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Just seeing if anyone posts to this thread recently. My husband has NPD; he was recently told by his counselor in therapy; I don't think he believes it..Anyways, we are both wanting to R, but I am just trying to see if others have successfully R with their NPD WS? My WH is regretful, but not remorseful. He promises he will never do this again, but everything I read, you need a remorseful spouse, but with his NPD, he def lacks remorse & true empathy. Hes doing a lot of things right, but many things wrong.

Anyone here?? Giving 1 last shot before I post in general.

I don't know any real statistics, but I'd say chances of R with any personality disordered (B, N, H) is slim to none.

It's who they are - their personality. That doesn't change without very significant introspection and work. But the very aspects of a PD, mean they really aren't into introspection or caring about your needs. Sad, but there it is.

Way back when my first Dday happened, my ex's therapist told her she thought ex might be BPD (ex dropped that therapist shortly thereafter - see above about introspection).

When I told my therapist he said it would be AT LEAST two years of her working on herself before she could even being to help me heal. He then said in 30 years of being a therapist, he'd never seen someone with BPD change.

I tried to make it work for another seven years and multiple Ddays before I threw in the towel.

YMMV

[This message edited by WornDown at 9:21 PM, August 6th (Monday)]

Thank you for sharing your experience. My WH was given his dx, but not sure he believes it or if he does, doesn't think its a problem. Its been hard working with his personality & dealing with the aftermath of what has happened.

doesn't think its a problem.

And there is the problem with the personality disordered - they think there's nothing wrong with themselves, it's everyone else that has the issues.

My wife's SIL almost certainly has a personality disorder. I have always thought that she was borderline, but a recent discussion with a different SIL suggested that NPD was more likely.

I have had my own mental health struggles, so I know (for example) that Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is recommended for folks with borderline personality disorders. Is there a similar therapy/treatment for NPD?

I'm just curious... because...

And there is the problem with the personality disordered - they think there's nothing wrong with themselves, it's everyone else that has the issues.

This describes my SIL precisely.

Its interesting you say that (while I know that is true because its what my therapist told me), but my WH said if he does have it, then he used it to his advantage because that's how he got ahead in life (regarding his career etc) so it almost seemed that while he didn't think it described him, if it is true, then it surely helped him advance.

WH said if he does have it, then he used it to his advantage because that's how he got ahead in life

Most things in life have advantages and disadvantages.

Could his putative-NPD help him have a successful career? Sure, maybe.

Would you trade "being an asshole, a liar, and a cheat" for a successful career?

I wouldn't.

It's concerning that he is trying to rationalize his bad behavior by saying it made him successful. It's another hint that he has little regret and that he has no desire to change.

Its interesting you say that (while I know that is true because its what my therapist told me), but my WH said if he does have it, then he used it to his advantage because that's how he got ahead in life (regarding his career etc) so it almost seemed that while he didn't think it described him, if it is true, then it surely helped him advance.

Well it did likely help him advance, bit it's not in the way he would have you believe. His sociopathic tendencies allow him to do just about anything without guilt or concern regarding consequences.

If someone needs to be stepped on to move him up a rung, he does it with no qualms at all.

I am divorced from a BPD woman. There was NO reconciling with her, the disorder is simply too much. I am not sure about NPD other than that to say, you will need to readjust what you thought your life was going to be like.

tikismom: I think you may have answered your own question:

My WH is regretful, but not remorseful. He promises he will never do this again, but everything I read, you need a remorseful spouse

Even with a "normal" person, you need a remorseful spouse who is willing to do the work in R. It take two people fully committed to R and to make a new marriage for it to work and it's very, very hard work. Remember, too, that he was diagnosed as NPD by his counselor. Although I'm sure you love him, you have to really think about this.

I hate how easily they can get into our heads. Seriously. Flying monkeys say something that is so clearly straight from the ex's mouth and even though it's the exact opposite of reality, it sends me into an emotional tailspin. I hate it. I'm not sure what to do about it though. It just messes with me over and over and over.

Today was another example... on top of a few over the last few days (he is bipolar in addition and so these things come in clumps) and today his flying monkey accused me of feeding my kids nothing but potatoes for 8 days. Seriously? And very clearly implied that I make my children cook and prepare all their own meals... and in front of a doctor's employee stated, "We let kids be kids at our house." I'm just frustrated and letting it get into my head...

irrelevancy - I don't know how old your kids are, but there's nothing wrong with teaching kids to cook, or to do any other household chore. I understand, though, as xwh here made out my giving the kids chores to do as being child labor or some other sinister thing. But, to the disordered, teaching children how to live independent of them IS a crime of high order - children MUST remain dependent, in order to remain "supply", don'tcha know?...

Is it just me? Or do your alarm bells ring louder when your "problem person" is acting reasonable/kind/nice/even generous to you? I am in that situation now, where I expected an ugly response full of blame, even if in passive-aggressive form, and, instead got reasonable and kind and agreeable.... It puts me into high alert now, wondering what he is up to, behind the scenes.... Am I the only one that reacts this way?

Tikismom, your story is startlingly similar to mine in the facts (except my DDay was so so recent), down to WH's response to possible NPD - that his personality had allowed him to "get ahead." In fact possible NPD has also created problems, specifically being denied entry into positions he was seeking by two separate individuals who said he was "too arrogant." I brushed it off and reassured him (fed the beast) at the time and shouldn't have.

Honestly I'm done with his shit and wish I had a clear diagnosis like you. He finally started IC when I said it was a dealbreaker (he was all about MC where his A and the state of our relationship could be both our faults) but we'll see how honest he is with IC, and with me about any diagnosis.

Wish I had an answer for you but all I've got is some good wishes for you sister, and the knowledge that we both will eventually find the clarity we need. Sending now <3

My WS was diagnosed with NPD tendencies but since detaching I'm pretty sure he is full blown NPD.

His latest abuse with silent treatment was the straw that broke the camels' back as I am now planning on leaving my STBX. I need to get away from him and heal. It became too much.

Just be careful and protect yourself (((tikismom)))

My former roommate from college was diagnosed with BPD as well as a whole host of other associated issues on the NPD spectrum and I reached out to her recently as I was told she had really made changes in herself and seemed to be a much more thoughtful person. She does seem different - and she's done a shit-ton of therapy after her 3rd suicide attempt (when she lived with me - I came home, found her, called 911 and was told I saved her life - only to be shunned by her for about 10 years because I told everyone about it in an attempt to let the cat out of the bag). She admits that she still struggles with grasping other people's feelings but because of the destruction she caused in her own lives and the lives of others and then getting pregnant, she wanted to change because she realized that she was missing out on "normal" was how she put it.

She also explained that while yeah, it is still all about her, she understands that being all about her doesn't mean that she has to be an asshole in the process. She still struggles with acceptance and gets caught up in her own emotions but realizes when that is happening - she pays more attention to the reactions of others and straight out asks people questions "did this bother you" or "is this okay with you" because she wants "normal" connections and has found that she does get pleasure from doing something that makes someone else happy - and that for her it's okay to do things for others for her own benefit (happiness to her) so long as they are happy too. So her focus now is on doing things that make her happy AND that don't hurt someone else - being aware of the consequences of her actions has taken her a long time and sometimes she misses the boat completely but that she keeps trying.

I think it's the best she can do. She said schema therapy/CBD and mindfulness practices have helped her the most. That and forcefully pausing to think about how she would react to something she is about to do/say to someone else.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:25 PM, October 4th (Friday)]

I have to vent and feel like I'm going crazy.

I am in-house separated until I can move into our rental home (hopefully in a couple of months). My NPD tried to hoover me by saying he is doing everything he can to make this easy on everyone and is sad for my pain. He also mentioned that I did not work on the M this year (I wasn't I was detaching because I was getting nowhere with him). So he is using that as his M.O. that I didn't work on the M and that contributed to this ending... whatever ... ok

He also told me that I talked about him to my family and close friends ( I did they were the only people in my corner he was still in the A without my knowledge). So he is trying to twist this as something I did that was 'bad.'

It gets better...

He started saying how uncomfortable the atmosphere is in the house. He's barely home and when he is we are not really talking and I've stopped my phone calls to him. Though he forgets the treatment that preceded my decision in separating. He started sleeping in another room on his own. Came home late most nights. He was giving me the silent treatment for the 100th time that I don't even know what I did. When I reminded him of how the silent treatment felt to me he told me "you are just catching up and your medication has you fucked up" WTF

I'm sure my psychiatrist would be thrilled to hear my STBX's diagnosis.

Sorry for the long rant it helps me to get it out rather than spin in my head.

Please tell me this gets easier after you leave

I'm wondering how everyone is doing who posted here about their NPD WS. Any new insights? Anyone making progress?

I have a question for anyone who's still reading here. Do you think my WH is NPD?

Still no diagnosis here but I'm becoming more certain during his attempts at R that WH is a covert manipulator.

He often waits to bring up things outside MC. The most ridiculous is the demand that I treat him as my moral equal. What?? You cheated, I didn't. I wasn't a dream to live with by any means, but how does this even make sense? He's joined a new church and is finding Jesus and sending flying church monkeys to my house.

He says all the right words, often straight out of whatever book he's reading, which go out the window when he starts a new book. It's like he's trying out different things to see what achieves the desired effect, and gets very offended and angry when I don't respond like I'm supposed to (either what the book told him or just whatever he expects). He rarely says anything to support this, but I see and feel the anger (not disappointment).

Near the end of last MC I called him out on his anger and hateful looks and he said "Yes! I am angry!" I talked to the counselor later (because I'm putting MC on hold, as it is not helping me heal) and she said she was completely surprised when he admitted he was angry. His mask and measured words had had her completely fooled up to that point. Meanwhile I was shaking from the level of hostility and dismissiveness that I felt.

I feel like I'm the only one that sees what is behind the mask. People close to us see that there is something odd and detached about him, and not a few think he is aloof or even arrogant. One of his best friends told BF's wife, "Still waters run deep." He meant it as a compliment, but I take it as... They run deep and dark and scary.

He is doing everything HE thinks should be done for reconciliation, and is not really hearing me. When I said he still hasn't answered what made it ok for him to have an affair, he said very sarcastically, "Oh so there's something wrong with ME?" Um, yes, and I'm not really interested in being with someone who continually refers to the affair as a "mistake" and thinks he just needs to make better choices, improve communication (both of our responsibility of course) and everything will be fine.

So I'm trying to figure out where to go from here and how to manage him. I'm afraid that if he is indeed NPD then if I make it clear that we are done, he will inflict harm on me financially and my reputation. However, it's clear to me that I have to get tough or his tactics will never change and I will never be able to R. I'm afraid to express exactly what my concerns about him are, as I believe he will present anything I say as emotional abuse if I try to pursue a Fault D. Yet I need him to address these concerns with his IC.

I'm in a catch-22 and need to know: is he covert NPD or just exhibiting normal selfish and defensive WS behaviours? So, my experts, what do you think? Is WH NPD?

Note: primary and possibly only reason I still want R is we have 2 young send who love their dad. Not that we didn't have great times in our marriage but they've always been overshadowed by unresolved not-so-great times IMO. I readily admit there's something wrong with me: I'm somewhat codependent and have suffered from poorly handled feelings of abandonment throughout our marriage.

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 10:32 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]

My humble two cents about NPDs...

The only way to deal with a true NPD is to cut them out of your life, or hope that they discard you and cut you out of theirs. These are broken people with destructive tendencies and a lack of giving a crap about the lives and goals and needs of others.

I've known a handful of people who strongly exhibit NPD behaviors. None have changed. They all continue to drag everyone down around them. I can only assume my ex-wife is acting similarly with the Shiny New Boyfriend, who by this point one year later probably isn't so shiny anymore. The point is, good luck trying to talk sense into these people and don't hold your breath waiting for them to magically transform into someone who cares. Any of us without NPD have a hard enough time transforming who we are, imagine how hard it is for someone with no conscientiousness.

Edit: And also, it's impossible for you to truly diagnose these people. Even mental health professionals can be fooled. And even normal people can get pissy and selfish from time to time. The question you want to ask yourself isn't "are they NPD", it's "can I really live with this person's behaviors for the rest of my life".

[This message edited by AbandonedGuy at 10:56 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]

Thank you, Abandoned. I'm sorry you've also had to deal with this. Even if we could be 100% sure our WS is broken, doesn't make this any less painful. So you are right, I know. I'll never have the certainty I'm looking for, and if I sit around waiting for it, I'll just end up in this same place again, looking at a journal from 10 years ago (yes, 2009) wondering why I didn't leave then.

You are wise, my friend thank you for saying what I needed to hear.

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 11:39 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]

I have a question for anyone who's still reading here. Do you think my WH is NPD?

Does it really matter if he is NPD or not?

Let's say he isn't. Does that make his behavior/treatment of you any better? Acceptable? No.

Let's say he is. Is he suddenly going to do the work (That so far, he hasn't even come close to doing (starting?)) to really change? Just because there's a label now? (Keep in mind - the PD rarely, if ever, change, diagnosed or not)

People get hung up on putting labels on others (for good or bad). The thing YOU need to be most concerned about is: What are his ACTIONS telling you? Is he becoming a safe partner? Is he actively working to rebuild the trust that he destroyed?

So you are right, I know. I'll never have the certainty I'm looking for, and if I sit around waiting for it, I'll just end up in this same place again, looking at a journal from 10 years ago (yes, 2009) wondering why I didn't leave then.

I think you've already answered my questions. And this one: So what are you going to do now?