SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think it's a sign of strength, not weakness, to know what you want. I think it's a sign of strength, not weakness, to tell your WS what you want, and if you want R, to ask if she'll get on board.

Bigger's suggestion is great - saying you want to R, but not unless she dumps om.

Another way of accomplishing that is to establish requirements for R with your WS. I took my reqs from ideas that were common on SI when I joined.

The big reqs were: 1) honesty - no more lies; 2) N(o) C(ontact) with ap; 3) IC for WS - I added a req for my W that one of her IC goals had to be to change from cheater to good partner; 4) transparency - free access to WS's media, and WS keeps you informed of location, activities, and companions at basically all times; 5) IC for B, if BS wants it; 6) MC when appropriate. I also added some specifics that I wanted.

Those were my reqs. What would yours be?

IMO, honesty is key. That means not doing anything that has a goal of manipulating your WS. Talks to D lawyers by all means, but don't file unless you're ready to D. Don't lay down a requirement unless you really will impose some highly-likely-to-be-effective consequences unless the requirement is met.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:46 PM, Thursday, December 28th]

I had a dog that would get out and run. I would chase that dog around until I was worn out. We would corner her and bring her home. I was so afraid of her getting lost or injured.

I asked a dog trainer one day and he said "never chase the dog!" If anything turn and run from the dog she will chase after you.

One day she got out the door and ran, I did not respond at all. I calmly walked out in the front yard not looking or speaking to her. I suddenly turned around and ran into the house, she chased after me and came in.

After that, I never responded when she ran out, she would sniff around the yard, but never ran off again. I was not afraid of losing her. I was willing for the dog to run away and not come back, I was done chasing. She was free to go. She became one of the best most loyal dogs I ever had.

I’m not comparing your situation to training a dog but it’s meant as an illustration that when I was done, I was DONE!!!! The rest was up to her.

You have mentioned several times that depression caused these problems. Unless your wife tried her best to help you with depression before giving up she has no real love for you other than a business type relationship I like to comment on depression from Buddhist perspective. Accordingly just like fever is not a disease but a symptom of a sick body, depression is not a disease but symptom of a sick mind. By practicing mindfulness one can analyze what is causing her/him to be depressed. Also please watch the video titled Tenzin Palmo Jetsunma - The difference between Genuine Love and Attachment in youtube

I am sorry Friend, but you know what they say: 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...'

Well, your WW already fooled you once. Before you try to R with your WW, she needs to suffer CONSEQUENCES for her behavior! Full speed on the D-train! And this includes informing her family of her horrific choices. If she really, really, REALLY wants to stop it, she will make that perfectly clear.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:53 PM, Thursday, December 28th]

Your wife realizes she can get away with her cheating because of your desperation to save the marriage. She’s going to be better at hiding this and she’s going to continue. Why wouldn’t she? She has not suffered any consequences. The only person suffering here is you but it doesn’t bother her much.

I do hope for your sake you take all the advice here. Maybe she might have a true awakening when she is facing the reality of her actions and you actually have a shot at saving your family. Till then it’s going to be a shit show for you because she’s in control.

@sisoon:

I think it's a sign of strength, not weakness, to know what you want. I think it's a sign of strength, not weakness, to tell your WS what you want, and if you want R, to ask if she'll get on board.

Well, the problem with this is that our friend ALREADY tried this with his WW, after she turned on the waterworks the previous day. What happened after that? She restarted her affair the very next day.

There is another problem with this. A quote from the OP himself:

found 4500 deleted messages on her phone last night.

Selfies, declaring love for each other, sexual pictures, pictures of my kids opening their presents on Christmas morning.

Photos of our family Christmas at her parents saying one day you will be here.

You simply cannot go from that yesterday to "trying R" tomorrow. Instead, the OP needs to find his anger and rage right now--you better believe that it is there, and his WW needs to be bowing awfully deep and for a long long time to even be given the CHANCE at R. Then MAYBE R will be possible. Maybe.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:54 PM, Thursday, December 28th]

Meanwhile OP, I GET THE PAIN YOU ARE IN.

Right now you desperately want this to all go away, to have your family back intact.

Your heart is right now bleeding out (I am guessing), and you really do feel that your WW "coming back" will staunch the bleeding. You can deal with the disrespect dealt to you later, you likely are now feeling. This all probably goes double as you have kids. So, now that your WW pleading with you for another chance, is awfully hard for you to say no to. 'Why CAN'T it all work out right this time'.

Unfortunately, it does not work like that. We could write a novel on here as to why this is and a short post can't do it justice. I will try though. Unless your WW does an awful lot of work to even have any sort of chance at R, she will feel funny about things. That is even assuming that your WW has any integrity in the first place. And you will end up losing your own self-respect ('look at what I put up with from my WW').

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:29 AM, Friday, December 29th]

Take some time to process all that has gone on the last few weeks. Your emotions are going to be all over the place. Give yourself some grace and take care of you. You will figure out what you want.

Your WW’s infidelity seems like so many others. Not uncommon. They all involve infatuation, betrayal, selfish behavior, disrespect to one degree or another. Your WW’s A is no different. Although that doesn’t help the pain you are feeling. None of us knows your WW as you do. If she is serious about R she has a lot of work to do of her own. Always value yourself. No WS is entitled to R. You are in control. If you decide your WW is worthy of an attempt to recover and try R, watch her actions not her words. I’m sorry you are in this situation. Stop seeing yourself as weak. Value yourself. You deserve a faithful partner. Both D and R are paths out of infidelity. Right now you need to take time to deal with all of your emotions. If her infidelity is a dealbreaker you will figure it out. Good luck.

BrlyWtr, there is a big difference between hoping and expecting. I'm sure you have plenty of reasons to hope that your wife is ready to turn a new leaf, never cheat again, and fully commit to reconciliation. Those reasons to hope include you still loving her, not wanting to make your children deal with the change, and worrying what it will be like to be single for the first time in a decade. But please go back and read all of your posts in this tread (click on your profile, then "Recent posts," then the eyeball icon), and tell me where you see any good reason to expect your wife is ready and committed to change.

I respectfully contend that your wife has given no evidence based on actions that she truly wants to reconcile and fundamentally change her behavior. She knows that you are hoping more than anything in the world to stay together, and that she can dangle (through her words) the prospect of reconciliation and it will cause you to inhale a massive hit of "hopium" that will make you abandon evidence and come running back. If your WW knows that you are not actually ready to do what is necessary to remove yourself from infidelity, they see your tough words as idle threats and have little reason to change their ways. But please read The1stWife's story and consistent advice to others. When waywards realize you mean it about being willing to end things (and you have to mean it) they can no longer use hopium to string you along.

BrlyWtr: at the end of the day, this is your life. None of us can make you do anything. If you choose to pursue one-sided reconciliation despite your wife's clear pattern of behavior, that is your choice. You have your reasons. But let's be clear on whether they are reasons to hope for or reasons to expect the outcome you have in mind.

[This message edited by SicTransitGloria at 3:08 AM, Friday, December 29th]

I can hardly imagine the pain you are in right now. On top of the catastrophe your wife rained down on you, you find thousands of messages of correspondence of the worst filth. I’m so sorry, so so sorry. Please, sir, take care of yourself. This is a top level trauma in your life.

I completely understand your instinct to desire reconciliation if there is even a shred of hope. I myself am on a similar journey and have been called delusional here. I know how you feel about that. Know that for as much wisdom as there is here about infidelity, there are no crystal balls behind any of the posters. No one knows the future, we all just make our best guesses based off our experiences. My experience says to me that you are in an incredibly difficult situation, and an attempt at R is going to be immensely painful.

If you choose that path, you will benefit more than you can imagine by staying connected to this community. We will tell you things you don’t want to hear and things you don’t want to believe, but you will get so much support. I’m praying for you tonight.

Posting as the Attache – an unclear role that allows me the freedom of posting stuff like this…

Fellow posters

I urge you to keep the guidelines in mind when posting.
Especially that we please refrain from name calling, attacking or shaming.

Brlywtr is doing about as well or badly as about nearly all of us betrayed spouses this close to our d-day. It’s the exceptional few that are decisive and react "correctly" as each and every one of us defines "correct". We can point and even nudge him in what we might think is the correct direction, but please refrain from bullying him or shaming him to do what you might consider "right". A firm or direct message can be delivered without crossing the guideline.

Suggesting he grow a pair, have some self-respect or grow a spine is at the very least bordering on breaking the following guideline and is more likely to drive Brlywtr away than do him any good.

NAMING, FLAMING & SHAMING: Please refrain from name calling, attacking or shaming, publicly or by using the SI.com Private Message feature. Do not bait or call out others. This includes members and non-members.

Have you exposed her A to her parents, siblings or close friends? The right people can potentially help bring her to her senses and exposure pours the cold light of day on her fantasy and series of dopamine hits she is taking.

Sammich, you have a pm.

Hey Brlywtr, I’m thinking about you and hoping you find some peace this holiday season as unlikely as that is. I’m also hoping you can figure things out for your situation. But let me say this, I was not able to early on and you are surely early in your discovery. I don’t want you to think I’m condemning you for not following everything I or others have advised you to do. I was on a different site then but I ignored everyone’s advice and followed my heart. This led to pick me and just trying to win her back by being the best husband I knew how to be. I was so dejected when this did not work. I had stopped visiting the website because I felt bad after reading the comments. But I revisited the site when I was pretty sure I was going to lose my wife. And I guess it was because I tried to follow my heart and try to "nice" her back to me that had failed spectacularly that I read the comments with a different mindset. With no other option, I started to behave differently towards her. I filed for divorce. I started hanging out with buddies. And I started to separate myself from my wife. I can tell you that I could not see an immediate change in her behavior towards me, but after two or three weeks of single minded actions to escape from infidelity, I began to see a change. I can also report that she says she noticed immediately but was used to certain behaviors from me and it took her a while to understand I was leaving her. She says in her wayward mind, she did not think I was capable of leaving her. She was entitled for sure. I said all of this to say, you cannot be afraid to lose your wife if she wants to go. Help her to the door. Many times as you are ushering her to the door will she look at you differently.

This^^^^^^^^^

Dennylast's post is spot on.

Hope you are doing better.

I also think Dennylast is on point. When I was in your shoes, shocked and traumatized, I could only take so much, and looking back I don’t think any amount of willing myself to listen to internet strangers would have worked. So we will tell you what we’ve experienced and what we believe we’ve learned, and you can take what resonates in the spot you are in. Do what you can, it will be better one day, as hard as that is to believe.

So for where you are at, I believe that the worst thing you can do is accept her back at all costs, as in try to rugsweep the whole thing. That is a straight path to sustained misery. You need to insist on truth and remorse and your wife going deep on why she would do something to awful. But it doesn’t have to all be done today and it doesn’t have to be done perfectly. Take what steps you are able to in a good direction, and then get up tomorrow and do it again. You got this.

One other point about this topic.

When you think about it, no matter what type of relationship... be it business, friendly, or personal... the person that has the least invested, and the least interest in the outcome, holds the Most Power in the relationship.

Right now your wayward wife is holding the most power in your marriage. It is when she realizes that you have lost interest in remaining married to her... that You Are Going Your Own Way (with respect to Fleetwood Mac)... that she might begin to see her power diminish. Right now she is desired by two men. When the more responsible man in this quagmire of a three way relationship begins pulling away from her, you will see her begin to act differently.

We are all pulling for you to get out of infidelity.

It is when she realizes that you have lost interest in remaining married to her... that You Are Going Your Own Way (with respect to Fleetwood Mac)... that she might begin to see her power diminish.

I would just say that as a BS you don't have to have lost interest in remaining married to reclaim this power. You just need to make it clear that you are setting clear boundaries and that you will no longer accept living with infidelity. My WS only came off the fence when I finally made a clear statement that I loved her and wanted to stay with her, but that I would not wait indefinitely for her to chose that. I meant it. I set a date for leaving and she didn't get to know when that would be.

Some WSs might take an expression of "lost interest" as validation for their actions. "He's going to leave anyway so I have to make this work with the AP." My WS needed to know that I was committed to trying to make it work. In retrospect I did way too much of the heavy lifting on that, but it never would have worked if she believed I wasn't willing to try.

Seeking...

I think I probably worded that wrong when I said losing interest.

We had been talking throughout the thread about him doing the 180 while she was still with the AP. The 180 is about pulling back and not following her around like a puppy, etc. I probably should have used other words.

I’m in the same boat with you except I’m a woman and my husband is the one doing this to me. I know your pain and would love to know how you are doing now.