SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Can we just talk about Blake Shelton and Gwen Stefani for a moment?

Blake and his new wife Gwen have been all over the news as of late. Everyone is excited to hear about their "super secret" wedding, how many dresses Gwen had, how Blake built a tiny chapel just so he could marry her there, the ring, the guests, the ranch...

But what people don't seem to be discussing is that Gwen probably has only a few years (if history is to be our guide) before Blake meets yet another platinum blonde and cheats on her as well. Most people seem to know how the couple met, but it seems like very few people care one way or the other, and their opinions of Blake and how often he cheats, seem untarnished despite his actions. Blake's track record goes like this:

* Married Kaynette Williams 2003

* Cheated on Kaynette with Miranda while working with Miranda

* Divorced Kaynette 2006

* Married Miranda Lambert 2011

* Cheated on Miranda with Gwen while working with Gwen

* Divorced Miranda 2015

* Married Gwen Stefani 2021

Look, I honestly don't give a darn about Blake Shelton one way or the other, I'm not a fan of his, and I'm not the type to follow Hollywood relationships and gossip, however since this has been in the news lately, I thought it might be a good topic to bring up for general discussion.

All of us know the media is obsessed with infidelity. You can't watch a drama, a soap or even a comedy without the storyline heading in that direction at some point. In fact, shortly after D-day, my wife and I were watching Chopped on the Food Network and one of the chefs started talking about how they just cheated on their spouse... it's a cooking show for goodness sake!

I'm not about to suggest that social media "caused" anyone to cheat, but I do think it has an influence on how we (as a society) view infidelity as a whole, how we respond to it, and what our expectations are. I believe that many active WS's subconsciously feel that what they are doing just "isn't that big of a deal", and one of the reasons they often feel that way, is because that seems to be society's view of cheating. No one blinks an eye when people get divorced anymore, now we don't blink for infidelity either.

What is frustrating is that most of this media exposure paints infidelity in a very, very, trivial manner. Often the issue is merely glossed over and forgotten within moments. In almost all cases, the amount of damage done seems minimized and trivialized, and then fixed with a simple "I'm sorry, I fucked up, forgive me?" at which point the entire incident is forgotten and never mentioned again. Or people simply divorce and move on, as seemingly easily as changing an outfit.

I realize that we probably can't change the media. Sure, we can choose to not watch those shows, but let's face it, the reason it is one of the most common scenarios on TV is that it sells, and as long as it sells, they will keep portraying it at every chance they get.

So what does that leave us with?

Well, we can be influencers too.

When the topic comes up and others are around, we can add a point of view to the conversation. We can point out how devastating this is in real life. We can talk about how it affects the kids long term, and can damage their ability to have a healthy relationship themselves. We can share how unrealistic it is to think that this is something minor, or something that "a good cry, followed by dinner and flowers then make-up sex" is going to fix. We can point out how it robs the other spouse of their choice, and how it destroys our own dignity. We can be anything other than silent.

I'm just curious how others feel about this? Have you ever had a chance to say something to another person before they did something they will regret? Do you think there is more we can do together to get the message out to others before they go down the road we did? Can we paint infidelity with a brush that exposes what it really is? Not a TV plotline, but more like an emotional bomb going off?

How can we be part of a greater solution?

I'm not about to suggest that social media "caused" anyone to cheat...

In a way they do. It's so glorified. Or sensationalized. It's one of the reasons I no longer watch TV or pay attention to that side of media and social media.

The bottom line is that no one gets it until it bites them. You get betrayed, or you betray and end up losing your spouse... Everyone else sits on the sideline and eats popcorn. To then it's a form of cheap entertainment.

There is no greater good or bigger solution. People are selfish and do selfish things. Selfish people don’t care what others think, so you can’t really influence them.

I do think the media/Hollywood play a big part in the normalization of infidelity. My wife and I were binge watching a popular show/series on Netflix that was rife with cheating. When the couples made up, it was a simple I’m sorry followed by and hug and all was better.

But we have also become such a voyeristic society. We are so fascinated in other peoples lives that we stop “tending our own gardens”. Garbage like the Kardashians, The Bachelor/Batchelorette are the hot shows to watch. Monogamy is more of a novelty these days. Unfortunately many people mimic the behavior they see on TV or on social media. I also feel that we have become more selfish as individuals, give me mine and fuck the other guy.

I don’t think there is an easy answer. We need to become teachers of sorts and speak up when we see an injustice like this. I recall doing so at work; there was a popular manager who cheated on his wife and left her for another coworker. There were a group of guys in the break room yucking it up making him out to be somehow justified in doing so. I spoke up and of course I was the asshole.

Unfortunately most people won’t speak up Its easier to say nothing than to go against the crowd.

There's also the toxic trend of portraying female infidelity as an empowering adventure and a social good. Evidenced by dozens of bestselling books, TV talk shows, movies etc pushing this narrative. Women are meant to be polyamorous, marriage is a restrictive misogynistic invention, women deserve a “Bridges of Madison County” diversion, they aren’t “seen as a woman” in their marriage etc.

Far too many women appear to believe this, only to realize later with dawning horror that what they've done is actually one of the most greivous and frankly evil things one human can do to another. We read time after time betrayed husbands relating to us here on SI their WW’s warped views on feminism and female empowerment in service of extra marital orgasms and fawning kiss-assery from an AP. We've even had former WW’s confirm for us here how “empowering” and wonderful their affairs felt.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:25 AM, July 10th (Saturday)]

Thumos,

Do you feel as if somehow feminism endorses infidelity?

I feel like women spend a lot of time being treated as less than equal, and in some way they use that as a justification or rationalization for their affair because it is currently "in vogue" for women to lift each other up, and point out all the positive aspects of one another in a society that spends a not insignificant amount of time treating them like second class citizens.

I am not justifying anyone's affair here - this is more of an exercise of empathy for me than anything because as a WS I know the patterns of thinking we tend to fall into and how easy it is to rationalize away out behavior.

The bottom line is that no one gets it until it bites them

This is true, you can't begin to fathom it, from either side of the equation, until it happens to you.

The thing is, the more you read SI and other resources, the more you'll begin to notice a "pattern" to things. We all have different stories, but at the same time, they are all so very much the same. Just the names/faces/places vary for the most part.

What *I* am seeing are people (WS's) with some serious self-value issues. A lot of those issues have to do with our life stories, however I think TV and movies and so on really do contribute as well. I've heard many women say that (for example) looking at the models in women's magazine and everywhere in the media, they feel as if there is an unrealistic level of perfection and beauty that is impossible to meet, and yet, they feel their own self confidence and value diminish when they don't meet up to those standards.

In a similar way, I feel as though cheating has become... maybe not quite an expectation, but almost. More like a "new normal". As in, "you don't have to cheat, but if you do, then it's okay, because everyone does it anyway."

I guess I just wish there was a way to catch people before they commit infidelity, and it seems like there should be a way, I just can't seem to put my finger on it.

Selfish people don’t care what others think, so you can’t really influence them.

I hear you, but perhaps we're going about it wrong? If they can only think of themselves, then maybe there is way to intercept them on that level? You nailed the problem on the head... how do you get someone who can't see anyone but themselves to care about others? The answer is, you make it affect them. We see it happen all the time AFTER an affair... suddenly, reality kinda snaps back, and we start to wonder what the hell we just did? If so, I'm just trying to think of ways to make that happen BEFORE they cheat. (I realize that's a little ambitious but quite frankly, rebuilding my relationship after infidelity seemed impossible too, however, I'm still here and still trying my best... sometimes it's a matter of not giving up until you accomplish your goals.

There were a group of guys in the break room yucking it up making him out to be somehow justified in doing so. I spoke up and of course I was the asshole.

Yup, and that's the part that really sucks. The thing is, even if they made you feel like a asshole for speaking up, at least YOU know you did the right thing, and can sleep at night knowing that you stood up not only for the right thing, but for the right reason(s) too.

I see all this social/political change going on in the US and the world. When you think about it, there was a time when black people fought for their rights, and often ended up dead or hurt from it. Women asked for equal rights, and were demeaned and belittled for it. All social change starts with shame and pain, that's just how it works. But if we keep it up, one day, the tables can turn, and instead of one guy saying, "Hey, that's not cool", it will a lot of people saying it.

That's the idea anyway.

Do you feel as if somehow feminism endorses infidelity

No I was careful not to say that. I think there's a lot of pseudo feminism (posing as feminism) going around in bestselling books and TED talks and the like that does endorse female infidelity.

But all that real feminism itself posits is that women be treated as equals and fellow human beings.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:35 AM, July 12th (Monday)]

(I hope it's ok a BS posts?)

While Blake and Gwen have been in the news for you over in my country our top war hero (most decorated) has been in the news. It's alleged he has committed war crimes and the media is a bit muddy about who the whistleblower is but it appears the proof came from his STBXW. Via a bit of media investigation it is revealed this war hero is getting a divorce because he was having a long term affair which was discovered moments before the wife gave birth to his twins.

For a brief moment there, less than a week, it seemed like proper talk about infidelity and infidelity trauma was making mainstream media, especially when the court released a copy of letter written by an anonymous friend to this "hero" about them knowing he is cheating on his wife (they detail how they know it wasn't the wife he was with in the hotel for a few nights) and he should pull his finger out and work on his marriage because he is making a family. So finally there was an opening for honest communication and debate about infidelity, from both sides, waywards and betrayed, which is needed because in my country it has a bit of a culture of "oh well, boys will be boys" when it comes to infidelity (we are a no fault divorce country.) This "hero's" STBXW looked like she might have gotten her moment to talk about it too.

However, by intention or just poor fricking timing, on the back of that letter the court then released a series of text messages copies from this "hero" to his AP, texting about the hero punching his AP and giving her a black eye and what she needs to say to anyone who is suspicious (doctors asking questions, police etc), so now the infidelity is forgotten, 100% not mentioned, STBXW forgotten, the war crimes are not talked about and it's all about the AP getting the black eye and "why do women stay in abusive relationships?" questions, lots of feminist debates about how women need to stand up for themselves against abusive partners, all this time completely glossing over that this relationship they're using as an example is an affair, not a boyfriend girlfriend a relationship between a married man and his other woman (they were still together while and after the black eye incident.) AP did eventually break the relationship up, the story goes hero and AP planed a holiday but on separate flights so not to draw suspicion, he took off first, she left the airport and drove to the pregnant wife's house to tell her about the affair. But that isn't talked about, the way she ended the affair, no, the AP is publicly praised for being a strong woman and for leaving the abusive partner.

The rug sweeping is outstanding.

All of this had me thinking about us, the ones who have lived through infidelity and to get the word out to the masses just doesn't seem possible, how can it when there is something 'better' for click baits. It's sad and frustrating because even though this guy is our top hero, it will be the war crimes (if true) that will strip him of the medals, the abusive relationship with his AP that will mark him as the 'bad partner' but his infidelity??? nothing, no punishments, no consequences to face. And that's on society, not the media.

How can we be part of a greater solution?

Educate via example is the only way I can see this happening. Protect your M, do the work. If the opportunity to honestly and openly talk about infidelity ever comes up talk honestly and openly about it. Lead by example for those who don't know how to do it. Be the shoulder and ear of support for other waywards who want to improve and keep their M. If you're a wayward who gets such support from another wayward then pay it forward.

I can't think of an event that will ever shake society up about this, so guerrilla warfare tactics, small groups educating to small groups, support each other, educate those who are being ignorant in your immediate circles, pay it forward if you get help. Rinse repeat.

Do you think if you could time travel and go back to yourself before you cheated and tell yourself what happened, that you would have prevented this?

Doubtful. I know my WS would not have believed the fallout and was in expert level denial/repression/compartmentalization in the middle of his affairs. Even if he himself intervened, he would have thought he could control the outcome. Which is why we ended up here in the first place.

Perhaps a more interesting and productive application would be helping the BS here discern which WS are hopeless and when they should jump ship. I suspect they would be a more willing audience.

You can’t save them their pain. Even if you could keep the WS from cheating, they would still not REALLY realize their selfishness and entitlement. And the BS would inevitably be hurt regardless, just in a different way. Maybe postpone the inevitable for a few years, maybe not.

Blake Shelton's history and my dad's almost mimic each other only my dad didn't marry all of the women he was in a relationship with.

For months now I've been struggling to know how to keep a relationship with my father, and it's only getting harder the more I examine myself. And his current situation is almost to much for me to handle... Borderline Jerry Springer storyline.

And with my personal history of lies and infidelity I don't want to accociate with people who not only possess but actively use these terrible elements they hold in themselves.

Do you think if you could time travel and go back to yourself before you cheated and tell yourself what happened, that you would have prevented this?

I have thought about this question many times and I always have the same conclusion.... Yes, I would have been able to prevent the current situation I'm in. I have to stop myself from waisting valuable time and energy on wishing I could go back and do this very thing.

I'm just curious how others feel about this? Have you ever had a chance to say something to another person before they did something they will regret?

I currently have information about a coworker that I'm not supposed to have and I stuggle with the information. But because I'm not supposed to have it I'm keeping my mouth shut and I've naturally created a distance from her because I don't want to be awkward around her.

I guess the same action I'm taking with my dad as well.

[This message edited by 15yrsinthemaking at 1:02 AM, July 12th (Monday)]

My STBXFWW (yep) once told me that she'd pictured herself as the woman in "The Bridges of Madison County."

How can we be part of a greater solution? By speaking our truth and daring greatly (as my new favorite author writes).

Infidelity is rarely the main plot of any movie or TV show. In general, it's rarely treated with honesty, truthfulness and respect that it deserves. And I suppose there's good reason for that. I'm not so sure I'd ever want to watch a movie that treats infidelity, and all that goes with it, honestly, truthfully, and respectfully.

It's the same reason why so many war veterans didn't go see "Saving Private Ryan." They've been there and done that and don't want to go there or do that ever again.

But, of course, it's also quite prevalent, so there's no reason to avoid it, right?

Where does that leave the writers?

Punch lines?

Subtext?

Sub plots?

A lot of episode of "Snapped" begin with infidelity and oh... I understand.

Last summer I told a friend. He's the husband of our family friends. I told him how devastating it was, that it took me months to recover and years to heal. I told him about reading posts from SI members who have suffered all sorts of abuse and traumas and many (a good many) write that infidelity is worse than anything they've ever experienced in their lives. It seems to me that the singular exception is the the death of a child (and I'm sorry if I triggered anyone here).

Unless people are willing to listen they won't listen. Given the past 18 months or so, I have my doubts.

DaddyDom,

I don't write as eloquently (oh crap, is a word?) as you do. Still, I have some first hand experience at this as a BS.

First, as a BS I can't talk to anyone about infidelity. I get "hooked" as Pema Chodron would say, and mentally taken to another place where I am simple not emotionally present or rational on some level.

My WS did talk to a friend in the middle of his affair. WS and AP were together and almost at the point of consummating per his description and confirmed by polygraph. The next day he called a friend. Not a close friend who's advice he would follow anywhere else in life with family or career or elsewhere. He chose a friend who was that guy in college who chased tail and partied or whatever you want to call it. I knew the guy and knew his personality. I asked "Why him?" and my WH said, "I thought he was most likely to have experienced something similar."

People in an affair seek confirmation bias. My WH wouldn't have dared to call our true friends who would have called him out on his abhorrent behavior.

My WH's "friend" (I don't think he's much of a friend) pointed out everything that could possibly go wrong for my WH. For example, her husband could go after you. What does he do? Oh, an attorney? No! His friend also mentioned other friends who had affairs and divorces and how it didn't work out so well for most of them. He mentioned losing your best friend of many years in a divorce.

What didn't his friend ever mention? Me or our children. Yes, we have met this person. Yes, we have spent time at his house with his family. I think my WH purposely chose a selfish person to confirm his selfish, crappy life perspective.

So, how did it affect my WH? Well, he says it made him distance himself from his AP. He also says if he had been told an affair would hurt me, he probably wouldn't have cared. He says he likes to think he would have thought of our children if his friend brought that up. As far as distancing himself from his AP, I guess he didn't see her in person after that, but he sure did keep up all the texting.

Personally, I think it's a bit like drugs or alcohol. You are on a path. You justify it. With an affair, you get more resentful and more entitled as you go. Can anything stop you? I honestly think my husband hit a pause, but it would have continued just because of his attitude. He would have justified it eventually. It would have been something I said or did.

Also, this is an affair. What do I really know about what happened and what he thought? He told me these conversations and thoughts that I would have no way of knowing otherwise. What a mindf#@$k. Clever. Maybe? I don't know.

duplicate

[This message edited by humantrampoline at 4:08 AM, July 13th (Tuesday)]

There's also the toxic trend of portraying female infidelity as an empowering adventure and a social good. Evidenced by dozens of bestselling books, TV talk shows, movies etc pushing this narrative. Women are meant to be polyamorous, marriage is a restrictive misogynistic invention, women deserve a “Bridges of Madison County” diversion, they aren’t “seen as a woman” in their marriage etc.

While I have seen this trend, there has also been a social acceptance of men having affairs for decades. It's almost expected for a man to cheat on his wife or be the AP and that has been going back since movies began. People rooted for Cary Grant to break up Katherine Hepburn's upcoming marriage in the Philadelphia Story or Rosalind Russel's upcoming marriage in His Girl Friday. Why is Tom Hanks the good guy in Sleepless in Seattle? He's the AP. There are hundreds of examples.

So no, I don't think it's feminism or anything of the sort. I think it's simply people putting themselves over others. It's people basically saying that my need for sex, ego kibbles, romance, self-validation, etc. is more important than any commitment I made or responsibility I have toward someone else. It's all rooted in me above everyone else - the epitome of selfishness. I don't think it's more complicated than that. Everyone may have different factors that influenced their selfishness, but in the end, that's what it boils down to. Self above everything else. I had many things I learned about myself and circumstances in my life that "contributed" to my affair. Other people had the same or worse and didn't cheat. I did. Why? Because I put my perceived needs and wants above everything else. I was selfish. That's it. No need to drag feminism into it.

To DaddyDom's point, I think we can be influencers by sharing our stories and our experiences with the aftermath of infidelity when the topic comes up and people or the media glorifies or glosses over it. You mentioned Blake Shelton, but Gwen Stefani and Miranda Lambert for that matter, were the AP's. They all contributed to the infidelity that went around. I'm not suggesting people shout it from the rooftops, but don't gloss over it yourself or add to the "no big deal" attitude. And where appropriate, share the impact it had on your life and those you love with someone else. Maybe it'll make them think twice the next time they see or read about it.

My neighbor died suddenly last week. He was mid 50s. The ambulance picked him up in the evening, and he died hours later.

I went to wish his wife condolences the next morning. I don't know them all that well. We chat when walking the dogs. I knew that they had only been married a short time. She started telling me their story. She had an affair with him when she was 17 a few months before he got married. Then she went away to college and met someone else and got married. A few years later she and this guy starting seeing each other once a year - for his entire marriage and hers. They eventually both got divorced and got together. His young adult children were estranged from him - you know, because the ex-wife poisoned them against him.

She told me all this like it was a fairy tale romance. They had a special lifetime bond and friendship. I could barely speak or think. I just wanted to get far, far away from her. I don't think there is anything I could have said to her that would make any difference.

Thankfully she moved out a few days later. They had been planning to move.

There are so many fantastic replies here, thank you all for adding your experience and reasoning.

I do remember, before the affair, that "Bridges" was one of my favorite movies, one of the few that could make me weep every single time. It is crazy to me now to think that I once rooted for that woman to connect with her affair partner. I certainly wasn't alone in that however, it seems most people who saw that movie felt the same. However, to be fair, we (people) romanticize a lot of things that in reality, are as ugly as ugly gets. War. Boxing. Martyrdom. The mafia. Death.

I agree that, on a case by case basis, I doubt anyone is going to listen to what we have to say. However I also don't think it is the kind of thing that changes on a case by case basis. For example, if one fashion magazine stops using rail thin models in their publications, then not much changes. But if several do... well, then a new message begins to be spread.

To me, SI itself is a whole new paradigm. This is my support group, and has been for 5+ years now. And I honestly believe that I would not have been able to understand the things I needed to understand, or have been able to find resources and the inner strength I needed, without the advice and support of the people here. So in that regard, a difference has already been made. Not everyone will listen, we know that. Even those that do might fail to change. But sometimes we get to help a couple, sometimes just one person. It feels good to be helped, and even better to give back.

My last reply wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be.

That morning, my neighbor told me that after she met her now-deceased husband again, 5 yrs after the first affair; "Well... we basically had an affair for the next 30 years".

That had such an effect on me. She was married. He was married. She was always in his marriage. He was always in hers. I can't express my feelings well for his wife and children and her husband. I feel they all were wronged so greatly.

As I've already said, I don't think I could have said anything to her that would have any impact or understanding on the pain she and her departed spouse put upon their families. She seemed oblivious.

Daddy Dom and other WS, I hope you can have an impact. My WH is that person that everyone wants to talk to about personal things. He knows my boundaries about that. DaddyDom, I wonder if you are the same. My WH has talked to both his business banker and his family physician at times about their marital situation. These aren't people he knows well or long-term friends. They complained about family life and their wives and he replied. My WH has said he talked about marriage, building resentment, self-victimization, and other parts of his experience. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with this. Who is he to be a leader? At the same time, why shouldn't he speak up to his experience?

I just don't know how to feel about this. I'm sorry to say I don't know if I feel comfortable with some of you giving advice.

Sorry for that.