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Hello!

I'm starting this topic on the one hand for some practical tips on how to handle fantasies, on the other hand to talk about a job I applied for.

I struggle with fantasies, often it's memories of APs, not sexual ones, (much of my affairs was fantasy only) just of regular stuff I remember about them (like university or school, where I met many people, or stuff they told me or I know about them). As a Sex, Love and Porn addict, there are some thoughts about porn, but very seldomly. Right now I stop them by saying a little prayer, that I want to focus on my BS or whatever I'm doing at this moment and not fantasize or obsess about anyone. Then I focus on what I'm doing or find something to distract me, like reading something, going through some plans on how to not objectify women in specific situations, singing, thinking of things I appreciate about my partner and some others. Can anyone help with stopping those thoughts or dealing with them?

And about the job, I paused university because I met lots of people there that I fantasized about and am now looking for jobs. I got a reply to an application I sent out, and it was from a woman (which I didn't know beforehand). When I got that reply and saw her name, I started thinking about whether she's attractive or not, there were some thoughts of if she had big breasts (which would make it harder for me not to look at them), later even the fantasy of what if we have sex at my interview - all before I even met her. I still went to the interview and she didn't look at all like my fantasies and seemed nice and is a lot older than me and I'm not attracted to her. During the interview, I had images of someone ejaculating on her face (which isn't the first time this happened and I will work on stopping that, too) I do think that my thoughts changed after the interview. At this job I would be alone with her (at this location, it's part of a larger corporation with HQ in another country) and often even be alone in the office. The main concerns we have with me taking this job is me continuing to fantasize about her and objectifying her at the office. But I would have my own office, so no line of sight while working at my desk and she would be out talking to clients a lot. It's a better job than I hoped for (more interesting and better pay than what I anticipated to get) and I'm excited about it. It would require some travel, but autumn 2021 at the earliest and contact with clients, but mostly over the phone or email. I would keep working on not fantasizing and can imagine that it would get better with time and as I got to know her better. I would also be open about my thoughts to my partner, my therapist and in 12 step meetings or with a sponsor, when I find one. Do you have any thoughts on how to deal with this and if it sounds safe to take this job?

Thanks in advance,

best53

Best, have you tried letting the fantasy play out past the "fun" stuff to the point where the shit hits the proverbial fan? I mean fantasies\affairs\porn\etc are great, until the consequences come due. And, as we all know, you're totally free to choose any damn choice you want, the hitch is you're also choosing the consequences and those pesky consequences aren't always known when the choice is made. Imagine after the fantasy sex she gets pregnant, you get an STD, the OBS is a psycho that decides to hunt you down, you get fired for sexual harrassment, your SO finds out, your family finds out, fantasy girl now hates your guts and regrets ever meeting you.

The other big factor, and one I'm familar with, is your fantasy girl may be the one for you. You may realize you're more compatible with her in various ways if you compare her to you're current partner. It happens. The fucked up thing is you've started a new relationship in the worst way possible. There are lies, deceptions, and assumptions and other shit that doesn't lend itself to building true intimacy or a legitimate bond.

You sound young and somewhat immature best53. Do you want to be in a relationship right now? Do you have the ability to delay gratification to reap greater rewards later?

Best, have you tried letting the fantasy play out past the "fun" stuff to the point where the shit hits the proverbial fan?

I have heard that tip but I'm not using it at the moment. But I think in this situation it could be a good idea. And the consequences you named are all ones I really wouldn't want to happen to me, I clearly wouldn't want to choose those.

You may realize you're more compatible with her in various ways if you compare her to you're current partner.

I get what you'Re saying, but she really isn't compatible with me at all. She's a lot older than me and in completetly different place in life, and I only met her once, I don't even know her enough to tell if I like her at all. But I do get that a relationship started in this way would be hard to feel safe and secure.

You sound young and somewhat immature best53. Do you want to be in a relationship right now? Do you have the ability to delay gratification to reap greater rewards later?

I am young and I believe that I can be really immature. What made me sound like that? I'm still working on whether I want to be in a relationship right now, but I think if it's possible I want to see what my partner and I can have. And delaying gratification often is and was a problem for me, but I believe it's getting better. Why do you ask?

Is your BS aware of just how constant and overwhelming your sex addiction is -- your need to objectify women and see them as sex objects, even women who don't attract you? Such a situation calls for intense therapy, and I really have to wonder if it can be done simultaneously with trying to salvage your existing relationship. My instinct is that repairing yourself and establishing healthy patterns is going to take all your focus, and that you are better off going it alone than whiplashing a partner along through your ups and downs. You are in no position to promise her safety and consistency right now.

Is your BS aware of just how constant and overwhelming your sex addiction is

Yes, she is aware of that. She also knows about the fantasies about this job. I'm better at being honest to her.

I really have to wonder if it can be done simultaneously with trying to salvage your existing relationship.

That is a question our couples counselor and I posed as well. I don't have an answer on if it'S possible, but I always thought I want to at least try to save the relationship. And in a way, isn't that something she has to decide?

Hi Best53, I commend you for being honest with us and your partner.

It strikes me that this sounds like sex addiction and objectification of women as BRD says.

However, it reads to me that these thoughts are unwelcome, intrusive, overwhelming, beyond your control? You are having counselling, but have you ever sought mental health help? Has anyone mentioned obsessive compulsive disorder to you? I am not a professional, but take a look at a mental health site that covers this topic and see if it makes sense to you.

OCD isn't always the hand washing\neatness etc often portrayed.

Best of luck to you

And in a way, isn't that something she has to decide?

Nope!

It’s a decision. One you both make. If this hurts her and your goal is to stop hurting her, then that’s your decision. The logical extension of your reasoning is “ There’s no satisfying her, she takes issue with how I objectify women, so I guess it’s her loss.”

This feels uncontrollable. I’ll tell you that I was at a similar point with using pornography- And I just got to the point where I was sick and tired of feeling empty. This was a hard-learned lesson for me because it was nearly a year after I broke my STBXBW’s resolve to R. Regardless, when the cost of demeaning myself and others became clearly too much, I simply stopped.

I have 12 Step brothers and sisters to help keep me from relapsing, but I can tell you that my urges to act out are surprisingly manageable and infrequent. That’s all the more reason for extra vigilance, mind you.

My circuitous point here is: You can choose to take the steps to change this behavior. It’s gonna take a lot of effort and investigation but it’s worth it. Take the time and own the decision.

However, it reads to me that these thoughts are unwelcome, intrusive, overwhelming, beyond your control?

They do come without my control and some plague me. They're not welcome, but I'm hesitant to say that they don't incite some positive feelings sometimes. The ejaculation over people's faces ones do disturb me and sone others as well, some of them in ways are positive images. But I still don't want to have them, because I see them as another way of objectification, in a way as unfaithful, they don't portray what I would call healthy sexuality and I want to live in reality, not fantasy. I'm in psychotherapy and I met with a psychiatrist once and I'll make an appointment again soon. I will check out whether OCD is something I could have, thank you for the tip.

It’s a decision. One you both make. If this hurts her and your goal is to stop hurting her, then that’s your decision. The logical extension of your reasoning is “ There’s no satisfying her, she takes issue with how I objectify women, so I guess it’s her loss.”

I get what you're saying. It's something we will have to think and talk about. It's not that I think there's no satisfying her, I know her staying can be conditional (for example on me stopping that behavior).

This feels uncontrollable.

It does feel uncontrollable. I managed to stop staring, but I struggle with talking to women without looking at their chest, even when I feel like I'm concentratig on their face and eyes I strongly notice their chest. I'm still working on not doing that, I'm in a twelve step fellowship as well (though I don't have a sponsor at the time) and in therapy, as I said.

I think you have been given very good advice . Look into pure OCD ; interestingly enough there is a British netflix show called “ pure “on this very subject

No stop sign. BS here. Recovering alcoholic and wife of an SA (also an alcoholic/addict).

I'm in a twelve step fellowship as well (though I don't have a sponsor at the time)

I have been sober for a long time and I am going to give you advice based on my experience as a fellow addict: You will not get better until you begin to really do the work. This means getting a sponsor and working the steps. This means multiple meetings per week where you share your struggles. It is suggested that you attend 90 meetings in 90 days. They are online, so this is an easily attainable goal. You need the support of other addicts to learn the tools necessary to deal with the compulsion, the obsession. This support will help you in dealing with the fantasies and uncontrollable thoughts. The idea is that you need to sit through the fantasies/obesssions and not act on them through porn, etc. You need support to learn how to do this. This is what meetings and a sponsor are for.

The fantasies will not just disappear without work on your part. In your post, I hear a lot of talk (i.e., agreeing that you need to take certain steps), but not a lot of action. The obsession CAN be lifted, but you will need to up your meeting attendance, listen and SHARE. You will need to participate willingly in the recovery process consistently and for the long term. You may be better at being honest with your partner, but how are you at being honest with yourself? Your relationship with reality seems pretty compromised.

I have heard that tip but I'm not using it at the moment. But I think in this situation it could be a good idea.

This is what addicts do, agree that they need to do something and do nothing. It is ADDICT BULLSHIT. Start taking suggestions and putting them into ACTION.

And in a way, isn't that something she has to decide?

Again, this is about ACTIONS. You are abdicating responsibility here.

I agree that OCD is an area that you might want to discuss with your therapist, but this does not REPLACE the fact that you have an addiction. Do you work with a CSAT? You need someone with experience in the area of SA.

Thank you for the tips on OCD. I looked into it and though I'm not sure, I think it's worth it to discuss with a professional, whether I have OCD and/or other mental problems.

You will not get better until you begin to really do the work. This means getting a sponsor and working the steps. This means multiple meetings per week where you share your struggles. It is suggested that you attend 90 meetings in 90 days.

I'm working on getting a sponsor now, I've got two numbers and I'm going to reach out today or tomorrow and I'm going to a meeting today and will ask there as well. I'm doing a 90 in 90 now. I have thought about it before, but I brushed it off as not possible (because of spending time with my partner). Through your post I realized that I'd never talked to her about it. I talked to her about it now and I'm going to do it.

The idea is that you need to sit through the fantasies/obesssions and not act on them through porn, etc. You need support to learn how to do this.

That for me isn't the problem. I haven't used porn in months and I haven't acted on them (or had the urge to act on them, really) in real life either. But the fantasies themselves are a problem.

The fantasies will not just disappear without work on your part. In your post, I hear a lot of talk (i.e., agreeing that you need to take certain steps), but not a lot of action.

I hear that. I can be slow with taking action, I know that. It got better with time, but often times I'm still the type to cram before a deadline rather than start early. I looked up a couple psychiatrists and will make an appointment tomorrow or the day after. I'm actively looking for a sponsor now and will reach out today or tomorrow. And I'm going to look up more information and really think about how I can stop seeing people as objects.

Your relationship with reality seems pretty compromised.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's something I wonder myself sometimes. But could you elaborate on that?

This is what addicts do, agree that they need to do something and do nothing. It is ADDICT BULLSHIT. Start taking suggestions and putting them into ACTION.

That is something I do/did a lot. I'm using the "ending fantasies badly" method now.

And in a way, isn't that something she has to decide?

I thought about it. I don't want to give up the relationship, but it can't continue as it is now. I thought a lot about a therapeutic separation. I know it's kind of off topic, but does anyone have any tips for that, things to consider, resources, etc.?

Do you work with a CSAT? You need someone with experience in the area of SA.

I'm not american, so there aren't any CSATs where I live. My therapist works with addicts in general, but he doesn't really believe in sex addiction. I thought about it a lot since I started, but your post made me realize that he really isn't the right one for me. I have three names who might be suited better, they at least have sexuality in general as something they have experience working with. One has SA as one of his topics (but I'll have to ask why exactly and what experience he has) and one other one could too, I haven't looked at his website yet but my current therapist recommended him as someone with experience in this field. Again, I realized I'd just written something off without even trying to do something about it. That's obviously a huge problem.

Thank you for the tips on OCD. I looked into it and though I'm not sure, I think it's worth it to discuss with a professional, whether I have OCD and/or other mental problems.

You will not get better until you begin to really do the work. This means getting a sponsor and working the steps. This means multiple meetings per week where you share your struggles. It is suggested that you attend 90 meetings in 90 days.

I'm working on getting a sponsor now, I've got two numbers and I'm going to reach out today or tomorrow and I'm going to a meeting today and will ask there as well. I'm doing a 90 in 90 now. I have thought about it before, but I brushed it off as not possible (because of spending time with my partner). Through your post I realized that I'd never talked to her about it. I talked to her about it now and I'm going to do it.

The idea is that you need to sit through the fantasies/obesssions and not act on them through porn, etc. You need support to learn how to do this.

That for me isn't the problem. I haven't used porn in months and I haven't acted on them (or had the urge to act on them, really) in real life either. But the fantasies themselves are a problem.

The fantasies will not just disappear without work on your part. In your post, I hear a lot of talk (i.e., agreeing that you need to take certain steps), but not a lot of action.

I hear that. I can be slow with taking action, I know that. It got better with time, but often times I'm still the type to cram before a deadline rather than start early. I looked up a couple psychiatrists and will make an appointment tomorrow or the day after. I'm actively looking for a sponsor now and will reach out today or tomorrow. And I'm going to look up more information and really think about how I can stop seeing people as objects.

Your relationship with reality seems pretty compromised.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's something I wonder myself sometimes. But could you elaborate on that?

This is what addicts do, agree that they need to do something and do nothing. It is ADDICT BULLSHIT. Start taking suggestions and putting them into ACTION.

That is something I do/did a lot. I'm using the "ending fantasies badly" method now.

And in a way, isn't that something she has to decide?

I thought about it. I don't want to give up the relationship, but it can't continue as it is now. I thought a lot about a therapeutic separation. I know it's kind of off topic, but does anyone have any tips for that, things to consider, resources, etc.?

Do you work with a CSAT? You need someone with experience in the area of SA.

I'm not american, so there aren't any CSATs where I live. My therapist works with addicts in general, but he doesn't really believe in sex addiction. I thought about it a lot since I started, but your post made me realize that he really isn't the right one for me. I have three names who might be suited better, they at least have sexuality in general as something they have experience working with. One has SA as one of his topics (but I'll have to ask why exactly and what experience he has) and one other one could too, I haven't looked at his website yet but my current therapist recommended him as someone with experience in this field. Again, I realized I'd just written something off without even trying to do something about it. That's obviously a huge problem.

Thank you for the tips on OCD. I looked into it and though I'm not sure, I think it's worth it to discuss with a professional, whether I have OCD and/or other mental problems.

You will not get better until you begin to really do the work. This means getting a sponsor and working the steps. This means multiple meetings per week where you share your struggles. It is suggested that you attend 90 meetings in 90 days.

I'm working on getting a sponsor now, I've got two numbers and I'm going to reach out today or tomorrow and I'm going to a meeting today and will ask there as well. I'm doing a 90 in 90 now. I have thought about it before, but I brushed it off as not possible (because of spending time with my partner). Through your post I realized that I'd never talked to her about it. I talked to her about it now and I'm going to do it.

The idea is that you need to sit through the fantasies/obesssions and not act on them through porn, etc. You need support to learn how to do this.

That for me isn't the problem. I haven't used porn in months and I haven't acted on them (or had the urge to act on them, really) in real life either. But the fantasies themselves are a problem.

The fantasies will not just disappear without work on your part. In your post, I hear a lot of talk (i.e., agreeing that you need to take certain steps), but not a lot of action.

I hear that. I can be slow with taking action, I know that. It got better with time, but often times I'm still the type to cram before a deadline rather than start early. I looked up a couple psychiatrists and will make an appointment tomorrow or the day after. I'm actively looking for a sponsor now and will reach out today or tomorrow. And I'm going to look up more information and really think about how I can stop seeing people as objects.

Your relationship with reality seems pretty compromised.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's something I wonder myself sometimes. But could you elaborate on that?

This is what addicts do, agree that they need to do something and do nothing. It is ADDICT BULLSHIT. Start taking suggestions and putting them into ACTION.

That is something I do/did a lot. I'm using the "ending fantasies badly" method now.

And in a way, isn't that something she has to decide?

I thought about it. I don't want to give up the relationship, but it can't continue as it is now. I thought a lot about a therapeutic separation. I know it's kind of off topic, but does anyone have any tips for that, things to consider, resources, etc.?

Do you work with a CSAT? You need someone with experience in the area of SA.

I'm not american, so there aren't any CSATs where I live. My therapist works with addicts in general, but he doesn't really believe in sex addiction. I thought about it a lot since I started, but your post made me realize that he really isn't the right one for me. I have three names who might be suited better, they at least have sexuality in general as something they have experience working with. One has SA as one of his topics (but I'll have to ask why exactly and what experience he has) and one other one could too, I haven't looked at his website yet but my current therapist recommended him as someone with experience in this field. Again, I realized I'd just written something off without even trying to do something about it. That's obviously a huge problem.

I think you have been given very good advice . Look into pure OCD ; interestingly enough there is a British netflix show called “ pure “on this very subject

I didn't read all the responses fully here but I think Siracha is on to something. I will share my experience with you and what I learned.

So, after the affair so many of the compulsive thoughts were involuntary, and really it was painful and torturous. My mind was a run away train.

I don't have sex addiction, but I definitely had limerance. People think that is just infatuation like what normal people experience when they meet someone and fall in love. It's not that at all, it's an addiction/compulsion. While you have the choice not to take drugs and therefore not become addicted, same thing here. The affair was a choice, the addiction of it followed.

Through therapy I found that I was creating my own chaos. That normal every day living wasn't enough stimulation for me. Now, everyone needs things to look forward to I think, but I was excessive in so many ways.

When I was treated, nothing was working to stop my thought train. I was having a hard time fighting the depression of not having all those happy chemicals filling up my brain. OCD is related to a lot of other mental issues but if you can identify that part of it and learn to manage it, then it goes a long way to being able to work a program for sex addiction or doing further work on yourself. The OCD/compulsion aspect of it can be treated like any other OCD situation.

Mind you, I don't have other classic OCD tendencies. But your thoughts are about compulsion and that will be a good part to pin point as once we turned our attention to that in my treatment it helped me dramatically get to the higher branches of what I needed to work on.

Other things that helped me with the thought patterns:

-You describe distracting yourself. I don't think that's a bad thing exactly, you do have to train your mind to stop going back to the same things like rubbing a worry stone constantly in your pocket.

-But, even better - learn to be mindful. Joy exists in the moment we are in and the more in that moment you can make yourself the more joy you will feel. This will help you with needing to tap into unhelpful places to get your fix. I tend to do mundane chores but tune into them and tune everything else out. Try and do the best job I can on what I am doing. Breathing exercises are helpful here. Meditation felt useless to me at first and now I use it fairly generously. The book the power of now helped me a lot with being able to manage and not believe all my thoughts.

-Exercise helps me a lot. Natural source of endorphins because I believe some of what I experienced was just brain chemical issues. Exercise and even vitamins can help with that. It improves your self esteem/self love as well.

-Finding passions that light you up. Your go to is sex/love - it's your crutch that is lighting you up all the time. Find healthy replacements, things you find accomplishment in, things you love to do. This was difficult for me because I had really gotten in a rut for years of over working both for employment and even for my family. I had to experiment with a lot of hobbies to try and find things I did finally connect with.

-Therapy. This is not something you can muddle through on your own.

-Journaling/writing here helped me. The more I wrote helped me understand myself and also there is a sense that I sometimes help others. Giving back is a very good step. If you don't want to give back here maybe think about doing some volunteering and maybe do it with your wife or your family.

Anyway, the OCD was a big piece of the puzzle for me. I was doing everything I could to change my thought patterns but without addressing that piece of it I was grasping for straws.

I like the honesty. Keep it up.

I am impressed with your willingness to look at yourself. That is the foundation of the kind of honest self-reflection you will need to be able to sustain sobriety. It is a very positive sign that you are doing a 90 and 90 and that you are taking suggestions.

I haven't used porn in months and I haven't acted on them (or had the urge to act on them, really) in real life either. But the fantasies themselves are a problem.

The de-escalation of the fantasies will take time. The more work you do, the more they will decrease. Sounds like they are a coping mechanism, but that is an area to work on in therapy or with a sponsor since I don't know you.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's something I wonder myself sometimes. But could you elaborate on that?

Fantasias are not reality. They are compromising some part of your relationship with reality and causing dysfunction in your ability to live life on life's terms, make objective decisions, etc.

Did you get a sponsor and follow up with the doctor? Step work with a sponsor will help with the fantasies.

Hey, you didn't put a stop sign, so let me just add something....

You were wondering if it was OK for you to take this job, right? What is it that makes this job different from any other?

From what I read, you have a similar reaction to almost all women, am I correct? And unless you join a monastary, there will be women pretty much anywhere you go. And you have not said that your fantasy issue keep you from behaving acceptably in public, as far as I know. It seems you keep your fantasies to yourself and they don't hinder you in actually performing you job or other life skills.

If I am correct about all that, I don't see a reason that you couldn't take the job. You have to work somewhere, and it sounds like this job is a good one.

Also, kudos for being willing to face your demons and take suggestions. I know what you are dealing with is excruciating. I wish you the best of everything.

Thank you hikingout for the detailed reply. I took a lot out of it.

Through therapy I found that I was creating my own chaos. That normal every day living wasn't enough stimulation for me. Now, everyone needs things to look forward to I think, but I was excessive in so many ways.

I think that's a very good description of me as well. I do believe a lot of my work is around gratitude for what I have and finding joy in my life without being excessive. Thank you for your list of activities. I do meditation almost daily but I think trying to be mindful in day to day activities is something good to try. I exercise and I think that's great too, it really brings you into your body and makes you feel good about yourself. I'm looking for a therapist right now, I had some appointments and have some ahead of me and I hope that will help, then. I already have an appointment with a psychiatrist to see if I have OCD or other psychological problems. I do journal a lot, but pen to paper rather than on the internet. However, I see that it could be helpful to be on here more and maybe help some other people, if I can.

Fantasias are not reality. They are compromising some part of your relationship with reality and causing dysfunction in your ability to live life on life's terms, make objective decisions, etc.

Did you get a sponsor and follow up with the doctor? Step work with a sponsor will help with the fantasies.

Thank you for your answer as well, Notmine. I made a doctor's appointment, yes and I started working the steps with a sponsor today. I see that the fantasies could be a coping mechanism and they aren't reality. Yet, often times I kind of believe them, not even knowing how unrealistic they are. I'm trying to question them more now, are they realistic, are they a normal reaction to something, etc. That seems to help, too.

If I am correct about all that, I don't see a reason that you couldn't take the job. You have to work somewhere, and it sounds like this job is a good one.

Thank you for your answer. You are correct in all of that. Howeber, in the end I decided not to take the job because I would have to travel a few times a year, alone with another woman in different cities, in her car, I would generally work with her alone in the office. All of that just didn't feel safe to my BS and since I had the luxury not to take the job I declined in the end and am lookong for a new, less problematic one.

Best,

When I was age 15 to 19 a number of married women offered sex to me, but what made me stop was when I thought about their children, I wouldn't be getting and easy lay I would be screwing a 5 year olds Mother.

Perhaps you can do something similar imagine the lives these women lead and the people who rely on them and love them.

Yes you can likely seduce them and exploit their vulnerabilities. Perhaps they will try to get with you. Stop yourself and tell them to seek marriage counseling or to try and work on their relationship. I've done this with a number of female coworkers and they've thanked me later.

You have the power to do good for others if you decide to do so.