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I found out about the EA 01/15/16. Today found out he had affair when we first started dating(31 yrs ago) We have been married 25. He is still claiming that he never had sex with the EA. I not so sure, but I guess time will tell. It took him 30 yrs to tell me about the first one. I don't have 30 yrs to wait for the second confession.

I found out about the EA two weeks ago. It rocked me to my core. I should've seen it coming. I watched their friendship develop in front of my eyes. We all worked together.

My gf of 11 years started working with OW instead of me (we were all cleaners and some tasks were 2-person tasks) leaving me on my own. I spoke to her about it, she said it wasn't intentional to leave me out and I should include myself mode. That was early June.

End of June and they were inseparable at work, I was more sidelined and I could see her behaviour was different around OW. They texted, my gf started taking her phone everywhere, started wearing make up. We had crisis talks, I said I couldn't carry on being sidelined, watching them. She said it wasn't wrong to have a friend, that I couldn't tell her who she could talk to. But when I suggested separating she begged me not to leave, said she never wanted to lose me. So we tried.

Things got better for a few weeks, OW wasn't around much at work but I'm sure they still text. On 18th July gf orchestrated it she and OW worked together, unnecessarily, for the whole afternoon. And apparently enjoyed if immensely. It was that night she told me. Well she didn't actually tell me she just cried. I had to guess. She has still never said the words.

She said she was confused and didn't know what to do. I said I couldn't live in limbo for weeks. She went for a walk came back and decided she wanted to see where things went with OW. So I packed and left and that was that.

I text her earlier about some post she was meant to send me last week but can't get hold of her. I rang too (it's important post) but no answer. Gf lives in a caravan on a camp site and knows noone there except OW, chances are they're together right now. I feel SICK.

JulieB and PinkGrapefruit, I am so sorry you are here.

I heard all that crap about "you just dont want me to have friends!" too. Well, no, it's not that I dont want you to have friends, it's that I DONT WANT YOU TO HAVE FRIENDS YOU ARE ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED WITH!

I think with EA's its easier for the WS to deny reality not only to us, but to themselves as well. After all, if they didn't sleep with the woman, it wasn't an affair, right? Its been 10 months NC for us, and just LAST WEEK, Mr. WP figured out he had been having an EA.

Uninformed idiots outside your relationship can also hurt you like that: "If (s)he didnt sleep with her, why are you so upset?".

We, as Betrayed partners, can even beat ourselves up the same way. I used to come on this board and read stories by people whose spouse of 20 or 30 years had been lying to them for decades, multiple OP's, bizarrely kinky PA's and SO MUCH HORROR, and think, what the hell am I doing here?

The truth is, your pain is yours. It doesnt matter what happened to anyone else. What happened to me (or anyone) doesn't make your pain any less.

I'm sorry you are here, but I'm thankful that you found your way to the board. The only thing worse than having to go through the pain of an EA is having to go through it alone. We are here for you.

We, as Betrayed partners, can even beat ourselves up the same way. I used to come on this board and read stories by people whose spouse of 20 or 30 years had been lying to them for decades, multiple OP's, bizarrely kinky PA's and SO MUCH HORROR, and think, what the hell am I doing here?

Even before I discovered SI, I felt this way from time to time. I hurt, but sometimes it felt to me that I was inappropriately upset. That maybe it really wasn't all that bad. It could have been worse, right? It didn't help that of course my WW didn't think what she had done was wrong, except for one incident that she felt went over the line and let to her partial confession. All the other sexual banter before that was okay, until I asked her what would have happened if I had been having the same conversation with another woman. That started the slow (and still ongoing) light bulb process.

I am new to SI, my D-day was just this past friday 8/17. You can read about it in the newly discovered message board (Emotional Affair Caught Hopefully In Time--I would title it differently now for sure). I came here because my wife is in an EA (still, and is refusing to give it up--I'm in the middle of going through kicking her out and moving on). I can so relate to what you are saying. Here's a few I can connect with:

1)The WS and their friends, and your friends, claiming that is not that bad because it was not sex

2)Your WS thinking that they can stay in it and you should be fine with it

3)The WS being possibly even deeper in the "fog" because they feel like the person is "just a friend"

One I will add..

4) The WS alternating between admitting that the EA is a real emotional connection and saying the person is just a "friend

My wife admitted that she had an "interest" in someone. When I asked her questions I could tell it was deep feeling, (more accurately deep infatuation) to the point where she got teary eyed at the prospect of not seeing him when I asked her to leave the A. Then, another time she want to see him and says he is just a friend.'

But then, since they have lied to us about this, we don't know if they are also lying about the lack of physical relationship. By the third day out of D Day I was still claiming that my wife "tells the truth when I ask her" and is usually honest. Well she lied for 2 months about this EA so she's not very honest is she? Now, I am very open to the likely possibility that it was full PA.

I was holding on to the thought that I would be repulsed if it was a PA to where I would not ever no matter what, do any R. But now, I know that R is such a long and involved process that involves her total remorse and I am not that concerned if it turns or has turned PA. I just want to catch her on that lie, for a few reasons.

Reading this thread, I see how unique the EA is. We are like a minority within the BSs that many people do not understand.

[This message edited by Duda at 2:58 AM, August 18th (Thursday)]

I am starting to get annoyed at how most people do not understand the EA. Those of us on the other end know what it can do. We know what the person tells us when they admit it and we know what it feels like. We know that it is a violation of trust.

But so many people think that if there is not sex, that it is not a big deal. Talking to friends or people you know, they don't get it. It gets annoying when people start asking you what you did wrong.

I just talked to a mutual friend of me and WW and she asked about the marriage and what was happening to lead to that. She went into marriage stuff. I know she meant well, but she didnt get the priority that my WW is still trying to stay with OM.

I even notice that some of the advice I get from people that have been through a PA, do not get what is like for us. Does anyone else feel this way?

Yes, absolutely. It is the most maddening thing. My story is a couple of pages ahead of you in this section.

The late, great Shirley Glass wrote something like, the betrayal is that you took something that was supposed to be mine (emotional intimacy) and gave it to someone else. You polluted our marriage. I am not special anymore.

That applies to EA as much as PA. ANd remember, your pain is your own. Nobody else has a right to tell you how you should feel or "that it could have been worse." It was bad enough as it is, why would anyone want it to be "worse"?

Duda

I don't post much because I usually can't help but write a book but I hear your pain this morning and I wanted to hop on and tell you that I understand what you are going through.

My H had 3 EA's and they were ALL traumatic. And yes, people do not understand EA's. My H, of course, initially denied that the OW"s were just friends, but it was our MC that straightened him out. Several months after Dday I was discussing the relationships with on of my closest friends and even she suggested that the relationships were "business friendships".

I'll touch base later, but I just wanted to say you are not alone

"Business Friendships" my ass.

I used to have a terrific business friendship with a male friend. He was a photographer and I modeled some, and he did most of my nudes for me. We got along great (both science geeks) and as time went on, we started to talk more about politics, books, movies, etc. We grew to be true friends.

I have another close friendship with a man who was once, in another lifetime, a lover. We bonded ultimately over our traumatic childhoods and FOO issues, and it is comforting to know that there is someone else in the world just about as fucked up as I am.

What makes these relationships friendships and nothing else? Boundaries, that's what. With both of these friends, I made it very clear that I am very married and I have no intention of wrecking my life with an affair. With the photographer friend, I made it very clear from the beginning that physical contact other than in a professional manner would not be tolerated. And I made very sure that these men also had no desire to become involved with a married woman.

That being said, I did not share personal issues in my marriage. I listened if they wanted to talk about something, but I did not become embroiled in their problems. My husband always knew he was first. My communication with them was an open book. I never professed to "love" them except in a "love ya, bro" kind of way.

Maintaining a friendship is all about boundaries.

When spouses cross the line into secretive sneakiness or professing their tender feelings to their AP or in my case to the BS him or her self, that is WRONG.

We BS's are not stupid. We didn't start off thinking every time the WS gets put on a project or in a vehicle with someone of the opposite sex, it is an affair. We don't take every functional work relationship as a threat. The LAST thing we want is to believe our WH is having an A. We only suspect it when we have good reason to. We only believe it and accept it when we have undeniable evidence.

There is a clear line between "friendship" and "not just friends." Every BS knows it.

I didn't tell family or friends about the first EA mostly because I did not need it to be minimized. Finally after this last Dday, I told my friend and sister, this was after being silent for 5 months. I received the support I needed and they did not minimize it. I think this and IC helped me to be strong enough to say I wanted a formal separation. He still insists he did nothing physically but it took him 5 years to admit a pa with the first ow. He still wants the marriage despite the formal separation. It takes a year to get a divorce in my country...so 10 more months to go. In house separation and EA's are a special kind of hell. I did overhear them talking about spending time together and ow saying it would not happen again and a big sigh from him. I think it was some sort of PA not that it will change anything.

I know no one can give an exact number, but seriously, what are the chances that a supposed EA didn't turn in to a PA, or wasn't a PA?

BS lie so much, and in my case always "lied to PROTECT my feelings", how do we know it wasn't a PA?

Is it just better to assume it was?

If I had to guess, it's more than 90% of EA are also PA. At least that's what I gather from the many stories here on SI.

Some EA's are long distance with no physical contact.

I also believe there is a small % of EA that never progress to anything sexual or romantic in nature. But the contact is frequent and secret, such that it goes way beyond an appropriate friendship.

I agree with WarriorPrincess regarding boundaries with friends. I'm in the off road motorsports business which is dominated by men and testosterone. I travel a lot with this business and have a couple of close friends who travel with me. I always made sure that my WH knew the people I was traveling with and was not insecure about it. I also made sure to always invite him on these trips. I only ever discussed marital issues with one of them when he noticed that something was wrong, but we discussed ways for me to resolve my marriage issues as he had been divorced twice. I have never crossed that emotional line with another man. I have never said anything to another man that would in any way embarrass or humiliate my WH. I went so far as to never have drank alcohol when away on these trips, again out of respect for my WH who could be a little insecure at times. I had seen things happen on these trips with other people, and I never wanted my WH to worry about me. There's nothing worse than a drunken married person flirting with someone other than their partner.

Turns out my WH is the King of EA's. He's now on EA #6. So much for mutual respect.

I'm so sad to hear that, Crinkle.

One more thing that really sucked for me was, I knew about this tramp and was OK with him being normal friends with her. I really didn't think any thing of it, until I found out that he wanted to keep secrets from me and had been talking shit about me to her.

I'm so sad to hear that, Crinkle.

One more thing that really sucked for me was, I knew about this tramp and was OK with him being normal friends with her. I really didn't think any thing of it, until I found out that he wanted to keep secrets from me and had been talking shit about me to her.

An EA is just as damaging as a PA. So you didn't f. But you told your hopes, dreams, issues with life and then (in my case) got sent pictures of tits and ass to make you feel better. It's a selfish way of thinking, living. It is a betrayal of vows and a life you have built together. It hurts the same. I honestly wish it was a ONS with someone he didn't know. Because in an EA they give everything that should be yours, dreams,thought,wishes,feelings to someone else. Wowser I guess I am still very angry.

I guess I belong to this group only too. I'm pretty sure there was no contact as it would have destroyed his life and being the selfish, self centered, highly respected Christian man, and the fact that she was almost like family (his sister married her brother) he wouldn't have dared take the chance. The problem: his stalking her for 3 years on FB. Our marriage wasn't great the last 6 years (in bed) but I didn't ask for Prozac to throw me into paranoia and deep depression. I was only taking it for menopausal depression which wasn't really that bad, how ironic. He knew I would occasionally use his FB account because I only accepted my friends and family and he accepted any and everyone. Long story short---I went to search and accidentally hit edit. Did not know it would bring up his activity log. I was flabbergasted to see how many times in that 3 year period he had been to her page. A little over 3 years ago we lost our daughter to an accidental overdose. That night, when I went to bed, he stayed up. I know why now. He went to her page twice that night. This all came to light last year and all hell broke loose. Said he was just curious and did not do anything wrong and still to this very day denies any wrongdoing. For 3 years and on the night our daughter died???? I replied fantasizing is not being just curious. Whew, that didn't go over too well but in my heart, under the conditions of our marriage at that time, and knowing how important sex was too him, I knew that's exactly where he was. Ok we are not kids, mid-sixties, married 45 years this year, and I had to deal with all this after losing my child? The most hurtful part was that when I really needed him, the darkest hour of my life, I saw where he was. Said he just wanted to read good comments about his daughter and he knew she would have done so. Who cares about good comments when all you want to do is die? God says we must forgive, I've learned you don't really forgive a pain this deep, you just stop caring. Something is missing now....love and respect. It's his loss cause I have been a good wife. Now, at 65, I'm just waiting to see my child again. Nothing else matters anymore. How sad?

(((Mountain3)))

Welcome to SI.

Sorry you're here but it's a good place to find support. Go post in JFO forum.

An emotional affair can be as equally devastating as a physical affair, in some cases more so. I've been thru both and in reality the EA is trickier to get the BS to understand how much he's hurting you. It's all about boundaries. Check out (book list and articles) in the Healing Library (tab in the yellow box at top left corner). I think Not Just Friends is one book about EA's. I your case, it sounds more like a fantasy A. Were they in contact personally (messages, texts, IM, phone?)? If so then go read about No Contact. If you're still trying to prove any suspicions then read threads on Just Found Out.

Also, something you said worries me and I highly recommend if you haven't done so yet...GO SEE your Individual Counselor, psychologist, psychiatrist, priest,... FIND somebody trained to talk to, because you are very depressed and after the loss of your dear daughter you could be at risk in harming yourself. Don't do anything. Go talk to someone. Make a call. Post and vent here (you are safe here). Your M and your WS aren't worth losing You!! You are worthy of love and respect and for his understanding of how you feel. It will come. He's in a fog. Breathe!!!

Many many good people on this site here are to help you thru this, but this particular thread may be a little quieter at times...go post on JFO. An EA is just as serious as a PA.

Keep swimming.

Thanks Amae for your concern. I will post on JFO just to see if anyone else sees this situation as I do. If a physical affair could hurt any worse, then Lord help me. I don't know if it's my personality or the way I was raised, but no one gets the chance to hurt me twice. I learned how to build a brick wall early in life and obviously it's still there. I do get through each day with pills, tried therapy but when the therapist said she had never experienced the loss of a loved one (she still had her grandparents) I knew a textbook wouldn't help me. I worked in mental health for years and knew she could tell me what I should do but if you have never experienced that kind of pain words are useless. I cry everyday when I'm alone cause obviously no one else is still mourning and I will go to my grave with tears rolling. If I could harm myself I would be long gone but as I told my doctor, don't even think of trying to keep me here. Regardless of my health I'm ready to go. I stopped living when she did but I am a firm believer that when my appointed day comes I will only be rid of this body. I started this post because of wanting other people's opinion and to warn other women that if "snooping" is needed who cares whether it's right or wrong. I didn't snoop cause it fell into my lap, but I would hate for young wives to feel like I do now. So many wasted years because it's plain that husbands that do this only love themselves. Again, thank you, I could read the concern in your words but I'm ok.

Mountain,

I lost my mother to suicide. I understand loss. I fear sometimes I'll go down her path as well. I also know there is hope. My sister lost her son of 4yr old to cancer, I know she lives that death over again every day, but she finds a way to keep going.

I am sure you know all about the resources available for parents losing a child, but if not, go there, too, and tell your story.

Prayer also, if you can.

Stay strong. You are still being heard. You are worthy of love. Here to listen any time you need.

A