SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First time posting here. I am a WS and betrayed my beautiful loving husband for seemingly no reason (other than 1,000 of my OWN reasons). I am doing it ALL and we are working hard. It was an 8 week affair, and DD was on July 1st. It's been rocky for sure, but we are still here....working hard! And I am so grateful for that.

My question is this: How do I get back to physical affection (NOT SEX) I'm talking hand holding, hugs (man I REALLY miss just being held by him!) Our sex life has increased and is AMAZING, so yes there is affection in that area...but I'm just talking normal daily affection. He does kiss me (lightly) before he leaves for work, but that's about the extent of it.

I don't want to ask for it or press him to do any of it, but I feel like if I let it go for too long he just won't want to do that at all eventually. And we were a VERY affectionate couple prior to this terrible betrayal!!

Any advice on what I can do would be greatly appreciated.

To me it sounds like he may be hysterically bonding and that is why the sex is so great, he may be reclaiming. That may not last forever so just be aware if that is what is happening it could stop. Unfortunately you just have to let him take the pace on the other things but I think an open honest conversation about it would be great. Asking him how he is feeling about those things.

I considered that in the beginning, then we did go through a lull and it was concerning, but then something shifted and sex did start to feel like more than just the act. That is where we are now. So that gives me hope in that regard.

But I am trying to figure out how to hold his hand, have him just genuinely hug me - WANT to hug me. I imagine that that just comes with time, I just want to know things I could do in the meantime to help foster that - obviously without pushing him.

Your marriage will never get back to where it used to be. You need to know that.

If he wants to hold your hand,he will. If he wants to hold you, he will. Don't push.

What can you do to get him to that point? Work on yourself. Work on becoming a safe partner.

You say you're doing it all. What does that mean? Are you fully transparent? Does he have full access to everything? All accounts? Your phone? Passwords? We're you tested for stds? Has he been able to read your texts with OM? Are you completely honest about everything? Did you dump all of your friends who knew about the affair? Are you NC with OM? Has your husband told the BW? Are you accountable for time spent away from your BH? Are you in IC? Have you offered a polygraph? Exactly what work are you doing on yourself?

Your husband won't feel safe, until you are safe for him.

Reconciliation takes years. It won't always be great sex and smooth sailing. He is most likely still in shock. He will feel rage. Deep sadness. And, this early out, neither of you have any idea just how deeply this will affect EVERYTHING in your lives.

Be patient. And work on you.

Hmm, your question about things going back to the way they used to be roughly 12 weeks after D-day suggests you really don’t understand the impact of your betrayal. The "breezy" tone of your post furthers that impression.

You should know that your BH is probably still trying to make sense of the new situation and is unlikely to have arrived at how he really feels about it. Sometimes it takes a BS awhile to find their anger (6 months post D-day is a frequently cited timeframe).

Your A killed the M that existed prior to it, and the sooner the two of you accept that the more likely you are to make progress (whether it is R or D). Good luck.

Welcome to this forum. No stop sign here. You need to back up and put first things first.

On one side, right now your H is traumatized--by your actions, and he is not even fully aware of the extent of the pain you caused. On the other side, you are an unsafe person and partner. You betrayed your H for another man, breaking your vows to love and protect your H and only him. Your issues allowed you to DECIDE TO betray the one man you should have been protecting. With this in mind, your H did not magically heal and you did not magically fix your issues in only 12 weeks. So helping your H heal from your actions, and you getting to the bottom of your issues and getting those fixed, those are Job 1 here.

Meanwhile, your ask for 'the marriage you had' back, comes across of extremely myopic and/or selfish of you. It's as if either you aren't aware of his pain you caused, and/or you just expect him to stuff it down. It's why you are getting a lot of heat on here so far.

What you do need to be focused on now:

1. First of all, you need to understand the damage you caused your H and marriage. Do you have any idea how emasculated your H is feeling right now due to your actions? Thanks to your decisions and your actions, the trust in your marriage is gone too. Why should he believe anything you say. You already gave your vows to love and protect him, and yet you broke those vows. What makes it that much worse is the likely lying and gaslighting on your part in the meanwhile.

2. The second thing is that you need to affair that you decided to have is totally on you. Not on your H, not on your M, but all on you. You need to own up, completely, 100%, to your behavior. And this includes guarding against seemingly innocent slip-of-the-tongues on your part. It was not "this terrible betrayal" as you wrote (next to last paragraph in your post at the top), it was YOUR terrible betrayal!

3. The third is you need to get to the bottom of your WHYs. Why did you DECIDE to betray your husband for another man, causing your H so much pain and the deep feelings of emasculation. What inside you allowed you to do this.

I'm not trying to pelt you with rocks RepentantWife, I AM trying to let you know that you have A LOT of work to do, there is A LOT of anger coming your way, and I don't think you understand how much damage your actions caused in the meanwhile.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:29 AM, Friday, October 1st]

Hi and welcome to SI

As others have pointed out 12 weeks post dday is a little too early to concern yourself with getting back to the way things used to be. I think standing in our shoes it can be difficult to understand the impact of our cheating and the extent of the situation.

Its very important to think of his pain as trauma, because it is very much so. Not only that but to also look at your cheating as abusive.

Consider this..If your friend experience domestic abuse, would you encourage that friend to return their affection so soon? The fact of the matter is that you would in all actuality encourage your friend to leave.

This is what we are up against and how we should tread moving forward. And with trauma comes grief, it flows in stages, often on repeat,for years. Not always as intense as in the beginning, but with that said the beginning is always hard. Denial and anger (rage even) is a monster of a roller-coaster, look up the Kubler-Ross model of the 5 stages of grief and I would even suggest educating yourself on both grief and trauma when it comes to infidelity.

I can understand your want for the affection to return, I know all I wanted was to hold my BS, love him, show him how much I cared, physical touch is my second love language and that only complicated my feelings about it.

I don't think its selfish or wrong to want these things, and I can't blame you for wanting it. But you would do better to reframe your thoughts on it. Your post certainly comes off as me me me.

He does kiss me (lightly) before he leaves for work, but that's about the extent of it.

but I feel like if I let it go for too long he just won't want to do that at all eventually. And we were a VERY affectionate couple prior to this terrible betrayal!!

have him just genuinely hug me - WANT to hug me.

These statements speak louder than your seemingly concern for his well being regarding this "issue"

I kinda wonder if you think 12 weeks is plenty of time for him to rebound from your betrayal. I don't know how much you've read around here but there is a saying that healing can take 2-5 years, thats his healing from your affair.

However, I do believe you should ask for this affection. Saying something like "I would really love to hold your hand right now, is that ok?" Always ask for consent and only proceed if you feel 100 percent sure he is ok with it and it doesn't feel forced. And don't take it personal and get hurt if the answer is no. I've heard many BWs describe cheating as rape, because had they known they never would have consented to sex or anything else with their cheater and honesty I can't imagine it being different for men. I'm not so sure anyone wants their "rapist" holding their hand.

That may seem extreme to you, but I think with a little more understanding you will see the truth in that statement.

Again with trauma, it induces triggers and even simple things like holding hands and embracing can instantly send one spiraling. We aren't always going to be a welcoming presence in their life, especially 12 weeks out.

How do I get back

Perhaps a more appropriate question is how does HE get back to it? My answer is simply when he feels it in him to do so. His emotional recovery, driven by overcoming a diminished confidence, compromised trust and possibly humiliation and embarrassment will determine when he can physically embrace you with authenticity.

I couldn't look my wayward fiancé in the eyes for months, let alone embrace her affectionately. Eye to eye contact is an unmistakable communication of intimacy, as is holding hands and cuddling etc. It's impossible for me to fake it.

Considering he's just two months past DD, it's possible he's not close to returning to that level of intimacy or it can be right around the corner. I think the key thing here is how patient and supporting can you be if he's not where you want him to be in 6-12 months. Everyone's recovery has a different timetable.

I know why you are concerned, but you need to take a step back and realize that at 12 weeks you are way ahead of the curve. I didn’t have sex with my Ex for 6 months, and then it was her coming to my bedroom, having sex, which was far from the loving sex we once had, and then when I finished, having her leave and go back to her room. As far as touches, holding hands, light kisses, most never returned and when they did it was me gutting it out and not enjoying it. It was done not for me, but pity for her as she was trying so hard.

The fact that he kisses you in the morning at 12 weeks is way more than most WW get even at 6 months or a year. You should rejoice he is as far along as he is at this point and not rush the process. Knowing your wife repeatedly had sex with another man (not minimizing what as BW goes through) is something I wouldn’t want my worst enemy to experience. The fact that it went on for two months which means is wasn’t just some drunken one night stand is hard.

Just keep on the path you are on. You can try to reach out and with caution do for him what you want for you. He doesn’t view you as safe right now, but he doesn’t seem to have the anger I and many of the other men here had going. You are really doing well.

The other thing is what have you done to eradicate any trace of the OM. Is he still in your life? If he is, that will hinder any progress. Telling him you had no reason to have sex with another guy is also not a good answer. Why should he trust you at this point? These are answers you need to address

Did you confess? Or were you caught?

I am the BS. We went through the hysterical bonding phase - and when it started to fade I wanted to keep the intimacy going.
we made a pack to just hold each other when we went to bed.
sometimes we would just talk about our day 0r just lie silently in each other's arms. If it developed in to sex, that was fine - but the main aim was just to hold each other and feel that closeness.

Many tines the BS wants the intimacy - but doesn't want to appear vulnerable. Tell him you just want to hold him - nothing more is expected, Neither one of you are mind readers and he may not know that is what you want and the very thing he wants. If he says no - tell him you understand. Little gestures mean a lot - a touch on the shoulder - a squeeze of the hand.

Sex is great but true intimacy requires a vulnerability that is hard for a BS. At first I felt vulnerable holding him - it felt awkward - but slowly I came to realize I was actually starting to feel safe in his arms.

We agreed to not talk about the A during our "cuddle time" - he would occasionally tell me how sorry he was about the A and he would never hurt me like that again.

The marriage is broken - but little acts of intimacy can go a long way in helping to rebuild. it will take a long time - but if those actions are truly heartfelt and consistent - the marriage can start to heal.

Hey RW, no stop sign so I wanted to provide perspective from one betrayed husband. Not many 2x4's in this, but just a reality check.

As others have noted, you're only 12 weeks out. That's a blink of an eye. By contrast, an 8-week affair (2 months) is not a blink of an eye. It's a lifetime. You spent two months making countless decisions to deceive, betray, lie and more.

Have you written a timeline of the affair, a true and detailed accounting in your own hand, omitting nothing?

Have you offered to take a polygraph on your own?

Have you taken a full STD panel to assure your husband you didn't expose him to life-threatening disease?

Have you gone completely no contact with your affair partner, no ifs, ands or buts?

Does the other betrayed spouse/girlfriend know so that she has autonomy and agency about her own future?

Are you yourself attending individual counseling with a betrayal trauma specialist who will hold your feet to the fire?

Is your husband seeing an IC?

The optimistic take of 2-5 years for a betrayed spouse's brain to heal from the horrific damage of betrayal trauma (which is now being recognized by professionals as having more physical health risks than other types of trauma) is a little too chipper in my opinion. 2 years is rare.

5 years seems more common, and even then we see betrayed spouses showing up here 10, 20, 40 years later filled with self-recrimination and regret that they stayed with a cheating spouse. So I think realistically you're going to need to buckle up for a minimum of 3 years before your husband even feels relatively normal.

You should be prepared for your betrayed husband to decide he'd like a divorce, even five years out (in fact, it's increasingly said that successful reconciliation attempts sharply diminish after the 5-year mark because betrayed spouses tend to think more clearly after this time period)

And that's if YOU do everything "right," stop playing any mind games, stop minimizing, stop blameshifting, stop any limerence for your AP, stop expecting your BH to deliver you affection after your toxic betrayal, are totally and completely transparent with him about everything, and undergo a process of true and authentic metanoia on your own.

Your BH hasn't experienced real anger yet, most likely. He may just now be getting inklings of the oft-crippling rage a betrayed spouse experiences. He hasn't experienced the plain of lethal flatness yet, and you haven't yet experienced being a wayward spouse watching the person you betrayed go through this torture.

I urge you to read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair. Pay special attention to what the author calls "the detain and torture" option that far too many wayward spouses default to in terms of doing the necessary work.

I urge you to read "Things Every WS Needs to Know" posted at the top of this forum. Read both of these several times to let them really sink in. Believe every single word of what is said. Believe it. Absorb it. Don't ignore it, don't think you can breeze your way through this.

I'm reminded of that scene in Empire Strikes Back when Luke tries to bluff Yoda and tell him he isn't afraid. The previously happy elf turns deadly serious and his gaze becomes frightening. "You will be," he says. "You will be."

I think you also need to think carefully about what it's like to be a betrayed husband. Read a lot. Avoid the adultery apologists like Esther Perel. Avoid anything that smacks of "female empowerment" of the Eat, Pray, Love variety.

You have emasculated him, or at least that is how he sees it. Think about what happens to a man or woman when the integrity of their identity as a man or woman is attacked in such a vicious way.

You haven't said whether you confessed or were caught -- and that matters a whole hell of a lot, I can tell you.

The relationship has been permanently altered. The marriage you had is gone. No, really. Literally gone. You're not getting that back. You might - MIGHT - get a new marriage with this man. Maybe. But it will be a completely new thing, and it will always have the shadow of your actions looming behind it in the background. There will always be scars, and scars hurt.

This statement of "seemingly no reason (other than 1,000 of my OWN reasons)" seems to simultaneously lack self-awareness and creeps perilously close to blameshifting onto your husband. If the "1,000 of my OWN reasons" includes your retroactive rewriting of the history of your marriage, some sort of animus or resentment directed at your husband (even if you tell yourself or tell him "it wasn't about him"), or any combination of these, then I'm afraid this reflects continued wayward thinking on your part.

"I am doing it ALL" - what does this mean? I sense a tone of exasperation that you've just busted your ass the past 12 weeks (you like to talk in terms of weeks I notice) and your betrayed husband doesn't seem to be expressing appreciation for your efforts. You're going to have to bust your ass for a lot longer than 12 weeks.

Hysterical bonding will fade, and then, yes, you will be left in a situation where your husband might well be much less affectionate for a good long while. Years, perhaps. He might be willing to give you a peck on the lips now because he's in shock and because you are subtly pressuring him.

What are you prepared to do when the HB fades, and his affections are diminished on a more permanent basis?

Hoping for the best for your husband -- and for you.

EDIT TO ADD: Have you gotten rid of any mementos, gifts, letters, or other tangible physical reminders of the affair, and let your husband know about these? Did the betrayal happen in your own home? Were there times you had sex with your AP and your BH in the same day or within a close time period? (you don't have to answer this last one; just something for you to think about). I could ask a lot more questions, but these are the kinds of questions you need to be asking yourself. The long-term impact of betrayal and an infidelity attack on a betrayed spouse is ramified, and it has a geometric exponential progression. Infidelity is like a universal acid that tends to eat through everything between spouses who previously had a faithful covenant.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:17 PM, Tuesday, October 5th]

BS here - print out what Thumos wrote and read it frequently.

The HB is a thing - and it may come and go. Google Hysterical Bonding. It happened to me and caught me off guard. It also had a dark side. The sex was a-freaking-mazing. I reclaimed what was mine and made it good for me. But when the afterglow wore off, there was a lot of quietly sobbing in the shower that this happened to me and this has become my life. And here I was a BASGU [bad ass sparkly goddess unicorn] that had just had an O-mazing time with my long time husband that had a LTA. What did that say about me? I seriously cried buckets silently over this. Occasionally I still do. I think you should know that about HB. There is the aftermath. It a harsh cycle in many ways. Enjoyable - but there is a dark side. Like an HB Hangover if you will.

Also one thing that stands out to me is that you use a lot of I statements in your post. The question I wanted to see somewhere in there is "how can I help HIM feel safe showing affection again" and that was lacking.

I don't say any of this to 2x4 you. But I do feel strongly you need to understand. Especially about the HB.

Guys, she is gone. Like so many others, she was scared off. I don’t disagree with anything anyone said but I do wish more new waywards would use a stop sign.

How do you get back to physical affection? This is a great question. The first thing would be to how do you get back to the person you were that that you SO felt in love with. One of the things I do in my marriage is to remember the person I was when my wife fell in love with me. Wrote these things down and build on that daily. I knew what she loved most about me when we first met, so I maintain these things and make them better with application of the knowledge/ experiences gained over the years to make them like new every day. I’ve stave off the temptation to cheat or get validation from anyone else, since my focus is on ways to make my SO happy every day. Just like it was when we were first courting. Or when I was trying to win her heart.

Your infidelity added a milestone around your relationship that, based on your post you want to move past quickly. But this milestone is around your husband neck, and you have just pushed him off into the deep blue seas with this gift about him. Your focus needs to be in addition to trying to make him fall in love with you again, is to reduce the weight of the milestone. You cannot take it off, it only happens over time, when he finally forgives you and this burden is not even a passing memory. This takes effort, as now you will have to work on being the better version of you. Which means facing the truth, that you are a bad person, and you never really loved your husband, but is now willing to learn to love.

I hope you're still reading, RW. One thing to note: Although I'm pro-R, every person has to figure out what's best for them, and I'm 'agnostic' on that - maybe it's R, maybe it's D, maybe you need more data before you can decide. IMO, your best bet is to set your goal to be 'change from betrayer to good partner', but whatever you do, don't try to control the R/D outcome.

IMO, one of the things lost during an A is the ability to read each other's body language. You have to ask explicitly for what you want.

You have to ask because neither of you can read each other's minds or body language, and all you've got is explicit requests and responses.

You're 3 months out from d-day, so it's probably a bit early to start asking for things from your BS.

It's probably not too early to start talking about the M you both want and your BS's requirements for R, if R is a possibility.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:03 PM, Wednesday, October 6th]

duplicate

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:09 PM, October 6th, 2021 (Wednesday)]

RW -

If you haven't already, read up in the Healing Library on SI, as well as the what every WS should know at the top of this forum.

If you've been reading on SI, you may find particular users that resonate for you (there are several WW [and WH] here who have successfully Rd, but may not be on SI/posting as much as they did when I first joined). A premium membership to SI not only helps keep the site alive, it also gives access to older posts (I'm a BS, but that's what I did).

There are a lot of resources outside of SI to help you understand what relational betrayal trauma is, what it looks like, and what you might be able to do to help. Let us know if you are interested, and folks will chime in (you can start with the 2 Breecker interviews on Osterlind's 'The Addicted Mind' podcast - but be warned, it will be difficult to listen to two therapists discuss how traumatizing infidelity is to a BS - and don't get dissuaded by the use of WH / BW pronouns - it applies to all of us). Those two went on to do their own podcast, called Helping Couples Heal, which I HIGHLY recommend for both BS and WS.

Another good resource for WS (and BS, IMO) is Brene Brown. Shame is a biggie for most (all?) WS, and learning how to manage it is important. Many BS also experience very deep SHAME (primarily for not leaving/filing for D immediately after dday), so IMO, learning about Brown's research and strategies is a twofer.

I assume you've read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. If not, do that TODAY. I'm told you can get a PDF online for free. It's about 100 pages - maybe a 1-3 hour read, and kind of the roadmap for a WS. IIRC, the author says if there is ONE thing that is crucial for a WS, it's HUMILITY (which is NOT the same as shame). I've always thought a lot of WS may have had better outcomes had they heeded that advice (my own WH included).

At the end of the day, WRT the affection, I would not push it any time soon,... perhaps try to reframe and be GRATEFUL that he's not left, not filed for D, and is experiencing hysterical bonding/having sex. As others have said, this is a major TRAUMA to the BS and while some of us may react differently to trauma (eg I have a PTSD Dx, but not every BS has a trauma response the way I did/do), it is still TRAUMA. If your BS had been hit by a semi truck, or been robbed at gunpoint, or any number of other traumatic things, I suspect (or hope) you would have a ton of patience for his reluctance to engage with you. Here, you are the driver of that trauma, so there is an added layer.

All you can do is be the best person you can be - and work your arse off to become a SAFE partner. Learning about relational betrayal trauma may be a good start and a way to come to terms with the devastation your BH feels, and to find patience and EMPATHY for HIM, rather than focusing on what you are missing due to your actions.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:10 PM, October 6th, 2021 (Wednesday)]

Another good resource for WS (and BS, IMO) is Brene Brown.

One cautionary note on Brown is that she's been doing some interviews with Esther Perel lately, and there are hints in what Brown has said that this is in service of either her or husband’s infidelity. She's made some rather vague statements that sound like the sort of things Jada Pinkett Smith said about her "entanglement." frankly that’s why I cautioned staying away from the overt female empowerment genre for now. In my view she needs to focus on the lived experience of what it’s like to be a betrayed husband.

One cautionary note on Brown is that she's been doing some interviews with Esther Perel lately, and there are hints in what Brown has said that this is in service of either her or husband’s infidelity. She's made some rather vague statements that sound like the sort of things Jada Pinkett Smith said about her "entanglement." frankly that’s why I cautioned staying away from the overt female empowerment genre for now.

Thumos, did you take the time to listen to the podcast, or are you basing said advice on so called hints (possibly rumors you've read on other anti-reconcilliation sites)? While I will be the first to admit Perel misses the mark outwardly in regards to the trauma endured by the betrayed, I would also be disappointed to see someone like you, who claims wholeheartedly to be a man of research and fact, be so careless as to dismiss the advice of someone as well rounded as Brene Brown just because she "had a conversation with Esther Perel." I listened. There were ZERO hints of infidelity, and your statement reads of jaded confirmation bias.

She's made some rather vague statements that sound like the sort of things Jada Pinkett Smith said about her "entanglement." frankly that’s why I cautioned staying away from the overt female empowerment genre for now. In my view she needs to focus on the lived experience of what it’s like to be a betrayed husband.

Not all betrayed are husbands. Some are wives too. Aside from that, please tell me you took the time to investigate beyond hearsay of "vague statements" before coming to this conclusion. There is so much more to be offered if you take the time to open your mind to what others have to say. Those we disagree with can sometimes teach us the most. Also, please enlighten me as to what the "female empowerment genre" has to do with this particular situation?

I fully agree that the OP doesn't quite get the grieving process of the betrayed yet, she seems overly focused on accelerating their progress, and is showing impatience toward the restoration of trust/love/partnership she hopes to achieve. This, in my opinion, is where we should all be focusing our responses. How can we coach her to become the safe partner she seems to want to become, and help her to understand the gravity of the situation she has put her marriage into?

How can we empower her (even though she is female) to become a truly empowered female? A truly empowered female knows how to own their own shit, work on themselves, and become the best version of self that they can be. Shouldn't that be what we strive for?