SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My experience with infidelity happened many years ago. The situation is somewhat different from that of AhurtHusband, but I can really relate. Major rugs weeping by my wife and I. I had a disaster with first attempts at counseling followed by more rugs weeping. Decades later, no infidelity but, major trigger has me primarily/wife back to the beginning.

This time around Individual counseling for me is helping with the PTSD, good progress. I said to myself; I won't do this alone anymore.

Baby steps for my WW, she feels shame, but reluctant to getting help.

DoinBetter, your last post gives the most clarity on moving forward with the proper counseling. You are very wise and/or experienced. I've struggled with where to put my efforts, your post makes it perfectly clear. Thanks I hope to see you post more. You have a lot to offer.

** Not Posting as Staff **

** Venting **

And no matter what anyone tells you, the idea that you can have an even better marriage is 100%, TOTAL, and COMPLETE BULL$HIT!!!!!

This a violation of the 'no generalization' and 'show respect' guidelines.

Numerous members have posted the opposite, and yet some posters continue to call them (including me) liars. That's pretty disrespectful.

These generalizations appear to come from one person's experience and observations of one person's acquaintances' Ms that are seen only from the outside. That is NOT enough data. It's not even have data - all it is is one person's impression of what is going on.

How come these same guidelines keep getting violated? What is in the doubters that requires them to reject what they see that's positive about R and accept the negative?

From now on, even 10/20/30 years from now if you stay together, whenever she is 5 minutes late, you will wonder whose bed or backseat she is in at that moment. Anytime she gets a text at home, you will wonder if it is some guy and they are planning their next visit, and when you make love to her and she closes her eyes, you will wonder if she is fantasizing about "him" or some other guy.

That's not my experience at all, and not because my W cheated with a woman.

If I had had any expectation that those thoughts would come up 10 years in the future, I probably would have chosen D.

What will it take for doubters to accept that R works best for some people, just as D works best for others?

HurtHusband

How are you doing?

Hi Stevesn,

Sorry for the lack of updating. I’m going through IC which has been helpful and joined a support group as well. I’m following through on my 2 month pause of any decisions. I’m letting my relationship with my WW continue to see what R looks like and, to her credit, she’s actually been all I could ask (transparent, remorseful, patient and supportive).

But it’s still a daily challenge. I have to actively fight through it. Sleeping has been difficult, but my health has improved. I’m down 20lbs in 2-1/2 weeks from healthy choices. I’m going to continue to better myself.

We start MC on Thursday and we’ll see where that takes us. We started reading Linda McDonalds how to help you partner heal from your affair (or something like that, it’s one of the recommended books on this site).

AhurtHusband,

Further to Sisoons post above:

From now on, even 10/20/30 years from now if you stay together, whenever she is 5 minutes late, [and so on and so on…]

This site tends to have two types of posters: Those that think a marriage can reconcile from infidelity and those that think a marriage can never reconcile from infidelity.

I’m definitely in the former group. I think marriages CAN reconcile, and I think this very site is a testament to that. First time you came here you were greeted by a page informing you that the founders had reconciled, and a dedication by the then-betrayed husband to his late-wife and cofounder. Not to mention we have a great number of posters that have reconciled

Now… What CAN means is exactly that – can. It’s possible. That’s not the same as easy, should always be done, the only route or have to or anything like that. It’s exactly what it implies: if things line up and both want to and are willing to make the sacrifices and do the work… it’s possible.
What thinking a marriage can NEVER reconcile means is that the only good, sane and logical path out is divorce.

Divorce is easy to understand. You go your separate ways, and if done correctly the only need to interact might be regarding kids. It’s a very good path out of infidelity and in very many instances it’s the only option open for the betrayed spouse. I guess I more-or-less equally guide people towards D as I do R.

Reconciliation… that’s a tougher nut… Simply remaining married or simply not divorcing is NOT reconciling. That’s trying to live with a big elephant in the marriage. You see loads of threads here from people that are still dealing with trauma-pain years and years after d-day. You see posters insisting that they will stick around until the kids leave for college in 12 years or so…
Reconciliation is tough. Its so much more than the initial 1-2 years of dealing with the infidelity. It’s an ongoing commitment to create a marriage where you both have what you envisioned from the marriage and are both working at personal and joint betterment.

I have used this comparison in the past: It’s like you have a serious health-scare like a cardiac arrest. Once you recover you reflect on your life and lifestyle. You stop smoking, stop eating fast-food for breakfast, lunch and dinner, get off the couch and start walking, organize your finances and work to lower stress, go to the gym, read rather than binge-watch Friends for the umpteenth time, cut back on your booze…
First time you try to jog a mile you feel like you are dying again, and your lungs want to leave the body… Yet you persist…
Two years from leaving the ER you might be in better shape than the previous ten.
If you quit there and then chances are you would be back in the fat, smoking again and all that within a year.
If however you maintained a reasonable healthy lifestyle then your daily 3 mile jog is enjoyable and relaxing, you enjoy the effort because you reap the gain.

This is what reconciliation truly is… It’s a decision from both of you to work on the marriage, to work on personal growth and to do so regularly and in an organized or planned manner. That "planned manner" can be such mundane things like a chore-schedule so the housework is in agreement, a monthly budget-night so the finances are in order, doing the groceries together once a week… heck… my wife and I went to the gym at the same time despite being in totally separate programs (she hot-yoga, me weights) simply to a) be together and b) utilize time that normally was separate.
It can also be marriage-oriented things like a regular date-night, quarterly couples-weekends, twice-a-year do what she/he wants like go to a theater or gallery…

Its whatever you two agree on as a tool for you both to feel good and therefore the marriage to be better.

Reconciliation is possible – if both have this goal. However this trip can also lead to one or both of you discovering that maybe you have grown apart. It can lead to divorce. But that’s what sometimes happens in marriage irrespective of infidelity.

Now – IF you really feel fear and pain 10/20/30 years from now because your wife is late… I put it to you that you two didn’t do the work… You ignored the elephant. Both in the sense that you are experiencing discomfort from a relatively small deviation, but also because the work of R should both make you fine with calling her and checking (if that was what you needed) and/or her showing the initiative of letting you know she’s late and why.

It’s your call AhurtHusband. IMHO you haven’t decided if you want to divorce or reconcile. Both paths are open to you and you and only you can decide which one is the one you want to try. But I do warn you against getting too comfortable with no definite decision… I would guess that within 2-3 months you should either tell your wife that sorry but this is too much for you OR that you want to reconcile but then outline what you want.
It’s a given that you want that she doesn’t cheat, but I encourage you to go further than that and that you outline what you want your marriage to be.

Finally – If I stick to the cardiac-arrest comparison:
Maybe 5 years after being rushed to ER and having paddles applied to your chest you might sit down and reflect on your life. Due to your changed lifestyle you are in good shape, good health, stress-free, paid all your bills… and you might be thinking "thank God I made all these changes after that near-death experience". What you would NOT be thinking is "thank God I nearly died. That led to such changes".
Just like you could have improved your life BEFORE nearly dying, you realize you could have your ideal (but undeniably infidelity-tainted) marriage without her having had an affair. But it is what it is.

Like I have said several times: Both R and D are open for you and IMHO you are doing yourself a disservice in delaying too long in deciding either path. How long? Well… right now its more recovering than healing… like catching your breath and staunching the bleeding rather than applying stiches and taking the meds… I would suggest you commit fully to either R or D in the next 3-6 months at the max.
The MAIN pitfall IMHO is to grow comfortable in neither, and then pretend you reconciled simply because you didn’t divorce.

The MAIN pitfall IMHO is to grow comfortable in neither, and then pretend you reconciled simply because you didn’t divorce.

Or simply because she hasn’t, yet, cheated again.

Excellent post, Bigger.

Yes, avoid limbo. If you’re unsure, find yourselves languishing, start down the R path and see where that takes you. Start purposefully, with the intent of building something new, special and better.

I have seen and know people who have successfully reconciled and some of them swear that their marriage didn’t just survive infidelity, but is actually thriving, more sustainably, than before the A. Many times the very same issues that predisposed the WS to cheat, also effected other very important aspects required for a healthy marriage, such as true emotional intimacy. Once these issues were therapeutically addressed, it opened up an almost entirely different, improved relationship.

I think a marriage that survives the crucible of genuine reconciliation after infidelity easily qualifies as something truly special, precious, exclusive, battle tested and hard earned.

Sir, first of all, my commiserations upon you finding out youve been heinously betrayed yet again. I barely made it through one such betrayal many years ago and cant imagine facing marital/relational treason twice in my life with two different women. Of cource the trauma multiplier in my story was that it was with my then wife and ex best friend, a dual betrayal, so in that regard, I understand to some degree.

Ive been following your story since you first posted but held off responding, wanting to read more before tossing in my own two cents. The following sentence prompts my response to you this morning (happy 4th btw):

I’m following through on my 2 month pause of any decisions.

My response to this? Good. Very good. In fact, slow your roll even more. Maybe to the point of 180. Here's why.

Youve received great input here already about the tactical aspects of dealing with your betrayal. Youve also been encouraged to consider the fact that R is possible and I wont argue for or against those statements except to say I tried to R for about a decade and it was excruciatingly painful. I now know that if I had it to do all over again, I would have ended the marriage as quickly as possible but that is just me in hindsight.

The one factor I want you to take in consideration that is alluded to many times but is not given the amount of credence it deserves imo is the change that takes place in the soul of the betrayed post Dday. It happens to us all to some degree and, due to the sheer level of trauma (second only to the death of a spouse according to the Holmes-Rehe stess inventory) it changes us forever. Ive likened it to having my soul torqued on some metal press from hell. One of the most revelatory exercises I ever did in therapy was to be given an extensive list of personality traits and describe myself pre and post betrayal and the guy who came out the other side was so changed, it was like describing two different people. All that to say, while you're trying to figure out who this woman is that you are technically married to and whether your marriage is worth salvaging on its own merits (I have many thoughts here but will hold my water for now), you are in the midst of a massive core life change, a metamorphasis if you will, and dont yet know what that looks like. So, yes, Take. Your. Time. Stop focusing on externals, and focus on the internals for as long as needed. As one well known poster here said (paraphrasing), "If she can f around on me for months, I can take as long as I need to sort myself out". Indeed.

I have more to say about future risk management and the cost of R and D but Ill save that for now.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:17 AM, Monday, July 10th]

Bigger, great analogies. After two months I’m definitely going to be leaning one way or another . A lot will be judged on hire my WW has acted etc. but a lot (mostly) will be dependent on how I feel internally. I had a very good day yesterday, but it was followed by probably the worst night I’ve had since d-day. But overall I’ve slowly felt a tiny bit better over the almost 3 weeks since finding out.

What you need to do is make yourself strong enough to make decision. Take up some hobbies. Start catching up with friends and family.

One thing to add. As you assess yourself and what you want while weighing out R or D, maybe spend some time reading in tbe Divorce/Seperation (sobering) & Reconciliation (even more sobering imo) forums on this site.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 11:31 AM, Monday, July 10th]

Thanks for everyone’s input. It’s been very helpful. My wife and I are working together on this. She wants to reconcile but I’m not committing to that. I am walking that path if you will, in that we’re both in IC and also MC together. We read a lot and that’s helpful. Each day seems to be getting better but there are still triggers etc.

It would be normal for you to still have triggers. At this stage of the game, it's normal to be where you're at.

Both do IC first and heal/recover. When you're at a good spot, then MC to help repair the M. Your M didn't fall, your cheating spouse did.

have you decided what to do with obs? is ap still in the picture somehow?

So sorry your going through this. I have not posted on here in a very long time. My 10 year anniversary is coming up as my Husband cheated on me 10 years ago...July 31, 2013 is when I found out. Forgiveness is a gift to the other person. It's the most precious gift you can give anyone. Also, her cheating has nothing to do with you. It's her issue. I stayed with my Husband and it wasn't easy. We went to counseling. For me...to make it worse...the woman who my husband cheated with decided to stalk me. I had to take her to court. It's was a real live Fatal Attraction like the movie. It's a long road. When I look back and if had the chance to do it again... I probably would have not stayed. He knows if he ever does it again..I'm gone ! I'll back a trailer up to our house and empty it when he's not around. I think he suffers with more pain than I do. I don't treat him the same. I'm a hard ass towards everything he does. Think long and hard. It's not easy. I do love him...but I love me more. I absolutely come first in our marriage now based on what he did. He caters to me for sure.

So sorry your going through this. I have not posted on here in a very long time. My 10 year anniversary is coming up as my Husband cheated on me 10 years ago...July 31, 2013 is when I found out. Forgiveness is a gift to the other person. It's the most precious gift you can give anyone. Also, her cheating has nothing to do with you. It's her issue. I stayed with my Husband and it wasn't easy. We went to counseling. For me...to make it worse...the woman who my husband cheated with decided to stalk me. I had to take her to court. It's was a real live Fatal Attraction like the movie. It's a long road. When I look back and if had the chance to do it again... I probably would have not stayed. He knows if he ever does it again..I'm gone ! I'll back a trailer up to our house and empty it when he's not around. I think he suffers with more pain than I do. I don't treat him the same. I'm a hard ass towards everything he does. Think long and hard. It's not easy. I do love him...but I love me more. I absolutely come first in our marriage now based on what he did. He caters to me for sure.

So sorry your going through this. I have not posted on here in a very long time. My 10 year anniversary is coming up as my Husband cheated on me 10 years ago...July 31, 2013 is when I found out. Forgiveness is a gift to the other person. It's the most precious gift you can give anyone. Also, her cheating has nothing to do with you. It's her issue. I stayed with my Husband and it wasn't easy. We went to counseling. For me...to make it worse...the woman who my husband cheated with decided to stalk me. I had to take her to court. It's was a real live Fatal Attraction like the movie. It's a long road. When I look back and if had the chance to do it again... I probably would have not stayed. He knows if he ever does it again..I'm gone ! I'll back a trailer up to our house and empty it when he's not around. I think he suffers with more pain than I do. I don't treat him the same. I'm a hard ass towards everything he does. Think long and hard. It's not easy. I do love him...but I love me more. I absolutely come first in our marriage now based on what he did. He caters to me for sure.

How have things been progressing?

Just came back from a family vacation. Had some great times and a couple very bad days. I keep battling myself. The larger part of me wants to work through this, put the effort in, etc. But there’s a small part of me that wants to dump her, walk away and never look back other than for our kids. I’m building resentment because I was a great husband before. We had some issues, but nothing that was even close to having someone make the decision to cheat. Now I have to do a TON of heavy lifting to work through a problem I didn’t create and ultimately at the end of the day, she’s going to be rewarded with an even better husband. Reconciliation really is the ultimate have your cake and eat it too. Has anyone fought through the resentments that build?

I think your feelings are spot on and normal. The entire scenario is totally unfair to the BS. If you are going to work on a successful R, you will have to find a way to build a relationship knowing the unfairness will always exist. In our M, I was enmeshed in the unfairness for a long time, but my fWW was very consistent in her actions to show she really wanted our M. It was her consistent effort and commitment. After a period I knew I needed to appreciate what we had at the moment if we were going to successfully R. Eventually, the feelings of resentment and unfairness have been replaced by new, positive memories.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:32 AM, Tuesday, July 25th]

Reconciliation really is the ultimate have your cake and eat it too. Has anyone fought through the resentments that build?

This is currently the most difficult thing for me to get over. In some ways, that is the reality. But...when is anything ever perfect, exactly the way we want?

I think it is more important for you to continue working on yourself, for yourself and your kids. And you decide whether or not to stay with your wife if you feel that is what is good for you.

The optics of it (cake eating, WW seemingly being rewarded) can certainly cause second guessing and confusion, so perhaps better not to focus on that and just look at what you need.

[This message edited by LostOpportunities20 at 2:29 AM, Tuesday, July 25th]