I think that both the WS and the BS need to walk their separate paths after d-day, and at some point, the WS might ask if they can walk the same path as the betrayed spouse. It’s then up to the betrayed spouse if they want to reconcile or divorce, and if the WS follows through with the required actions then they might have a shot.
The big danger IMHO is when the WS does not follow along, and the BS doesn’t realize or accept that they are at the fork where they should decide if they take the R path or the D path. If the WS doesn’t follow along... the R path is blocked and shouldn’t be attempted.

Of course, the BS can decide right away that D is their best option, and this site supports those that do so. When a poster shares his story and tells us right away they are divorcing they tend to get support in doing so. I don’t really see many urging them to reconsider and give R a shot. At least not with the same frequency as those that express a wish to reconcile are advised to grow a pair or man up.

I don’t see the pro-r stance some claim this site has. What this site acknowledges is simply that reconciliation is possible, and that some couples manage it. Not all, probably not a majority and maybe even a very small percentage. But still... some. That is evident in the number of members here who state they have reconciled – including the founders of the site. I personally have met more reconciled couples than I have unicorns.

I call it recovery, because it is personal recovery. The bs is going thorough the stages of grief. The ws is in their own thing. Personal recovery not really affair recovery. I think we are saying the same thing, some period of healing must occur in most cases before thoughts of reconciliation are put to the forefront.

I don’t mind what others want to say or what their stance is because they are all balancing views. I don’t like when shames the bs under the guise of "let’s get them mad so they will stick up for themselves". They have to reach that point themselves. There are five stages of grief and people oscillate between them for a long time. Yes anger is a stronger or better feeling emotion sometimes, but I think often Pushing them towards anger when they aren’t ready often ends up causing them to defend their ws because like you said they are still in a spot where either they want what was stolen, or even as often, it’s just purely fear combined with roller coaster feelings.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:18 AM, Wednesday, July 24th]

sisoon

That's why, IMO, some of us say R is possible for virtually everyone. But being possible doesn't mean any BS has an obligation to start R. Every BS can choose D. BSes with remorseful WSes can choose R, but they do not have to.

My thoughts here are a bit along the same path as BluerThanBlue concerning possibility ≠ probability but Id make a finer point of this. That point is not the probabilty of successful R, but rather, if you do attempt R, what is the long term probability that you can achieve and maintain an acceptable level of joy, happiness and fulfillment personally in the relationship. This is the crux imo. There are many attempted Rs described on this site, and frankly, many are gut wrenching enough to have made me consider D as more palatable if I were reading them as a newly betrayed H. There is a haunting post from a WW wife in this site who was, of her BHs admission, working very very hard to R with her BH. Years into their effort, she sa8d sometging very telling (to me at least). She said that he would smile again, but that the smile no longer reached his eyes,the window of the soul. It was so impactful to her that she asked him again if he wanted a divorce, and he said no. She also admitted tbat if they hadnt had young children still in the home, things may have gone far differently.

I guess what Im getting at here is that I dont have an issue with pointing out to a newly betrayed spouse that either path may be a legitimate option, but partucularly in the case of attempted R, to count the cost. Once youve stepped back, taken stock, and to your earlier point, invested in yourself first, assess what the probability is that you can reach an acceptable level of happiness and fulfillment in the relationship. I know this is highly subjective and takes a heightened ability for self awareness (i.e. know thyself), but to me this is the critical question. Even more daunting is that, as has been discussed here and on other sites, R is the gruelling work of years to reach majorative personal healing and reconciliation. Not for the faint of heart.

In my case, we were never truly R'd and it took a lot out of me. The personal cost was high, but again, I admit that I made many mistakes that I now advise newly betryeds to avoid. In the end, tbe cost was too great and I never reached that acceptable level of fulfillment and happiness in tbe marriage. Not only did my smile not reach my eyes, I didnt smile much at all (not the case now btw....I laugh and smile with my spouse a lot, most days actually and its wonderful).

Anyway, those are my somewhat meandering thoughts on tbe critical question of R or D for the newly betrayed and again, I return to what most advise...take. your. time. The same BH in the thread I referenced made a great point when he said (paraphrasing here) "If she can take xyz amount of time to betray me, I damn well can take all the time I need to get myself in order and determine the best next steps for my life"

Damn straight.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 3:42 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]

BluerThanBlue

Again, this almost never happens. Those who go straight to D without second-guessing their decision don't come to SI. The one that did-- "famous" BH who told his WW before marriage that he would never forgive infidelity, filed immediately after Dday, and never looked back-- was writing fiction.

I have read multiple threads where the BS moved immediately or very quickly to D. Both BHs and BWs. I will concede that many more come here desperate to "put it back together". Alas, if SI had been around in that day, I probably would have been one of them. That was the state I was in. Oh, young DT....

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 4:54 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]

DobleTraicion there are so many things in your post that I could have written and I have actually said to other betrayed spouses in real life.

That point is not the probabilty of successful R, but rather, if you do attempt R, what is the long term probability that you can achieve and maintain an acceptable level of joy, happiness and fulfillment personally in the relationship. This is the crux imo. There are many attempted Rs described on this site, and frankly, many are gut wrenching enough to have made me consider D as more palatable if I were reading them as a newly betrayed H.

This is why I say that D should be the FIRST option considered, not the ONLY option, but the first. The thing that most WS can not possibly understand, no matter how remorseful they are, is the Herculean, superhuman effort that it takes to even ATTEMPT to navigate R for a BS.

The BS has to attempt to process emotions that they'd rather run from. Hurt, anger, betrayal, disappointment, disgust, frustration, resentment, sadness, pain, fear, just to get an attempt at R off the ground. A BS is exhausted as soon as the work starts.

They have to do this in the presence of the person who they believed would not hurt them in this way...the person who they vowed to spend the rest of their days with, and care for until life ceased...at a time when they have recently discovered that this same person had hurt them and betrayed them in the most calloused manner imaginable.

There is a haunting post from a WW wife in this site who was, of her BHs admission, working very very hard to R with her BH. Years into their effort, she sa8d sometging very telling (to me at least). She said that he would smile again, but that the smile no longer reached his eyes,the window of the soul.

The truth is that even with a superhuman effort on the behalf of the BS, AND a truly remorseful WS, AND a true and loving desire to build a new marriage (cause the old one is dead)...there still is a high likelihood that the BS will NEVER fully recover. I now understand the effect that even this small issue can have on a righteous WS who now realizes that what they did has fundamentally changed the person that they loved and that can only ADD to the shame and guilt that they already are struggling with. There is NO guarantee that even with work and love and counseling that R even works and that is just as scary a proposition as the "finality" of D.

I guess what Im getting at here is that I dont have an issue with pointing out to a newly betrayed spouse that either path may be a legitimate option, but partucularly in the case of attempted R, to count the cost. Once youve stepped back, taken stock, and to your earlier point, invested in yourself first, assess what the probability is that you can reach an acceptable level of happiness and fulfillment in the relationship.

Here is the crux of the issue.
A newly betrayed spouse, who is living in a completely distorted reality, not knowing who the person is that they have dedicated their life to..not knowing what has happened to their bombed out and depleted existence, not sure which way is up and which way is down....CANNOT POSSIBLY be able to count the cost of what R takes.
They can not count it years out. A new BS wants to get in a fix things without knowing what needs to be fixed and how much it costs. Most of us have had things in life we desperately wanted but could not afford the cost to obtain. R is no different.

The cost of R has to be paid initially by the WS for it to be successful. That WS has to decide in themselves that they are willing to pay the cost, no matter what it is, knowing that it could be a losing proposition. It has to be that a WS is willing to push all their chips in to the middle of the table and make the gamble. If that WS is not willing to go all in soon then it is probably best for the BS to walk away from the table because they have already lost more than they can afford to lose.

There are many attempted Rs described on this site, and frankly, many are gut wrenching enough to have made me consider D as more palatable if I were reading them as a newly betrayed H.

This is precisely what happened to me. While I was petrified of divorce, and I did legitimately desire a repaired relationship with my STBXW, I read so many cries of anguish from many years down the road from me and I knew that I didn’t want THAT. And a healthy fear of that outcome absolutely influenced my journey. Once I was convinced that the overwhelming probability of my journey within the marriage would go that direction, the fear of a lifetime in that state, and a hope for something better, led me out of my marriage.

I believe each and every betrayed has to walk that journey for themselves, though. Some seem less stubborn than me, but everyone has to figure out their own calculation of the benefits and hazards and the odds of both and play their hand.

I do find it interesting in these kinds of discussions that most, after we’ve recovered, say that we’ll never tolerate betrayal again in our lives, and I would be willing to wager that that conviction is much stronger than a pre-betrayed person saying the same thing. Does that imply that we’ve learned that it wasn’t worth it? Genuine question, I’m really curious how others might see this dichotomy.

I do find it interesting in these kinds of discussions that most, after we’ve recovered, say that we’ll never tolerate betrayal again in our lives, and I would be willing to wager that that conviction is much stronger than a pre-betrayed person saying the same thing. Does that imply that we’ve learned that it wasn’t worth it? Genuine question, I’m really curious how others might see this dichotomy.

I know now that I would never tolerate betrayal again. I know what it costs to R and I know now what it is like to D. While it is amazing to see those BS's on this site that have truly overcome and say they are now proud of their M and R I just don't think I am cut out for it. For myself I learned that R wasn't worth it regardless if WS was remorseful or not. It took far too long to heal whist living with the perpetrator and I myself hold onto to wrongs and reluctance to forgive. It's just not in my makeup.

Does that imply that we’ve learned that it wasn’t worth it? Genuine question, I’m really curious how others might see this dichotomy.

Great question, I suspect it’s highly individual to a certain extent.

For me, I think h and I gave each other this one last chance. I just suspect that a second time for either of us would just be a telling response that it’s going to be a pattern. And we have already lost years of our lives to that searing, never ending pain. I am certain it hurt is in most every category of our lives- including financially. We didn’t grow our investments during that time, we had trouble focusing on work, being able to focus on family members and friends. So for one of us to disregard that, I just think that is endgame.

As far as future partners- should I ever have one, which I sort of doubt- I am thinking it’s unlikely I would continue either. Grieving and going through a break up or divorce does come with assurances that you wouldn’t have otherwise. It’s absolutely a gamble that the ws is going to do the digging and repair. I am just older now and having lost so much of my life to this crap I just don’t think I could be bothered. With my husband there was more reasons- history and family, and long standing friendship and love. I don’t have time to build that with another person and without those anchors I think it would be easier to just let it go rather than try and preserve it.

I am pretty sure in either case I would file the very next day.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:25 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]

hikingout

The ws is not going to change overnight. They aren’t even likely to be remorseful at first because they have spent a great deal of time dedicating themselves to selfish and toxic behaviors and justifying it.

I think most bs aren’t ready to make a decision on day one. I think that’s okay if we keep turning them towards thinking about what they need, empowering them towards their own healing, etc. the more they do that the more they will advocate for themselves and eventually the relationship will either fall away because the bs’s healing has helped them focus on getting something they really want and it becomes apparent the ws is not going to provide it. Or the ws will have earned their way back into a situation where consideration towards reconciling could be looked at.

I think it’s the most healthy to frame it as the first 6-12 months is recovery. Not reconciliation. If of course the ws is no longer in an active affair and is making reasonable efforts to work on themselves at the same time.

Sometimes it’s easy to see the ws is nowhere near putting in any work. But if they are working, it’s harder to see the results immediately. Failing is part of the process. (Not talking about breaking NC or not meeting basic agreements of a couple recovering)

I don’t advocate for either anymore because talking about the outcome of the marriage is just increasing the anxiety and uncertainty and if we are not careful we are putting pressure on a very distressed bs at the hardest moments of their life. One of the reasons I left this site after my husbands affair is because I couldn’t deal with the pressure and scrutiny. I wanted to give it time and evaluate without all the extra voices.

I think the most we can get each side to focus on their healing rather than the outcome of the relationship is the most constructive. Of course when they are married to a schlub who does nothing to make repairs it’s sometimes best to encourage the bs to get out so they have an environment to heal in.

This really resonated with me. It is, in my mind, a very realistic assessment of what can be expected,especially of the BS, early on and by early on, I include the 6-12 month time frame you referenced to just basically recover. The emotional mealstrom post Dday is so disorienting I honestly dont know what to liken it to outside of the sudden loss of life of a loved one. This synopsis of survival early on really puts thing into perspective and, I think, lightens the mental emotional load of the betrayed. It recalibrates expectations.

The challenge, of course, is that with all of the adrenaline and cortisol flooding the betrayeds system, it sets your heels on fire to move, to act, to respond, to lash out, to decide all while being in what may well be the most emotionally compromised position of your life. Bad combo. My heart rate is up just typing this.

So, thank you for this. Ive posted before that Ive directed couples and individuals trying desperately to survive infidelity to your posts among others here and they have found them helpful, as have I.

Bigger

I think our "task" on this site is to get people out of infidelity. For most, the first steps on that path are the same irrespective of the eventual path in a fork a distance down that path. Be that the path of divorce or the path of reconciliation.

I think the real infidelity-unicorns are the WS that are capable of truly reconcile at d-day. Experience shows that most want to, but mainly through the channel of promising to end the affair, demanding nobody be told and hysterical bonding. I think that both the WS and the BS need to walk their separate paths after d-day, and at some point, the WS might ask if they can walk the same path as the betrayed spouse. It’s then up to the betrayed spouse if they want to reconcile or divorce, and if the WS follows through with the required actions then they might have a shot.
The big danger IMHO is when the WS does not follow along, and the BS doesn’t realize or accept that they are at the fork where they should decide if they take the R path or the D path. If the WS doesn’t follow along... the R path is blocked and shouldn’t be attempted.

Of course, the BS can decide right away that D is their best option, and this site supports those that do so. 

Thank you for contributimg. As usual, balanced and wise input. I really really appreciated the word picture (my bolded emphasis) of walking their own path. That the BS needs to walk their own path of healing and self determination and if the WS cares to, they can follow the same path if the BS allows. Sadly your second scenario is what I fell prey to and it cost me dearly. What is that old saying?...."He that thinketh he leadeth and no one followeth, only taketh a walk."

As to the site leaning one way or the other, R or D, I really dont speak to it other than to say that I try to process every posters input as impartially as possible and condence/concentrate the collective wisdom of this place into usable intel in the form of general principles and precepts. Ive said so many times that I wish I had a resource like this when traversing my own marital avalanche aftermath.

For me, I think h and I gave each other this one last chance. I just suspect that a second time for either of us would just be a telling response that it’s going to be a pattern.

💯

As far as future partners- should I ever have one, which I sort of doubt- I am thinking it’s unlikely I would continue either. Grieving and going through a break up or divorce does come with assurances that you wouldn’t have otherwise. It’s absolutely a gamble that the ws is going to do the digging and repair. I am just older now and having lost so much of my life to this crap I just don’t think I could be bothered. With my husband there was more reasons- history and family, and long standing friendship and love. I don’t have time to build that with another person and without those anchors I think it would be easier to just let it go rather than try and preserve it.

This is the sticky part, isn’t it? I think I again totally agree with you, but that seems to mean that either
1) our experience has shown us that the tribulation of trying to R isn’t worth the prize on the other end when factoring in the higher than we’d like probability of failure

Or

2) we are no longer the same type of people after we have recovered. Something is permenantly changed in this respect and we are sensitized to betrayal and will protect ourselves from cumulative damage. So maybe the person first going thru it has a different perspective entirely and that is why we would give advice that we say we are unlikely to take ourselves in the future?

Again, really not trying to call anyone out here, I can see where this could sound like me calling someone a hypocrite and that is not my intent. I’m genuinely intrigued by this question. I hope it is line enough to OP’s intent to fit here, if not I can happily take it elsewhere, DT.

InkHulk

I hope it is line enough to OP’s intent to fit here, if not I can happily take it elsewhere, DT.

Please dont you go anywhere. My intent from the start was to begin a thread dealing with my unhelpful thoughts and behaviors as a BH,especially early on and, as stated, leave something behind for a newly BS. It is also therapeutic for me personally.

This thread has developed into quite a rich brew of perspectives and it is sparking a lot of thoughts (just finished my dark roast iced coffee ). Please continue.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 8:48 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]