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About two years in R now, one thing I still can’t wrap my head around, is how can a WS love the double life for so long? In our story it was three years mostly with one man, but regularly seeing each other; and later few other men entered the picture. So the lies continued and happened daily.

Do they just get used to living two lives? Lying doesn’t come with any guilt? How could she still love me during the worst of days? I’m sure there were many days we had sex on the same day. How can all this be true and we enjoyed our company on some occasions while raising kids? Things are much better now at every level (but still hard), but the lies, I can’t imagine what’s going through their head and how it’s ok to do so much of it and with such a straight face.

Or how did it feel to come home after the first time they had sex and watch me so obliviously living a normal Friday night and have a small talk and tell her about my work day? Maybe it wasn’t a Friday and maybe I wasn’t home and we didn’t talk. I hope. But keep thinking about that day almost as often as the DDay.

To hide spicy texts in WhatsApp and Signal and delete them frequently.

I don’t get it. And now she’s struggling understanding why I don’t trust her fully yet, why I get triggered when I see a long text message she’s typing to someone, or any time she mentions meeting a new man at work or whatever.

I know it gets better but how did you come to accept And forgive the lies?

You’re wasting your time trying to figure out why they lie and live second lives.

The truth is probably a lot harder than you want to admit. They love having power and get a kick out of outsmarting their partner. Sure we can do FOO issues or this or that or whatever. Really it’s a waste. Bottom line is that it feels good. Like hard drugs. Drugs wouldn’t be a problem if it didn’t feel so damn good. Same with affairs. They enjoy being deceptive and getting away with it.

Also two years into R, gonna give you a warning, the whole thing of why you don’t trust her again yet is a major red flag.

It only can get better w/ a cheater who understands your pain and why you react the way you do.

In your case she’s not truly understanding the trauma you have suffered as a betrayed person.

I’m sorry you have a spouse who doesn’t truly get it.

My WH affair was quite short (1month). Fooled around at work, kissing and the likes and had sex twice at her house after leaving work early . But I had some very similar questions.

Like how can you have days off at work be fucking her knowing I’m busting my arse at work all day and come home to cook his dinner. Or the second time he had sex with her left her place and went to our sons day for Father’s Day celebrations and then text me all about it without flinching about the fact he had just had sex with some other woman.

Just shows how good of liars they are. Pathetic pathetic liars!!!

Webbit,

Keeping the theme, for mr WW had sex with AP the morning of our daughter’s bday while they were all at school. Then, invited him to her party while I was out of town for work and couldn’t be there. And yes, she did it on purpose because she wanted AP there and not me, so she made up a story about how it was the only day available for the venue.

Cheaters love being deceptive. I wouldn’t dig past that

Or how did it feel to come home after the first time they had sex and watch me so obliviously living a normal Friday night and have a small talk and tell her about my work day? Maybe it wasn’t a Friday and maybe I wasn’t home and we didn’t talk. I hope.

This exact question has been roaming though my mind since Dday. How could he fuck her for the first time, then came to pick me up from work, kissed me, chatted about his day? How the fuck can any decent person do that? How did he not feel guilty, how did he not crumble under the weight of his actions? I am three years out and I don't think I will ever be able to get it. I just don't have it in me to act like that, to even imagine the possibility where this would be OK. So I am trying to stop looking for logic and sense, where there is none. Also I don't think I will ever forgive him. I hope we can R without forgiveness. I am currently working on acceptance, not that it happened, but that he gets to keep us after what he did.

Because they love the attention they get from the AP more than they love being exclusive in the main relationship. They don’t prioritise their partners feelings or even think about them in those moments. We don’t exist - they compartmentalise.

My partner had an affair for 4 years and used to kiss me goodbye when he left the house to go and see her.. when I thought he was going to a work meeting as he goes out for work quite a lot so I never thought him being out was untoward.

Yea makes me feel sick.

After a year limping along in R I still don’t know whether to stay or leave. We hold onto the good times we had, and the idea of what we thought it would be. Denying the reality of what has actually become of the relationship maybe.

I actually ask my H this sometimes because it is still something that I can not really grasp and not sure I will ever be able to.

He tells me that when he left this home , the kids and I weren't even a thought, all he thought about was getting his "high" from her. To be put on a pedastal and told how great he was and if he thought about us or the shit H and father he was being then it would ruin his high.
He tried to tell me that when he was home with us he didn't think of her much but I don't think I believe that , he said he would think about the feelings he got from her but not her, so maybe that is more believable, IDK.

What I do know is that he told me he answered a few of my calls while being with her at dinner... how he can take a call from me about our children while sitting with that trash? I won't ever get that or how she could sit there and feel good about what she was doing either.

He told me that he never was going to leave, she was an escape and it helped him numb the pain he had from his own internal issues (not feeling good enough, people pleasing, not making enough money , etc) He said that the high at the time was more important than the kids and I, . That he enjoyed being "bad" not only was it forbidden bc we were married, but they also worked together so there was the thrill of that and getting caught.

Now while I guess I can believe that, it doesnt make it easier to swallow the pill that he COULD do something so despicable. I think as a BS we won't ever be able to understand the HOW even if we get the WHY. the WS makes up crap in their own head, put themselves before anyone else (AP included).

The further my H gets away from what he did the harder it is for him to be able to discuss it without feeling sick, or wanting to cry, the amount of lies he told himself about me and the kids are all coming down and he is seeing for the first time how truly blessed he is to be here, especially bc he doesnt deserve to be.

Now this:

I don’t get it. And now she’s struggling understanding why I don’t trust her fully yet, why I get triggered when I see a long text message she’s typing to someone, or any time she mentions meeting a new man at work or whatever.

I do not get this, she had a 3 year A and she is struggling with why you don't fully trust her? She has proven that she can do something so horrible to you, she should be thankful you're still with her and trying. I think I would be a little concerned about her behavior if I was you, this doesn't sound good. (sorry, not trying to be hurtful) Maybe in the beginning before remorse sets in but not during R.

I have some strict expectations with my H around this and my triggers, he doesn't take his phone in the bathroom or in the shower, he has an open phone policy where i can read whatever i want when i want, if he is texting someone and i feel uncomfortable, he shows me what he is typing and who it is to, no social media, no lunches or anything with women at work, life 360 on his phone, porn blockers, etc.

He actually came up with several ideas on his own ^ to make me feel safe and to make me even want to give R a chance.

They did this to us, these are the consequences they face because of them (not forever) but for a long time. Ill never be ok with friends of the opposite sex but maybe one day he will be able to listen to music in the shower, who knows but he doesn't complain bc he knows he did it to himself.

I wish you the best of luck on this shitty ride and I hope your W starts to come around and see that what you are even offering is a gift that you dont have to give and actually can take back whenever you see fit.

It took a long time to understand it. The problem was that when I looked at my fWW, I saw what she wanted me to see, a decent accomplished woman who went to church on Sundays, took care of our kids, etc. You know, the normal professional suburban mom and wife. So I tried to understand her through that lens. But that is not who she was. She was a broken, needy woman who wanted to escape normal life as much and as often as she could. She wanted men to want her, and was willing to do what she needed to in order to get their attention. What I saw was her mask she put on every day to get through the day.

When I stopped looking at her behavior through the lens of a betrayed husband and victim, and started looking at her almost like a forensic psychologist (which I have no training for) I started seeing her past the mask she put on. What I saw was treatable with help, patience, strict boundaries, and lots of caring. She got a great IC, one who specialized in addiction, we went to MC, and did a ton of work on our own. I changed the question from "how could she?" to "why would she?" What in the world was wrong with her that allowed her to lower herself to that level.

In addition, I learned that her issues had little to nothing to do with me, my worthiness, or our family. No matter how much she wanted to justify her actions with some slight I may have made, some inadequacy she perceived or any other justification, she did what she did because of her and her brokenness.

That made all the difference. It took a lot of time and work, but now she really is the confident professional suburban wife she pretended to be. There are still fears and issues that come up, but she is a changed, much happier woman. And she is a safe spouse. I guess I took my vow more seriously than she did. For better or worse. I stuck through the worst, and it made all the difference for her and for our marriage. I wish it had not taken D-day to find out how to help her. It would have been so much easier and it could have saved so much pain.

The answer may vary but I think for some the affair is escape. A numbing of whatever pain or dysfunction lives inside of them. That numbness blots out guilt. It blots out thinking about consequences. They just don't feel all that much.

The affair excitement breaks through the numbness. In that world they are alive and present. When they are home, away from the affair, they return to numb.

I honestly don't think my WS felt much of anything for years. Years of avoidant behavior, escapist tendencies and a refusal to look inside left him pretty much an emotionally dead man. A dead man can't feel guilt.

I’m going on 18 years and I’m right there with you. Please God take this pain away. Bless you.

How the fuck can any decent person do that? How did he not feel guilty, how did he not crumble under the weight of his actions? I am three years out and I don't think I will ever be able to get it. I just don't have it in me to act like that, to even imagine the possibility where this would be OK. So I am trying to stop looking for logic and sense, where there is none. Also I don't think I will ever forgive him.

I don't know if you are not forgiving. For me forgiveness is to give a second chance to another person. If you still want that person in your life you are forgiving them. Those who don't want to forgive them, move on. They have admitted their hurtful choice and even if it is very hard to accept they did it and they did it TO YOU, if you still want them in you r life, it means you have forgiven them.

I will for ever feel the pain of his choice for breaking my dream to be in a relationship with a man who was not a liar. He was, he was able to deceive me for YEARS, to have sex with me before or after having it with her. How disgusting!! I was mixing my germs with hers and her husband's: how disgusting!! We have had GPS position for years, He was where he said he would be.... but not alone!

Four and a half years after D-Day and not a single day in which I haven't thought about it, how unfair and horrible all this is. She probably is in my thoughts more than in his. I hate her profoundly and hate what they did to me together.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 3:51 PM, Friday, July 12th]

About two years in R now, one thing I still can’t wrap my head around, is how can a WS love the double life for so long? In our story it was three years mostly with one man, but regularly seeing each other; and later few other men entered the picture. So the lies continued and happened daily.

It’s a valued lifestyle.

I don't know if you are not forgiving. For me forgiveness is to give a second chance to another person. If you still want that person in your life you are forgiving them. Those who don't want to forgive them, move on. They have admitted their hurtful choice and even if it is very hard to accept they did it and they did it TO YOU, if you still want them in you r life, it means you have forgiven them.

Fantactic, I guess it depends on the definition of forgiveness. For me forgiveness is letting go of the anger and resentment towards the prepetrator, letting go of the desire to punish him for his actions. And I am not there yet, even though I am giving him a second chance. I am still very angry about what he did and I still feel he should be punished, even though, for me there is really no appropriate punishment for infidelity if you want to R, so I will have to write that debt off sometime. Not today though.

I thought a lot about this topic over the last three years and I believe, at least for me, forgiveness is not necessary for R. What is necessary is for me to accept what he has done, accept that I am still here despite all the disgusting actions on his part, accept that in a way he is getting away with murder. ANd to write off that debt eventually, but only if he proves worthy of it.

Zetacephei,
You're dropping some of the most thought provoking quotes I've read in a while. Incredible insight.

"I am currently working on acceptance, not that it happened, but that he gets to keep us after what he did".

This is so well put. And I get where you're at and think I agree. I dont think ill ever forgive, and I accept that it happened. It's the lack of justice that I have struggle so hard to accept and may well be the death knell to me. It's unfair she got to eat all that cake, feel all those butterflies, avoid the struggle I was in raising our kids by leaning on her crutch and leaving me utterly alone in my wars, and then just come back and have me? No, that's a really hard pill to swallow. I think that's the sentiment that has the potential to drive people to revenge affairs. The human soul seems wires to demand and seek justice, and if the wayward gets to keep me, then the most obvious way to get justice is "an eye for an eye" type thinking. It will not work. There's no way to even the scales. But I understand the thought process that gets a person there.

Anyway, you're dropping hard earned sage wisdom. Thank you.

How can the lies live so long? For me, I feel like lies are the foundation of our marriage…..

Cheated for 20 years and lied, lied by omission for 18 more, lied through , multiple D-Days. Lie, Lie, Lie!

1345Marine, what you said resonates with me:

I dont think ill ever forgive, and I accept that it happened. It's the lack of justice that I have struggle so hard to accept and may well be the death knell to me. It's unfair she got to eat all that cake, feel all those butterflies, avoid the struggle I was in raising our kids by leaning on her crutch and leaving me utterly alone in my wars, and then just come back and have me? No, that's a really hard pill to swallow. I think that's the sentiment that has the potential to drive people to revenge affairs. The human soul seems wires to demand and seek justice, and if the wayward gets to keep me, then the most obvious way to get justice is "an eye for an eye" type thinking. It will not work. There's no way to even the scales.

I’m right there with you. This is the biggest unjustice I have ever suffered and it encompasses most of my life. Our worthless MC told me "you were both in the same marriage". I said "No, I was in a MUCH worse one. I was married to a serial cheater. She was married to a faithful man". Silence. "Off chasing butterflies and leaving me utterly alone in my wars. Exactly! In retrospect, my WW sabotaged the marriage to "justify" her affairs. She can’t just be a low integrity cheater can she? The marriage must be bad. Make it so!

Can there ever be "balance"? No. At times I regret staying faithful. I wouldn’t even look at an affair now as "revenge" or "balancing the scales". For one thing, I likely won’t live long enough to cheat for 20 years. On the other, would it even be cheating? Our vows were discarded, burned and pissed on 39 years ago. Ahh but my morals keep me from doing it. Good boy. Here’s a cookie and a pat on the head. You know what, I’m betraying my morals anyway by staying with a person who cheated on me repeatedly and lied about it for 38 years……

You know what, I’m betraying my morals anyway by staying with a person who cheated on me repeatedly and lied about it for 38 years……

Which begs the question: WHY?

Which begs the question: WHY?

Age, finances, family considerations. It’s complicated. But most of all, I’m trying R and she was diagnosed with brain cancer 7 months after D-Day. My morals also won’t allow me to be the asshole who abandons my wife in the middle of a cancer battle….even though she effectively "abandoned me" most of our marriage. Ahh, those pesky ethics and morals….

My morals also won’t allow me to be the asshole who abandons my wife in the middle of a cancer battle….even though she effectively "abandoned me" most of our marriage. Ahh, those pesky ethics and morals….

How sad to hear, but I think many BS feel this way, that when their spouse commits adultery, and then the betrayed spouse files for D, that it’s the BS who "ended the M". I completely disagree but you don’t need me to tell you it’s your life and should do as you see fit as what is best for you.

How sad to hear, but I think many BS feel this way, that when their spouse commits adultery, and then the betrayed spouse files for D, that it’s the BS who "ended the M". I completely disagree but you don’t need me to tell you it’s your life and should do as you see fit as what is best for you.

IDK how you made the leap from "I won’t leave while my wife battles cancer" to I don’t want to be the "one to end the marriage" and “many BS feel this way”. My situation is pretty unique and has little to do with how other BS feel and react. I explained we were in R when she was diagnosed with Brain Cancer. Now, it wasn’t going great but we had made some huge strides the day before her seizures. Everything got put on pause with the cancer diagnosis. Surgery, radiation and chemotherapy. She is STILL undergoing chemo. We weren’t moving toward D before the diagnosis and I’m not going to just "pull the cord" and run based on the diagnosis. Had we been proceeding with D at the time, I may have even paused it. (I have zero qualms about moving to D if that is the right choice at the right time. My wife and I know WHO ended the marriage if it comes to that and so would our kids and friends). IDK. I wasn’t faced with that. THIS is what I am faced with. As you can imagine, R has been pretty much paused and non-existent while we go through cancer treatment. Is that fair to me? No. But based on MY morals and ethical code, a person who abandons their spouse in the middle of cancer is a bigger POS than even a cheater. I have history that gives me this perspective. I would make the choice to stay through treatment 100 times out of 100 based on my moral code alone. But besides that, it would have been immensely stupid for me to leave and initiate divorce during her treatment. There was a good chance she would not even live until the divorce was final. Why pursue divorce against a dying person? To make a point? That point would cost me tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, financial advisor fees, etc. on top of all the medical fees. My adult kids would hate me (they don’t know about the infidelity and won’t unless we decide to divorce at a later date)my grandkids and friends would hate me and I would forfeit a substantial life insurance policy. Would pursuing divorce have made the last year better for me? Fuck no! It would have been exponentially worse. It would have made my entire family’s lives worse.

There is nothing "fair" about my life. I made this choice and would do it again. Hopefully, she recovers and we can resume R. If that doesn’t go well, I can D later. Or I can just "dribble out the clock"…..

Like you said, it’s my life. I was robbed of choices during the infidelities. I’m not going to make my life worse by making stupid ones now.

[This message edited by ImaChump at 12:34 AM, Tuesday, July 16th]