SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Have found a few lies and some head scratching behavior that I am trying to nail down so I can make a decision
as far as I know it all started back in April, 2023:
Caught her in a lie to me about her location and who she was talking to. It was the day after my uncle passed away and when I talked to her something felt off, so I looked at our family sharing location for iPhone. She was not where she said she was and even after she got home until she went to bed she did not say any different, I asked a few questions but did not let on like I knew, she swore on our kids lives that she was not lying. I finally told her that I had proof and showed her, then she said she was just not telling me because I would be mad. She said she was talking to my sister inlaw (now divorced from my brother because he cheated on her). I asked her if there was anything else, she immediately says she is not cheating and I said fine, anything else, she says no.
Then the next morning she is in my office and crying and apologizing I ask her again she says no, then she finally says well I did get into a text flame war with your dad a few months ago and never told you…
Then after some MC sessions in Oct, 2023:
We had went to 3 MC sessions, did not find they helped. I had said a lot of extremely personal things in these sessions and I specifically asked her not to tell anyone about them, then I hear her telling one of her friends on the phone all about the sessions and how its actually just about me and my family issues, nothing to do with her. I approach her and ask her if she told anyone a few days later, she lies and says no, I tell her I heard her and she says sorry.
Then in Nov, 2023:
I had heard her again telling friends about our relationship and specifically things I had asked her not to say that I had trusted her with. She did it again and lied to me once again saying she swears on her dead grandparents, etc. I tell her I am done, she asks that I stay for the party and not to make a scene. I do and then she just pretends like nothing happened. This goes on over Christmas, new years and into January 2024.
Jan, 2024:
Based on all the lies, I put a VAR in her office, which is also our master bedroom,as I suspect something with her and her boss. This evening we are sitting on the couch in living room, watching TV, when her and her boss are playing phone tag for 30 minutes, and she leaves the living room downstairs to go up to bedroom at 7pm, to talk to him on the phone. The snippets of the conversation I hear are not that of a typical boss/employee. He is going to buy his own ticket and they are talking of meeting up after… etc, nothing sexual or totally incriminating, but I can only hear her side of convo.
I play this over for a day and then confront her. She flips out, says she cant believe I recorded her and its not what it sounds like, and I am the one with the problem not her. She grabs and smashes my keyboard and mouse on desk, then rips one of my monitors off the desk mount and throws it on the ground while screaming at me.
She says her boss is gay and there is no way. Then she phones a co-worker and says my husband thinks I am cheating with boss, and the co-worker also says no way.
She gets in vehicle says she is leaving, calls her family to tell them that we are getting a divorce because I did this, no info on what she did.
I call her after a couple hours, tell her to come back and that I want to make it work...
June, 2024:
she goes on one of her 3 national meetings per year, out of province, where the boss will be as well. I ask her to tell me if there are any texts or inappropriate behaviors.
She gets back from meeting and says no contact with boss over text that we had agreed on. I look at cell bill and there is more than 1. I stew for a couple days, she knows something is wrong, then we get into a fight I ask her again if any contact, she says no, I say I know there was a text, she flips out and says it was 1 text and it was to the group for a welcome package, says she cant live like this walking on eggshells and should not have to tell me who she is talking to or anything else.
Called me jealous, insecure, other names
Then followed me upstairs to continue berating me until I was apologizing…
I tell her we made an agreement and if she feels like she cant tell me that means it is not appropriate, she loses it, rips our wedding sign above bed down and breaks it by stomping it to pieces.
Somehow it ends up I am the one in the wrong and she will now not tell me when they communicate…unless it is inappropriate.
Then she said she is not going to tell me anymore and I should stop asking, even when my body is shouting at me that something is wrong.
July, 2024:
Notice her flip from a screen with purple text on it very fast when I walk up behind her. Look later and see this is IG vanish mode. A couple days later on the weekend we are outside and she leaves her phone on picnic table, I take 2 minutes to look and there is a IG vanish mode chat with boss at top of list, saw that he even sent a pic with their coworker to her in the chat, but not in vanish mode. Looked again a few days later and there is nothing in the chat history, but it is at the top of the message heap.
I have not mentioned anything as I have no proof and every time I tell her she just continues but goes deeper to hide it.

I need a way to get some actual proof of this as it is driving me crazy and I want to make the right decision for my 2 children as well.

Currently the waters are calm and she has her phone on silent and always placed face down.

First rule of trying to catch someone out on infidelity is mouth shut eyes and ears open. The second rule is never give up your sources. You’ve painted yourself into a corner as far as your wife goes. Maybe you can try putting a VAR in her car but only if you’re confident she won’t check for one.

That leaves her possible affair partner. Have you checked his social media? If she’s warned him you may be blocked. You might consider paying for a background check. If he’s straight it shouldn’t be to hard to confirm. Of course that would only prove that your wife is a liar, which is something you already know.

You’ve already tried marriage counseling and it’s validated that you can’t trust her. It may be time to talk to a lawyer and see what divorce would look like for you, and then really consider if you want to continue life with a temperamental untrustworthy liar.

You will die a slow painful death trying to get proof of her cheating. You really don’t need to. She is putting her relationship with her boss and her friends over you and the marriage. That’s all you need. Is that acceptable to you? Plus she lies, a lot. Pretty cut and dry in my opinion. Her cheating would just be the topping on a shit cake.

Take cheating out of this and look at her behavior. She is pretty awful to you and clearly doesn’t respect you or your boundaries. Smashing things, yelling, bullying and berating. Disclosing personal information from therapy to friends. Specifically topics that you asked her not too. That’s a massive betrayal.

I don’t know if she’s cheating with her boss, it definitely sounds like a very inappropriate relationship at the least. It doesn’t have to be sex to be cheating.

I’m guessing anger is her go to defense whenever she’s called out on her behavior? Smashing keyboards and monitors? Immediately calling her co worker about your suspicions of her cheating? She sounds like she is 13 and throwing a tantrum that she didn’t get her way.

I mean this in the kindest possible way OP, but have you considered personal therapy to dive into why you’re willing to tolerate being treated this way by your wife? We only know a small snippet by what you’ve written but there could be codependency issues at play here….

Welcome to SI and so sorry you had to find us. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that we encourage newbies to read. There are some posts with bull's eye icons that are very helpful, too. The Healing Library is at the top of the forum and included the list of acronyms we use.

Her behavior does sound suspicious, but it's tough to tell if there is something between the two. It's hard to pick up on some things when you don't know the person.

Are you unhappy most of the time. Do you like being married to someone who trashed your devices. Do you enjoy spending most of your time worrying? Maybe it’s time to divorce. This is your one life.

My WH is (hopefully was) a liar and an expert at omitting truth to avoid confrontations with me or anybody honestly. This always pissed me off and is one of the characteristics I believe made him susceptible to choosing an affair.

I’m not saying your wife is having an affair but lying to you is just not ok. Nor is the way she carry’s on smashing all of your stuff.

Besides acting very immature, you wife seems have mastered the technique of DARVO. DARVO means to Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim, and Offender. Please study this subject so you can recognize when she does it to you.

You notice that each time you confront her with her lies, she goes on the offensive in a harmful, abusive manner. Has she ever physically attacked you?

Have you considered keeping a VAR on you when you speak to her about her possibly cheating on you? In my opinion, now would be the time to do so. The last thing you want is for her to file a domestic abuse charge on you with the police. She does not seem mentally stable, acting like a child who throws a temper tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

Since you have known her, has she always acted this way, or is this just some new tactic she is using? If it is new, someone might have taught her how to go on the offensive to throw you off the trail when you are getting close to catching her doing something she should not be doing.

Also, someone mentioned moving the VAR to her car. Not a bad idea at all.

Unfortunately you have already given up your sources of information with some very, very premature confrontations. From now on, please keep your mouth shut when you began gathering unpleasant information. If you find you want to confront her before you have all the facts, then please try to keep it under control until you can get to a place where you can scream your lungs out and no one can hear you. Or, take up boxing and beat the hell out of the punching bag until you are exhausted. That way, in the future, you might be able to act nonchalant around her as you go about your fact gathering mission.

Good luck to you.

If you live in a no-fault state, why do you need proof? Just file. If she is innocent, she will do anything to prove her innocence. If she says that, tell her you will schedule a polygraph for her. Her immediate reaction will tell you all you need to know.

Good luck.
Stay strong.
Refuse to be disrespected by ANYONE!!
And be an example for your kids on how a man acts when disrespected at this extreme level!

I’m sorry you have been going through this. Like others have said, don’t tell her how you know or how much you know. You use the information gathered to find the smoking gun, you will never win confronting someone that is lying.

She has already admitted to withholding things from you. Her reaction to being questioned is abusive and very telling. You have enough now to end the relationship but if you keep digging you will find it.

GettingThere- sorry to hear what you are going through. I’m curious what the "text flame war with your dad" is about. What is a text flame war and why did she hide the fact that she exchanged messages with your dad?

I agree with what the others have posted. If you decided to hold on and gather more evidence I would put on your best fake happy face and drop any hint of suspicion in front of her. She will be more likely to let her guard down if she doesn’t feel like you are watching every move. As others said, do not confront with bits and pieces. Gather what you need to feel convinced (either way- cheating or not) and do not share your sources with her.

thanks to all who posted in reply to this.
I have now unfortunately a litany of updated acronyms for which I never thought there would be a need...
DARVO does hit it on the head for sure, and codependency...probably, I have a therapist and we are working on those as well as focusing more on myself. This was such a huge event because I assumed the trust pillar in our relationship was always going to be there and now with it ripped away it feels surreal and super vulnerable.

I have done some googling into iPhone spy apps, however they all have the same type of review on TrustPilot, that they typically dont work on a non-jail broken iPhone. I am hoping to be able to prove what I think is happening so I can proceed with D. I have met with 2 lawyers and have the financial and asset lists ready to go, just would like to have that smoking gun to not have doubts.

You already have a W who treats you pretty awful, and has no issue breaking things when she’s mad. I’d say that is a smoking gun on its own.

Again, this isn’t a court of law. No matter what the nature of their relationship is, if it’s inappropriate TO YOU, and she doesn’t respect it, that is a betrayal. You aren’t wrong, especially since she’s lying about talking to him and deleting conversations. You have the right to have your own boundaries.

Some people are ok with porn, others will divorce over it. Some people are ok with flirts/make out with others, others definitely not. This is no different.

Even if you take the suspected cheating out of the equation, you still have a wife who habitually lies to you, breaks her promises, and emotionally abuses you.

Ask yourself this - why isn’t she making you feel safe?

She is doing nothing to rebuild the trust she’s shattered. Is this partnership acceptable to you?

There is definitely something going on. It is extraordinarily obvious. Trust your gut. Remember, we are innately programmed to sense threat. Honor your intuition.

Please stop apologizing when she is not forthcoming and flies into a rage. You are deserving of love and respect and reciprocity. You are deserving of peace.

has anyone had success viewing instagram messages from spouses iPhone? I have looked at MSpy and others, but Trustpilot and other reviews say they do not work on non-jailbroken iphones. Looking to confirm my suspicions.

First rule of trying to catch someone out on infidelity is mouth shut eyes and ears open. The second rule is never give up your sources. You’ve painted yourself into a corner as far as your wife goes. Maybe you can try putting a VAR in her car but only if you’re confident she won’t check for one.

The second rule (okay at least mine) is to set them up. My WH (like most WS it seems) cannot resist the opportunity to contact (at bare minimum) the AP when they think the coast is clear. In my case my WH and I have find my phone location sharing on our cell phones - it was installed because I am a chronic looser of my phone (I'm terrible - always have been - keys too). So I used that to my advantage and told him I was going somewhere that was about an hour away and that I would be gone for about 4 hours - and I did just that. While I was gone I set up audio and visual record on my laptop (which is always open in the living room open so the fact that it was there was not suspicious at all), put the screen into sleep mode, and left. Yeah, he could have looked at it and IF he were to look at all the millions of icons I have open all the time he could have seen it was recording (if he realized that little green dot on the bottom of the screen meant it was doing so) - but he didn't as he had no reason to (after all he was not suspecting me of anything). I left about 30 minutes before he came home from work - and low and behold, he walked in the front door on the phone with AP and put her on speaker phone - so my computer recorded the entire 2 hour conversation, and the bonus was that I got both sides of the convo. I came home, listened to about 15 minutes of it, saved the file on a zip drive, and game over.

I'm not saying you have this set up - but if you make it easy for your spouse to have free time and to be able to confirm you will not be there, chances are good (better than good really) they will use that time to contact their AP. In most states (IDK what the rules are in your jurisdiction) if you are on the title of a vehicle you can enable tracking on the vehicle as well with out any issues. If you think she may leave to meet the boss somewhere when you are gone, put a tracker in the vehicle. Or a VAR. Or have a friend watch your house. Or whatever. The key is to making it verifiable that you are not home and cannot pop in. In my case I went exactly where I told him, and was gone for about that same amount of time, and he felt "safe" to do whatever he wanted because I wasn't there and wasn't going to be there.

While it may not work the first time, if something is going on, it will work eventually.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 8:43 PM, Wednesday, July 31st]

I have looked at MSpy and others, but Trustpilot and other reviews say they do not work on non-jailbroken iphones.

My understanding is this is correct. Also if you do not "own" the phone you could have legal issues (not likely in these situations BUT not out of the question either).

If she's going out of town with her boss why not hire a PI?

June, July, August, September, October you'll still be "collecting" evidence while dying slowly

One suggestion I tend to make when it’s not clear if there is infidelity or not...
Investigate to discover what’s going on rather than to find infidelity.
Believe me – IF she is cheating you will discover it, but if you focus on that single aspect chances are you might miss a lot of other clues and leads.

If she is cheating, then I think you will find the evidence using other means that cracking her social media accounts. Especially if it’s her boss. Why should she avoid using the office software (Teams, email and such) if it’s her boss?
(Granted, if a large company this might be to avoid breaking policy, but if this is a small company chances are there is no official policy).

Look at financial transactions, compare what she says she’s doing to what she says she’s doing, milage on vehicle, time away etc.

The MC... Why did you go there?
I actually think you two might benefit from going to some more sessions but with a clear goal. It really does sound like your communications are really shot. She has a blabbermouth and shares intimate secrets with others. I would recommend a new session (possibly new MC) that focuses on communications and trust.

Just keep in mind – the both of you – that the purpose of MC is not to change her, nor to change you, but to help each other change to the better. The MC won’t do the work – he’s like a personal trainer at the gym that might tell you to do pushups, but no matter how many he might do it won’t benefit either of you until you both try.