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It's all on the table now

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 BRBLife (original poster new member #75288) posted at 3:55 PM on Wednesday, November 6th, 2024

I'm not sure what I've shared here and what is news, so if this is disjointed or confusing, I apologize.
This past year things have been increasingly bad. I was continuing to be the dependable doormat, taking care of everything, including his grieving sister, planning and executing bil's memorial, meanwhile his face was in his phone 24/7, he ignored me unless it suited him, and he continued to up his acceptance and encouragement of flirting with M, the family friend on his side. I think you knew all this. His porn and alcohol addiction was extreme. I had been promised years prior that both would change, but empty promises. So i spent the summer diving into his timeline, which I stumbled upon while looking through his history and google account. 9 years of looking at every single day showed me that he had many times spent parts of days or series of days off and on at a number of local hotels. That is what triggered me to just look through every single day for 9 years. It took most of the summer. As time went on and I discovered more things I could not explain, behaviors while out on work trips staying at hotels that were not his, being out til all hours of the night, etc.... At one point I found that he was visiting an apartment about 30 minutes from here that we have never known anyone living there. Over the course of a month back in 2017 he was there 3 days for hours at a time. He visited a lawyer on 2 occasions about 45 minutes from here while I was out of town back in 2020. Plenty more, but you get the picture. I created a written timeline, laid it all out to my adult kids, then to my siblings. Finally I confronted him but decided to only get into the current issues, the porn, his behavior with M, his addictions to both alcohol and creepy online content and behavior and mainly what had been going on in the last 4 years from my discovery of hpv in my mouth (he now is trying to claim the doctors were wrong since I never got the definitive test results after they were lost). I left the timeline info out of it because honestly it was so disturbing I was worried he would lose his shit at being found out, become suicidal or aggressive, plus I needed to try to get myself to a more stable position both financially and literally.
I opened a bank account and kept it private. I consulted with a lawyer before the original confrontation, but in late august I had confrontation #1. I asked him to leave, to give me time to process and heal. He did not want to leave. Said it might mean he wouldn't be allowed back. I let him stay a few more days but then couldn't take it anymore and asked him firmly to leave. He went to his sister's house. A few days later after not hearing a word from the sister, who had become a very close friend of mine for the past 10 or so years, I asked if I could stop by and talk. She was home and he was at work. Eventually I started the conversation, asking her what she knew and what he had told her. In true form he had told her that a few months ago he had looked at porn and I had found out and kicked him out. Like seriously.
I filled her in on the truth of the matter, that he was STILL looking at porn at multiple different sites, multiple times a day, plus looking up "hot" "nude" "naked" pics of literally any woman who crossed the tv screen while I sat next to him, every single day, all day long. Add in the alcohol, which has been a HUGE issue for decades and I told her he was flat out lying about some things and grossly minimized most of it. We talked about the HPV, about M, she thinks M is totally awesome, said that is just how she is as far as flirting, when I questioned why she doesn't behave like that with ANY of the other men in our circles, INCLUDING the one single guy, she had no answer. When I told her M had sent a private meme to my husband in messenger which was a joke about anal sex, her face went white. Long story short, she seemed like she understood my side, gets that he rarely if ever takes responsibility and hides guilt in everything and I felt good about the talk. Turns out not to be true, as more recently he told me she told him to watch out for me, that I was planning something.

The next week I had planned to take a short trip to to visit with my sister inlaw, married to my husband's brother. We have a lot in common, get along great and I wanted her perspective as a woman married to the brother of my husband. Even though they didn't grow up together, she gets it. The visit went great, we both got to vent about a lot of things and she was supportive and helpful. I told her the same things I had told my husband's sister, which is to say I didn't get into the timeline from years back.
He had come home while I was gone to take care of the pets, and when I got back he didn't leave. I could feel myself sliding back into what I call the "lukewarm soup" of routine. I was noticing that SIL and niece both were consistently interacting with M's enormous amount of social media posts, big time, meanwhile my occasional posts were ignored. I started to sense what I expected, which was that I would be the bad guy. Whatever.
He started therapy but was minimizing, of course. The therapist recommended 1 session every two weeks, which to me was hugely too little. He made it seem like he drank a little too much and looked at some porn once in a while and that was it. I was distancing myself, doing what I needed to, took a couple more short trips to see family. I started using I instead of WE and he noticed. He confronted me, somewhat angry. We had several other sporadic confrontations. At one point he said "this isn't working" and I said what isn't and he said, this relationship. I said okay, we literally just started this process less than 2 months ago and you have done the bare minimum and I'm supposed to just get over it all and shut the fuck up right?
So somehow we get into a better space, or I'm just accepting the routine again. He had been asking me why my siblings were behaving weird around him and why the kids were behaving strangely. But honestly, his relationship with our kids has been pitiful for many years now. He doesn't reach out, doesn't accept anyone having different opinions or views, and I have always said why do I and the kids get the worst of you? Meanwhile he is "saint" to everyone else to their faces.
So my kids had a conversation with me and said mom, when are you going to finally tell him the rest of the timeline? Being honest, I knew this would be the hardest one of all, so I had been avoiding most definitely. I agreed and had that conversation november 1st. A rough day to say the least.
He was extremely defensive, angry, and had no good explanation for any of it. Had no idea who lived in that apartment, how should he remember anything that long ago, never been to that lawyer's office, and accused me of WANTING to find dirt on him in order to look like the good guy and leave like I always planned. He said he was leaving. I said no, I will leave if you want me to. No he says, but also, why did you agree to leave so quickly? Suspicious of ME?
We go to bed, I say good night, he says nothing. Next morning he has to go to SIL's to oversee a contactor for her. When he comes home he gets his suitcase and starts packing. I ask, are you moving out? He says no, I just can't be here right now. Then says, see ya (literally) and left. That was the last I have heard from him. For our kids birthdays he texted them, saying he wanted them to hear "his side". They both told him their birthday was not the time. Then he asked about plans, they told him and he said have fun.
So, I'm here at the house. My kids and their significant others are being so supportive and encouraging to me.
Quite honestly I expect papers from him at any time, especially given his silence and running. It won't matter because of the state I live in. He basically accused me of snooping on him, but when I pointed out I had NEVER needed to do so or worried before and I was 100% justified in digging after his behavior, he had nothing. So no defense. Nothing legitimate anyway, one lame attempt at explaining a super weird few days years back. Basically trying to say it is normal to do interviews and training in hotel rooms, specifically hotels that do not have conference rooms and aren't typically used for training. The rest of the written timeline he took with him to his sister's and I haven't heard a peep. This to me damns him even more. Instead of fighting for me, explaining in any way he could, he makes me the bad guy and runs.
I've since been told by SIL that he group texted all of his siblings to tell them we were having problems and he was at his sister's house and if they wanted to hear his side of the story to let him know.
So that's my dumpster fire of a life at the moment. I love my kids so much though and this is only making our relationships so much better.
Thanks for letting me dump. I'm not crazy. I'm not the bad guy. I've done nothing wrong. I keep saying that like a mantra.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2020
id 8853154
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:19 PM on Wednesday, November 6th, 2024

Very gently, what is the point of waiting for your H to file for D? What's keeping you from filing?

I'm all for R when both partner will do the work. Your H shows no evidence of making any changes. I feel sorry for him - I don't believe an addict's life is pleasant. But he's making your life pretty awful, too, and you can extricate yourself. But you have to take action to do that. Why wait form him to hide assets? What do your kids need from you that you can't provide if you were single?

What's keeping you from acting in your best interests?

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30475   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8853157
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 4:44 PM on Wednesday, November 6th, 2024

One of the morals of this story is that blood is indeed thicker than water. Most people will land by the side of their family member, even if they're a terrible WS. Do not confide anything to your WS's family member that you wouldn't want the WS to hear, and never think that they'll be on your side just because you did nothing wrong. They most likely won't.

I used to be much closer to my MIL than my H was. On DDay, she was furious with him and was offering support to me, but the next day she was inviting him to live with her if he needed a place to stay and telling me she didn't want to be in the middle. He stayed with her several weeks and she loved having her little boy back with her. So much so that the night he and I met and were talking and deciding to R, she was blowing up his phone. She knew he was with me. Our kids were at her house and she was fussing at him that he needed to come be with them, that they needed their dad. At TWO AM when they were SLEEPING. And when their father was trying to repair their FAMILY. I've never forgiven that. It was a good lesson.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1544   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8853160
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Fracturedfool ( new member #84734) posted at 9:39 PM on Wednesday, November 6th, 2024

The blood is thicker than water thing really hits home with me. I want to gag when I think how he never really bothered with his sister for 43 years since we moved 3000 miles away except for birthday or Christmas cards and calls. Then they had a big blowup when he went to his mother’s funeral 13 years ago. All of a sudden he wants to go make up with her and flies down there. I found out the real reason was to contact his old AP from 43 years ago (her best friend) and the rest is history. His sister and her daughter think I’m the terrible bitch keeping him from his dear friend barf . God knows what lies he told them as I’ve never given them a reason to hate me. You can’t win the battle if they are all in the same fog as he is. Best to cut them out of your life as they have shown you their true colours.

Me BS 70 WH 72 M 42 yrs Together 52 yrs D days 1976-1979 New D day Jan 1 2023

Should have believed what he was the first time

posts: 26   ·   registered: Apr. 14th, 2024   ·   location: Canadian Prairies
id 8853181
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 BRBLife (original poster new member #75288) posted at 10:38 PM on Wednesday, November 6th, 2024

As far as why wait to file (and may I just say how very much I love responses that include the word "gently", so appreciate that), I think mentally i want to feel like I did everything humanly possible to save this marriage, right down to making him be the one to file. I want to walk away with a record that says "she tried her hardest". I might lose some money if he decides to play dirty and take $ out of our account, but he will 100% lose the respect and relationships with his kids, grandkids and likely some of his family as well.

As for the blood and water thing, this is SO very true. The first 15 years of our marriage my SIL and MIL hated me, for no discernable reason. They didn't come to bday parties for the kids and treated us like last choice, including my husband. So many times I pushed the relationship when he wanted to cut them off. I am literally the only reason he stayed in contact with them.

Eventually MIL told me she didn't like me for so long, but she realized what a good wife and mother I had been all these years. Best Christmas present ever. I started to hear I love you from her and started to get close to SIL. MIL passed and we all grew closer. I can't say I'm surprised that SIL isn't the best friend I thought she was. She was my friend to party with I guess. As long as I hosted and busted ass and got drunk with her, all good. Have a serious problem, be in complete desperation and bye, she is with him. Such a huge disappointment. Not surprised at all, but still.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2020
id 8853187
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:51 PM on Thursday, November 7th, 2024

OK ... member to member - not so gently, I recommend looking more deeply into your motivation for letting your H keep you committed to him when he's so obviously not committed to you.

You owe it to yourself to make sure you're not the frog crossing a river doing a 'favor' for a scorpion. If you're not familiar with that fable, just search the web on scorpion and frog fable.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30475   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8853239
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 BRBLife (original poster new member #75288) posted at 1:06 PM on Friday, November 8th, 2024

I honestly don't know my motivation. I know I tend to stay in situations where I am not valued and appreciated. I tend to try to stay to "prove" myself. I'm having an incredibly hard time this morning because I found he is telling his "side" as that he was only looking at porn occasionally because we were only having sex 2 or 3 times a year. This isn't true, not even in this last year which was the worst of our relationship, and even that was mainly because he likely has porn induced erectile dysfunction. But, despite that, this has sent me into something of a spiral. Whether he knows it or not, this is a sore spot for me, to be seen as frigid, sexless and boring. I know this is supremely unfair, and realistically doesn't even matter in regards to his behavior. Was our sex life in the toilet? Hell yes, had been swirling for many years, mainly due to his alcohol abuse. You can only be number 2 to alcohol so long before it grinds even someone like me down. I'm rambling. So why is him saying this and me seeing his plans to go to a friendsgiving without me, with his sister, niece and of course, family friend M attending truly throwing me down a rabbit hole? I'm not in therapy, but I sure as shit need it. I stayed in a family business for decades because they needed me and I was good at it. I was unappreciated, made little money and left it finally after 30 years with nothing to show for it. I'm a professional doormat apparently.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2020
id 8853295
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 3:47 PM on Friday, November 8th, 2024

You're doing the equivalent of lighting yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm.

I think if you asked somebody who knew the details that you'd find out that you have done all that you can do to keep things together. (My oldest told me that he couldn't believe I stayed M for so long. Your kids see.)

One thing I did to help my self-esteem was to do some I AM affirmations. I looked at some on YouTube and tried a few. There was one that made me ugly cry, and figured that was the one I needed. Did the affirmations every day for a couple of months and it helped me to change how I feel about myself.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3933   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8853357
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:20 PM on Friday, November 8th, 2024

I honestly don't know my motivation. I know I tend to stay in situations where I am not valued and appreciated.

Those words almost brought tears to my eyes.

Get thee to a good IC. Start looking today.

You're valued and appreciated here. Really. You can expand that to find people who value and appreciate you IRL ... in fact, it looks as if your kids already do.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30475   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8853372
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 BRBLife (original poster new member #75288) posted at 1:46 PM on Sunday, November 10th, 2024

You're right. I know I need someone objective that can help me wade through this mess and through the past.
My son met with him for several hours, letting him talk. He essentially said he would do anything to save our marriage, then in the next breath said he would not be scrutinized and go over the timeline point by point. My son said it went as he expected, no accountability, blaming me, etc....

2 days ago he messaged me after complete no contact for almost a week and asked to meet up to talk. I agreed and we met up at a park. He arrived with his angry face on. There has been no sadness (well, ONE meeting months ago I saw sadness and almost tears), no empathy, no love, nothing. He asked if I still wanted to even try. I said I wouldn't be here if I didn't. He asked if I would go to couples counseling. I said yes, but there were some things that needed addressing before I would agree, namely going through the timeline and talking about what each instance could have been. This pissed him off. He said if we went to counseling I would have to share responsibility for what our marriage has become. I said how is it my fault that you have been porn and alcohol addicted? He says, when we only have sex 2 or 3 times a year for years, what am I supposed to do? Well, not make creepy handwritten lists of the women you plan to ogle, not comment on their naked pics asking for their name for starters.
He said that I had been hunting for a "gotcha" moment and that is what I had been hoping for all along. Yeah, I HOPED for this shit. I said, given what you have put me through the past year, the unexplainable HPV 4 years ago, your behavior, I had every right to dig. What I found was extremely suspicious. I asked him to put himself in my place and imagine what he would have done? I don't think he has the capacity.

He said if he explained it all, what then? Would I then believe him and trust him? I said it would be a start. He took that as no. Asked how many times I was going to keep blindsiding him, making him think we were moving forward, only to be surprised with more accusations. I said I told you 2 months ago that broken trust won't be rebuilt in weeks or months, and here we are only 2 months past the first confrontation, and again you are pissed that I "keep bringing shit up". I said we have established that you have a history of lying to me, so why is it hard to understand that I want answers to this timeline? He stood up, said we are DONE, just have to figure out what to do with the house. We are done. Then he drove away.

I stayed there for a while losing my shit sitting in the car. I then texted him about 30 minutes later basically saying that I was not walking away from this and legitimately couldnt' believe 35 years worth of relationship he would be willing to just flush away. That his look of anger and almost hate was not what I expected. Basically poured my heart out. I still haven't gotten a response. Our daughter is meeting with him today, and she does not plan to play nice at all.

This morning I am doubting myself. One of the most suspicious things I found was that he had visited an apartment on 3 occasions in 2016, and he swears he has never been there. AFter searching his facebook past events, I saw that we were at a birthday party at his niece's house on the exact same day, exact same time, about 2 blocks from this apartment. So I now think those 3 occasions were all really his niece's house and the google location wasn't exactly accurate. But then again, if he cared at all about saving this marriage, about reassuring me, couldn't he have done a little searching himself and said so? Part of what I texted him was that my HOPE and my reason for digging so thoroughly was that when confronted he would laugh, explain it all and then I'd realize I was a victim of my own wild imagination. When he got defensive and angry and left, refusing to even go over the dates, times and places, that hope left the building.
Not sure what I'm looking for here, but this has been a couple days from hell. The one thing that makes me know I'm not a victim of wild imagination is remembering that before I EVER confronted him after the HPV, I found his history on his phone was searching for "spy apps", in other words I was behaving weirdly and his first thought is to check to see if I've put spying apps on his phone.
I know, I know, counseling. I know I have to look into it.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2020
id 8853489
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 4:58 PM on Sunday, November 10th, 2024

You may have been wrong in a few points (location) BUT that does not excuse the state of your marriage, explain his anger and addictions and his general treatment of you & kids.

Take a step back. Try to be objective.

You got a disease from him
He has no respect for monogamy
He lies and cheats (intent is cheating in my opinion in that he planned to physically cheat)


Now if this were your daughter or sister or cousin or friend, and it’s been years of this situation— what would you tell her to do?

Stop trying to prove you are right. At least to him. He’s a spoiled adult who will not take accountability or accept he has a role in any of it.

The ONLY was a marriage will work is if you let him say and do whatever he wants and you never ask questions.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 11 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 14242   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8853499
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