SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Here I am posting again.

I just need to vent, and write things down. We are still bumbling along but a few weekends ago my husband got it in his head that I shouldn’t be allowed to see people I told about the affair and his behaviour or as he says the people I destroyed him too. He told me if I really loved him, I would put him first. Anyway, this has got me seriously thinking about leaving just working my exit strategy. Even though he has actually been really nice and helpful.

However, I would like advice for me on how I can change. How much responsibility should we take for them cheating. For instance my husband says prior to the affair he didn’t feel loved by me. I really did love him just didn’t grow up with a lot of physical affection or being told I love you. I think I did a lot for him and that is how I showed him but I think this got less as we had more children and he didn’t help much with them at all.

He also really struggles with the fact that I don’t show physical affection, so don’t kiss him when he gets in or don’t tell him I love him or text him often. We had regular good sex so that wasn’t the problem, it was more the every day small displays. He is right about all of the above. I think part of this is my upbringing but weirdly I can do it with the kids. I don’t know how much of this is the affair and the damage it has done. I guess I am just wondering is it anger and fear that stops me. Did others behave like this? I think 1) I am angry and want to punish him still 2) I don’t want to be vulnerable or be hurt. 3) my religious upbringing maybe and hearing that physical stuff was bad and not having my parents display it. Maybe I just need to find a therapist.

Lemonpie, DO find a therapist. I started sessions last December for EMDR as regular therapy just hadn't cut it thus far. I can tell you that my weekly sessions the last 5 months have unearthed some unresolved youth issues as well as upbringing issues. My family were never I love you people either, but we are now. Be sure and find someone who specializes in trauma. If you are anything like I was after the affair, I felt unlovable and worthless, otherwise how could she have cheated on me. Took a couple months before I began to learn why I felt that way and that I actually had desirable attributes. I've learned that my wife actually has issues that need addressed. I am very comfortable leaving the marriage now if she chooses not to put in the effort. Actually, after my last Sundays session, I came home and immediately told my wife that if she didn't begin individual counseling then there was no hope for our marriage. She agreed to start.

As for your husband wanting you to stop seeing your friends, sorry, but that is bullshit. They were your support vessel when HE destroyed your life. Why would you ever abandon those who were there for you in a time of need. You may need to work on being more supportive and loving toward him but that is something that can be worked out in therapy. Anyway, that about all I can think of now as is a little before 3 am here and I'm trying to derail some intrusive thoughts of my own. I'm sure others will be along to chime in when they all wake up. LOL!

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 7:58 AM, Wednesday, May 22nd]

How much responsibility should we take for them cheating.

None. We’re not in Middle Ages, divorce is legal, betrayal is sleazy. I bet he didn’t discuss any of the "issues" leading him to cheating prior to dipping his penis in another woman either, it all came to light only after when he got caught…

Now please do yourself a favour and get some therapy. You’re in an abusive relationship and he’s turning up the heat slowly without you even noticing. Each time you post he’s isolated you a bit more… for the sake of your kids please do some therapy to help you exit this toxic, abusive relationship.

Ws here who is a massive people pleaser so what people think of me has always been so important.

During the A (before discovery) I got cross that my BS would tell people we were having troubles and later when it came out she told them same people I was having an A inc her family and neighbours.

Now whilst she hates having told them because of the embarrassment that it has caused I have no concern in that, she needed to speak to friends and family, she needs a place to vent after all I blooming caused this.

The first thing I did, apologise and accept my failings in the marriage and apologise for the pain i caused their daughter, sister, friend. It was important to me to do that because I painted her out to be crazy during those three months and I needed them to know it was nothing to do with her.

He sounds like he is being a bit of a Child and needs to get over it, it's not nice knowing people know you are a shitty human being who can betray your loved one etc and it really hurts thinking they could be behind doors talking about you however you are still with him and you are doing your best so he needs to step up and just accept it is out there and get ahead of it.

It's a really difficult journey if trying to R, I have failed at many hurdles and continue to test my BSs patience but none of this was her fault, I blamed her for some stupid stuff when trying to justify my A but it's not down to her never was and she did all those things for me that you described that he claims were so important!!

I get the feeling he just needs to wake up and stop blaming you or others and truly accept this was all on him.

Sorry if rambling, at work and people keep trying to pester me

Thank you Luna. So a few weekends ago, we had a big argument as I was seeing a friend that he has read my messages to at the time of the affair. Anyway, they had wanted to come to the house as a couple and pretend like nothing had happened for my sake. My husband put his foot down about it and then we came up with an alternative plan. When I was in the shower I had explained this to them and he then read my messages and got really angry that I was talking about him again. I delete most of them just had forgotten one. This led to him being really angry, telling me how I had destroyed his life and he had no one. I do feel sorry for him because I would hate to be in his situation. At other times, he will say he messed his own life up but I hear it a lot.

Anyway, when I got back this led to, you need to cut people out who know etc etc. to be fair to him, I went crazy and told so many random people. I also hate that our eldest child 7 knows. I failed to protect him from it. I was so caught up in myself and my husband constantly blames me for this. My mum also shouted at him in the street and I hear constantly from him how my mum is horrible and I get very defensive as I am very close to her. He says I prioritise her more than him and I don’t rush to defend him like I do her.

I recently flew home without him and this recent incident has really got me thinking about leaving.My family anre supportive of this. I just find it hard to be constantly told I don’t show him enough love. If I stay downstairs to do the dishes at night, it becomes you don’t want to spend time with me when genuinely I just want to do the dishes and he goes to bed at like 9. It is exhausting.

Anyway Tinytim, thank you for your perspective. Ic is so expensive what with the cost of living.

I recently flew home without him and this recent incident has really got me thinking about leaving.My family anre supportive of this. I just find it hard to be constantly told I don’t show him enough love. If I stay downstairs to do the dishes at night, it becomes you don’t want to spend time with me when genuinely I just want to do the dishes and he goes to bed at like 9. It is exhausting.

Please leave. He is so abusive!

Not to have a conversation along the lines of "my cheater is better than yours" because cheating is horrible but to give you some perspective, here is what my WH did when I asked him to take ownership for his A: told his brother that he cheated himself, sat through awkward conversations with his parents when I informed them of the affair and defended me when they tried to share the blame stating that he’s the only one to blame regardless of any (normal life) issues we may have had pre-affair, told his line manager at work he had an affair and with whom telling him he’ll need support to ensure I become priority no 1 as he’s trying to save his marriage.

This meant that during the following 3 years WH was able to answer all my calls regardless if he was in meetings, call me a huge amount of times himself to ensure I am ok and don’t have panic attacks, text me relentlessly and respond to my texts pretty much on the spot if I had anxiety attacks.

I also told my BF about the A and my family and he never tried to ask me not to see them, on the contrary he knew I needed support from them.

Your WH is not your friend and doesn’t care about your wellbeing. He’s abusive and is trying to isolate you so you are unable to leave him.

He lies and cheats and expects you to cover it up.

He continues to blame YOU for his affair.

He continues to blame YOU for his unhappiness.

He still rages at you because of things that occurred during his affair.

My H tried to blame me for his affair too. He used the excuse "we were disconnected" as a reason to cheat and why he needed that "emotional connection" with someone else.

One night I got fed up and told him that HE was disconnected b/c he spent time talking to the OW and many other people and not me. So I was not disconnected- he was.

I think it’s typical cheater behavior to point the finger at everyone else when the affair blows up the marriage.

The question is how long can you listen to the crap the cheater throws around before you get sick of it?

Thank you both. Luna I guess he would say I didn’t give him the opportunity to tell because I did it for him. I told his mother in a fit of rage as we live down the street from her. I regret that massively. There are definitely things I did I regret. He never told his work that is on him.

I am so close to wanting to leave, just need to do it in the way that is the least damaging to the kids. Part of me just wants to pack my bags and take the kids and go.

I get I did a lot of stupid things but even yesterday he was annoyed that I brought up the affair. After hearing how I don’t show much love and affection, I said I am still hurt and I don’t mention it anymore but his affair hurt me. he says it was a year ago I should be over it. For him it is far worse as my family know and he has to live with that in the now and he gets excluded from things because he won’t see my family ever again because he is hurt by how they acted.

Lemonpie - take absolutely no blame for the cheating. I am going through the same crap right now. My WW continues to blame marital relationship problems, instead of peering inside to highlight her character issues. They have a lack of self-respect and self-love that inhibits them from truly seeing who the problem is - themselves. I have a hard boundary right now on that nonsense. When we are talking and she turns to that nonsense, the conversation is over. And as far as friends - my WW has practically cut off our friends group to protect herself from the guilt and shame. I visit them a few times a week to clear my head, and I always feel better after just a few hours with them. It makes my wife uncomfortable but so be it! Do not feel guilty leaning on your support group, ever.

Lemonpie

Think of it this way:

If you were driving down the middle lane of a three lane highway at a legal speed, going the right direction in a relatively safe and adequately maintained vehicle and someone overtaking you while driving too fast had a blow-out due to badly worn tires and slammed into your vehicle...

How much blame would you accept?

He could claim that the right-rear lightbulb of your vehicle was blown, and therefore it’s your fault. Or that you should have been on the shoulder-lane. Or that everyone except you drove a bit faster on that road. Or that you could have taken another route and didn’t have any real purpose to be on that road at that time.

Would any of it make sense?

We are that relatively safe and adequately maintained vehicle. You might be thinking the worn front-bearing might be the cause for the accident, or that if your heater was working better the front-window wouldn’t be fogged, or had the right front light worked you could have been on the shoulder-lane or whatever. But everyone – insurance, cops, friends... – would be assuring you that the ONLY reason your car got whacked was the other driver was at excessive speed and had bald tires.

It’s the same with your marriage and his decision to have an affair.

You could be praying at an altar to his greatness, giving him oral sex while pouring a beer for him and making him a sandwich... and he would still cheat. His moral-tires are bald...

I have posted on your threads previously. Your husband is controlling. He is doing his best to control his affair and doing damage-control. He has shown immense patterns common with controlling (and therefore emotionally abusive (and therefore potentially physically abusive)) spouses. One of those patterns is isolating the partner from those that could aid or guide her.

I am not basing that statement on this thread alone, but the cumulated data you have shared so far.

If you do decide to leave (and I truly think you need some extremely drastic actions for change, be that to change your marital status or change your marriage) then keep in mind it’s about 90% likely he will respond in a controlling and dominant manner. I would guess that would be with financial manipulation. Therefore don’t file or take any action he is aware of until you have talked to a solicitor and can have everything needed to freeze or define his assets.

What Bigger said!

I'll add this. You should feel guilty for not processing the trauma that was inflicted on you in a way that was more considerate of your WH? Did I summarize his position correctly?

Next time you talk to your husband, tell him this:

"I've been doing a lot of thinking. You're right. I'm the worst wife in the world-- cold, critical, and unloving. My close family and friends are all horrible people who have treated you so poorly; I promise you that from this day forth, you will never have to see them or even hear the names of all the people I told about your affair.

That's why I've decided to file for divorce.

I know that makes me a quitter. You've tried so hard to fix this marriage, and I've disappointed you yet again! But I must accept my own limitations and the sad fact that I can't hold a candle to your perfection. I need to set you free so you can have the unlimited sex on demand, affection, and adoring praise that you so clearly need and deserve."

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:43 PM, Wednesday, May 22nd]

Bigger for the win.

Your husband sounds dangerous.

And after giving him the above Bluer-speech add this:
"As a parting gift here is something that can match your sexual needs, character and morals"
And hand him a blow-up sex-doll...

I love your idea, Bigger, but I wasn't suggesting being sarcastic at all; I think she should deliver that speech with heart-breaking sincerity. Unfortunately, considering how much Lemonpie has internalized her husband's criticisms, that shouldn't be hard to do.

Lemonpie, if your husband truly believes that you have starved him of love and physical connection to the point that he-- a well-meaning, decent, family man-- was driven to the point of infidelity and habitual alcohol abuse, then he will feel relieved and overjoyed by your magnanimous decision to liberate him from the shackles of marriage to you.

But if he lashes out--either in despair or anger-- then may be you'll finally start to believe us when we say that his affair and ongoing abuse has nothing to do with you with anything you've done or are doing now.

I’ve once heard two women talking ( in a work environment): one was telling the other that she found love again after divorce. She said "relationships shouldn’t be hard, you shouldn’t always have to justify yourself and wonder what you’ve done wrong. You shouldn’t always feel like you’ve been to war having survived another hard day in your marriage". (Don’t know the context of her prior marriage).

It got me thinking at the time as it was about 6 months after dday and my marriage did feel like a war zone. I guess WH put in enough effort to make me think that we will achieve peace again.

The question is how long do you think the current situation is sustainable for and do you really think you could achieve peace again, one where you don’t question yourself if perhaps you have neglected your WH by paying too much attention to cooking/your kids/your garden etc, and he may have again fallen into another vagina?

Because you see, once you take responsibility for an affair then you allow the other person to believe they are entitled to cheat under any circumstances. She didn’t smile? Cheat. She didn’t say good morning? Cheat. Heck, at one point my WH had the audacity to say that one reason for feeling neglected was that I didn’t meet him by the door to kiss him, nor did I make him a tea in one instance. (He has admitted how ridiculous that was when he saw my dead stare)

By those standards I should be on… let me see… my 4th, 5th affair…

[This message edited by Luna10 at 5:40 PM, Wednesday, May 22nd]

my husband got it in his head that I shouldn’t be allowed to see people I told about the affair and his behaviour or as he says the people I destroyed him too. He told me if I really loved him, I would put him first.

Telling you that your reaction to his cheating is a test for how much you love him is INCREDIBLY rich and outrageously entitled. His worry right now is that HE feels unloved. My god. Let’s call a spade a spade. He wants to isolate you from others who might possibly tell you that you deserve better. He wants to isolate you so you are dependent on him and without a support network because it is easier to control, gaslight, manipulate, and brainwash you without interference from the real world. It’s a classic abuser strategy. You have internalized some of that over time – how could you not. It does not make it real.

Lemon, you should take ZERO responsibility for his cheating. ZERO. If he didn’t feel loved by you, that’s on him, not on you. Do not delude yourself into thinking that if you had only done A, B, or C, he’d have been happy and content and wouldn’t have felt compelled to cheat. No. He cheated because he wanted to and felt entitled to do so, and even if you had done A, B, or C, he would have found some other reason to blame you for every negative feeling he has. THE SAME WAY HE ALWAYS DOES. The same way you cannot win with the dishes, you will never win with this guy. It’s exhausting because he will ALWAYS be moving the goalposts because his biggest motivator is to avoid feeling the tiniest ounce of responsibility for the bed he has made or the tiniest glimmer of negative emotion.

he says it was a year ago I should be over it. For him it is far worse as my family know and he has to live with that in the now and he gets excluded from things because he won’t see my family ever again because he is hurt by how they acted.

In case you need to be reminded of what is normal, NONE of us were "over it" in a year. Even those of us with incredibly remorseful spouses who were doing the work and validating our feelings and leaving space for us to discuss and process our resentments and fears and disappointments (something you have never been allowed). You’re not crazy. Let me say this again, YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. He is making you feel crazy (and that is legitimately his goal here - to make you doubt yourself) but you are not crazy. Isn’t it interesting though that while he finds it absolutely unacceptable for you to harbour any negative feelings at all despite YOUR hurt, he is absolutely entitled to hold on with a deathgrip to his own grudges and resentments of you from pre-affair and to your parents for.... having to face a single (natural) consequence for his own actions? Interesting? Perhaps. Hypocritical? ABSOULTELY. But not suprising in the least coming from him. His narcissism makes his reactions incredibly predictable. Because he is the centre of everything and the only thing that matters at all to him is protecting his very fragile ego.

Detach detach detach. Make a plan to leave and get ready to execute it.

[This message edited by emergent8 at 6:17 PM, Wednesday, May 22nd]

that I shouldn’t be allowed to see people I told about the affair and his behaviour or as he says the people I destroyed him too. He told me if I really loved him, I would put him first. Anyway, this has got me seriously thinking about leaving just working my exit strategy.

Sorry but he lost his standing after his A. He does not get to dictate who your support is anymore. And it's too bad he feels that way, another consequence of his A.

He also really struggles with the fact that I don’t show physical affection, so don’t kiss him when he gets in or don’t tell him I love him or text him often.

I don’t know how much of this is the affair and the damage it has done.

He really doesn't get it does he? The only thing I felt like doing after my xWS's A was kick his a** to the curb. I hated him. I raged at him. I despised him. If your WS does not become a safe partner to you it may never come back.

Have him read the book "Cheating in a Nutshell" it sums up the feeling of disgust after an A quite nicely.

Definitely find yourself a therapist. Your WS does not sound like a great candidate for R. You may want to detach a bit and watch his actions. If he continues to spiral I would exit the M. Limbo is complete hell ask me how I know

But seriously please find a therapist who is experienced with trauma after betrayal.

He wants to isolate you so you are dependent on him and without a support network because it is easier to control, gaslight, manipulate, and brainwash you without interference from the real world. It’s a classic abuser strategy.

This like a thousand times! Great post from emergent8

Thank you all for your insights. Some made me smile.

I am at a point now where I feel a I have had enough. I am not telling him that so don’t know if that a deceptive of me, but he is very good at making me feel super guilty and I tend to feel a lot of guilt for things. The last big fight he told me he was suicidal and was crying blaming me for destroying his life and then when I threatened to leave as I couldn’t take it anymore he was as cool as a cucumber asking me to come home and he was sorry.

I genuinely feel recently the way he acts, it is like I had the affair. Reading my messages on my phone and I am not allowed near his, asking me to cut friends out when it took him nearly a year to change office locations.