SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So she can come and go as she pleases but can you still install cameras so you know what shes doing while there?

Thats for protection of your own stuff. So i dont see why that would be an issue.

I think I'm going to relinquish the cats to her after all ( ). The quicker I get out from under this shitshow, the better off I'll be. However, I'm afraid that she won't believe me about the cats due to the fact that I've already changed my mind once about her having them. I originally told her I was making peace with giving them up to her, but then changed my mind by saying I want them as emotional support animals or at least split them up. What makes her think I won't change my mind again?

Most conversation with her regarding the divorce should be through your attorneys

keptmyword - I'm still not sure if I want to/should hire one. If the cat situation can be put to rest, then the only other shared asset that's left is the house. With the housing market being what it is right now, we would both profit most from selling it. If she wants to try to keep it and buy me out instead, then fine, but she'd be flat broke at the end of it all so it's not in her best interest to get a lawyer and fight me on it. However, with that said...

A woman can make a simple call to the police, falsely claim you have been violent or threatening with her, and you may find yourself prohibited from entering or even being near your own home.

Christ. I'd be a colossal idiot for NOT hiring a lawyer, right? A few grand to hire one would be worth the peace of mind of not getting my entire life ruined.

You can resolve the pet issue and her "coming by" like this. She has until X date to get All of her "stuff". Including the cats... Change the locks. If she gets mad — and over reacts - call the police immediately. Then get a restraining order so she’s not able to come to the house.

She’s not in control of this situation or YOU. Stop allowing her to call the shots.

The1stWife - I've changed the locks on her once already and she threatened to call a locksmith because, like I've said before, it's still legally her house too so she can do whatever she wants. The only stuff of hers that's still in the house is a set of couches, her childhood bed in the spare bedroom, a table and chairs, and some kitchen stuff. I can't make her do anything regarding the house or the stuff in it. Even when she does take the rest of her shit out of the house, including the cats, her name is still on the mortgage so she has full access to everything.

So she can come and go as she pleases but can you still install cameras so you know what shes doing while there?

Thats for protection of your own stuff. So i dont see why that would be an issue.

DragnHeart - I don't know how I could even install cameras in my house without her finding them and turning them off or something, rendering them useless and creating less amicability between us. Instead, I may just take everything that I absolutely do not want her to have and bring them to my parents' place or lock them in my car until this all blows over.

Lurkster, if you think you can still negotiate reasonably with your STBX, that's fine. You SHOULD still hire an attorney to make sure that what you are agreeing is in accordance with the law. Your attorney might also have some good suggestions to help you resolve things. Also, they can give you advice an understanding of your position.

I was lucky in my D in that it was not contentious, yet XWW and I had our attorneys do some of the negotiating, and I'm glad I did. Regardless, any items the two of you can resolve without going to court will benefit you both.

The quicker I get out from under this shitshow, the better off I'll be.

Absolutely. I hope you are able to accomplish your goal quickly.

OP - whether she does or doesn’t believe you will return the cats isn’t really relevant. Return the cats to her today. She’ll believe it today.

Any chance of renting a storage unit, prepay for 3-5 months until divorce is final, and put everything of hers in it. Let her have the cats, and access to the storage unit. Give her no reason to come back over there at all. I can't think anything at my house I wouldn't deal to avoid having to hire lawyers and go through a contested divorce, dogs included (which I love deeply).

How are you today?

Have been thinking about the cat situation, as long as you are comfortable she will look after them and not drop them off at a shelter when it gets too hard then let her have them. There are plenty of pets who have found themselves in a shelter for a variety of reasons, some extremely horrific reasons but some are sad like owners have died or owners can no longer afford them, you're looking for a new companion and there are so many pets who just want a new start too, it might be a better combination you and your new pet growing together in a safe loving new home, a new start for both of you. Also giving up both cats does cut ties with your wife.

I agree, with another poster, simply text her and say "ok, you can have the cats, I want you to collect them this week just give me a date/time and I'll have their stuff ready" and make it a quick break, agreeing to give them up but then her leaving them with you is cruel to your heart, if you're going to let her have custody best just do it sooner than later.

How are you today?

Oh, you know, still in love with my cheating, lying, manipulative wife, I have a gaping hole in my chest where my heart used to be, and have no sense of what reality is by thinking that the last 12 years of my life have been a lie. Same as usual this past month and a half since DDay.

Sorry for that reply. It's not the best, but I'm still really raw so I hope you'll forgive me. Bottom line: my ability to spot red flags and end things with women that show them NEEDS to be a big focus moving forward.

As for the cats, they ought to really stay at the house with me until the D is finalized. I found out that my wife doesn't have a permanent place to stay at the moment so if she's bouncing around, then she can't bring the cats with her. That constant change in their lives would be way too stressful on them and she knows that. There's also no way she'll take them and then give them up to a shelter. She loves them just as much as I do.

Why did she decide to blow up our marriage? Why did she check out of it? Because she decided that fucking another man was more enticing to her than deepening her love with me. I wasn't the perfect husband, I made my share of mistakes, but when she was over last week to sleep with the cats, she attacked me with those mistakes I made in the last year when the marriage started spiraling and was trying to play the victim. I tried to take blame where blame is due so I know what to work on, but I also played the blame game on her as well and it just gets us nowhere. I just don't want her to feel better about what she's done by blameshifting. I think she takes advantage of my sensitivity, empathy, and compassion by doing this. Like what The1stWife said, maybe she IS controlling the situation.

[This message edited by Lurkster at 12:58 PM, Tuesday, December 7th]

Please, you do not need to apologise here, sadly we all understand and I apologise if it was triggering. Your last post was a good step forward, more final choices on how to cut her out, was just hopeful you were continuing on that trajectory.

I’m going to paraphrase and mush together some replies from an external blog about waywards who play victim....

Cheaters have a vested interest in NOT getting it, they would prefer to think of themselves as a pretty special awesome person of goodness and sunshine and you’re really fucking things up with the truth, you’re messing with their self image which is highly valued to a cheater, so they blameshift in order to restore that false image. A cheater playing victim is shitty person and shitty people will spoon feed you shit until you put a stop to it and you do that via actions not words. Quit engaging, even if it’s only on an emotional detachment level (look up grey rock method, try to implement it), because if you’re not present, you cannot be manipulated and controlled into being “the bad one”, you put a stop at being spoon fed shit.

... sorry for the swearing, it’s a very sweary blog, but this stuck because it’s so true isn’t it, when a wayward plays victim it’s all about restoring their image and justifying the A via you being the “bad guy”. Since she is not going away anytime soon I do think the grey rock method will help. Sorry to read about the situation with your cats, I feel for you that you can’t get a clean break because true distance, real NC is so healing and healthy. It’s going to be harder to heal while you don’t have NC, since you can’t physically go NC I do think looking into tips on how to disengage, detach and learn how to not be reactive will all help until finally you can be free of her.

you have so many questions because like all BS we don’t think like a wayward, their actions and inconsistencies are so nonsensical to us that when we try to make sense we get stuck instead and that just makes us more confused and hurt. Now you’ve made your mind up to D, for the sake of recovery when you catch yourself dwelling on the questions distract yourself, takes a while to find the best distracting activity for you but you will find that finding a good distracting time sink works to shut down those periods of your mind throwing questions at you that you cannot possibly answer. For me, to begin with, I decided to repaint the entire house to music, I knew there was all likelihood I would have to sell even though I didn’t want to and a house with white walls sells at a better price, well they do in my area, so I figured I would either get the house looking fresh for sale or when I start healing and was in a better place I could transform the bare walls into something new. I also started to heavily purge by selling some of my things on eBay that I could no longer stomach owning, researching prices to sell was a good distracting hobby too.If you catch yourself sitting down stuck in your mind tormenting yourself over her actions see if there is anything that needs your attention and just go do it, keeping busy does help.

Sorry for triggering, truly.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 1:49 PM, Tuesday, December 7th]

I really appreciate people asking how I'm doing, even an internet stranger like you. It reminds me that there are people out there that still care about me in a time where my loneliness is at an all-time high. Me getting triggered is about me. Thank you for asking :)

I know why my wife is doing what she's doing - to make herself believe that what she did is not so bad and that I'm the bad guy that drove her to do it. I tried so hard to be a better man and husband and to get her to open up to me about what's in her head and heart. She responded with saying that it was my anxiety, jealousy, and insecurity (due to her emotionally distancing herself, starting to act like a single woman, interacting with her male coworker on social media a lot, and generally just not putting any real effort into the marriage anymore) that was the reason our relationship wasn't so great. If it wasn't for me, things would be great between us.

I've been trying to gray rock her, but it's tough to not engage with her after having that habit for so long. I want her to understand that she's the one who destroyed our marriage, not me. I'll keep trying to practice gray rock every time we talk.

I like the idea of selling stuff and doing the research of finding prices. That could be a good distraction.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------

I was about to post this response when my wife literally just texted me saying she wants to talk. She says she:

- owes me an apology for some things

- is interested to know what work we would have to do to repair things and if it's actually possible

- misses me and the little family we had with the cats and house

- thinks back to this past year and wonders if what she's missing even exists anymore (uh, what?)

- is very confused

- doesn't want us to run back to each other out of fear

My head, as well as everyone on this website, tells me to have some self-respect and kick this chick to the curb. Of course, my heart still says something different.

[This message edited by Lurkster at 8:28 PM, Tuesday, December 7th]

Yikes. Her texts! You must be so confused right now. She's a mess. I think your best bet is to tell her you both need time to be less confused. Tell her to keep thinking and talking and you will try to listen. You should find out what caused this change in her tune, and you should be very careful about protecting that broken heart of yours right now. GO SLOWLY. You don't have to decide anything without all the information and security you need to move forward. Best of luck finding your way. But please don't let your guard down and begin a false reconciliation if she is not stable or worthy and could hurt you again.

Maybe the player OM has been pulling back now that she’s a “free” woman.

Hell naw to that text.

That is not a safe partner to you, at least not right now.

- owes me an apology for some things

She owes you an apology for her actions, not somethings. Be careful here where she is trying to place some blame on you. Its on her, not you, I wouldn't accept any blame for this mess.

- is interested to know what work we would have to do to repair things and if it's actually possible

She's the WW, she needs to do the work, figure that shit out on her own. If you want to provide some guidance and suggest books for her to read, go for it, but its on her to fix this mess she created. Don't fold on this. She is looking for you to acknowledge where you had shortcomings so that she can place the blame of the fallout and her cheating and her reason for straying on you. You were mean, you didn't pay her attention, you work too much, you didn't love her enough. Its all nonsense. She needs to figure it out, and she is the one who needs to fix herself before you are willing to accept her back. Don't bend on this.

- misses me and the little family we had with the cats and house

Where's her OM? Ask her about that? Maybe he's got cold feet now she's missing you???

- thinks back to this past year and wonders if what she's missing even exists anymore (uh, what?)

Again, she needs to answer this question not you. Don't bail her out and promise how you're going to fix things and be a better husband. She's looking for you to blame yourself and come up with ways to convince her to return. This lady has it backwards. It should be you are wondering if you even want the marriage anymore. Whether or not all the damage that she's done is enough for you to even consider giving her another shot. Whatever the hell she was missing, she should have asked you, told you, and worked on your marriage, instead she went outside the marriage looking for a solution. Now its your turn to look at ending the marriage to see if things will be better for you without her, and YES YOU WILL.

- is very confused

All this means is she's not 100% willing to commit to you. Confused??? Like she's confused if she wants to stay married to you, even though she's the one who cheated and needs to apologize and should be the one begging you to come back. Change your mindset Lurkster, and she will notice.... If you bend, you're just a weak man that is willing to take her shit even though she's cheated on you. Tell her, if you're not confused, she cheated and she is the one who needs to make amends. Confused, go figure it out and we can talk when you're not. Right now Lurkster is going to move forward and work on himself. You may or may not be welcomed back to join, so go figure out why you're confused. She's basically just wondering if her soft landing spot is going to be you or the OM. Don't give her that option.

- doesn't want us to run back to each other out of fear

So don't. Remember, Lurkster, you are the prize. You are not a cheating WW. She is the one that needs to run back to you, not the other way around. As far as you're concerned, you're the Prize and you're not running back to her for fear of being lonely, she is the one who should be running back to you for fear of losing a great Husband. PERIOD. Let her know, you're not running back to her. She can run to her AP all she wants. YOu are moving forward, with or without her, and only if she fixes her shit will you even consider it.

It sounds to me, OP that she is wanting a soft spot to lay her head i.e., YOU, while she is "very confused" and tries to figure out whatever the hell is making her head spin. Wanna make a bet Prince Charming OM didn't want to commit to her as her boyfriend? She wants you to be her Plan B in the meanwhile in any event. Don't fall for it!

So much self-indulgence coming through in your WW's communication, all this blathering about what she wants, what she is looking for, and if it is really out there. Where is there ANY remorse for the pain she caused you. She owes you an apology only "for some things"? Seriously? C'mon.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:45 PM, Tuesday, December 7th]

Sounds like the AP doesn't want your WW other than for a few rolls in the hay. An educated guess. If he totally dumped her she would be putting a full-court press on you to come back. You are plan B and she is a liar and a cheater. Tell her that in a matter-of-fact manner. Show no anger or emotion. Simply state to her that you are sure of your assessment. Also, tell her if she wants to convince you otherwise, she must submit to a polygraph exam. BUT THAT IS HER CHOICE TO MAKE. The divorce will proceed. From your description of her, she will hit the ceiling and tell you to go screw yourself. Translation: I am a lying cheater but I will not admit that to you.

Having gone through this crap years ago, I would not play any games with her. I would tell her that the divorce will proceed. Tell her that there is no rule against the two of you getting back together after the divorce, but she must do a pile of work for you to entertain that idea. But make no promises that you will wait for her metamorphosis. Take control of the narrative. Take control of future events concerning the marriage. Don't let her define the outcome. Don't just get angry or mad. Now is the time to coldly do what has to be done. Do not fight with her and do not engage in any further conversation unless it has to deal with the dissolution of the marriage. I would tell her that it is time to put the house up for sale. See if she will agree to it. Do it. Good luck and don't let her decide what happens.

OM is losing his shine and she is making sure her Plan B (you) still wants her, or OM has other plans over christmas and she doesn't want to be alone... or she still wants a present from you.

- owes me an apology for some things

Don't assume this apology is for the A(s), most likely she will spin it in a way that isn't really an apology at all, mostly likely something like "sorry I have been so unsure, it's just you have been [XYZ shift blame here], and it's been so confusing".

- is interested to know what work we would have to do to repair things and if it's actually possible

noooooooope, if she was remorseful she would have plugged "how to repair my marriage", or something similar, into google and do the bare basic work. She is still making you do all the work here and she will flip the script when you attempt to tell her what those things are with a giant "well what are YOU going to do to make me feel valued" etc and so forth. Nope, don't even address this there are literally hundreds of books and articles and web links all offering advice on what she needs to do here and this text shows she doesn't even truly care about the work she has to do. If anything this is a hoovering text, trying to keep you hooked on hope for some reason, making you believe she is interested in R when in truth her actions show she can't even do the basic research herself. Pretty sure you would have given her some indication/direction on how to start anyway and she wasn't paying attention because it was of little interest to her at the time.

- misses me and the little family we had with the cats and house

Which shows how little she thought about you at all during her affair, she didn't even think about consequences and now she is facing those consequences it's bumming her out.

- thinks back to this past year and wonders if what she's missing even exists anymore (uh, what?)

OM is losing his shine, she thought she had something exciting (that is what she thinks was missing), now the fantasyland ride is coming to an end and it wasn't so fun after all.

- is very confused

OM is losing his shine, reality is creeping in on her and she doesn't like it and doesn't know what to do since she thought she was so smart and had worked it all out.

- doesn't want us to run back to each other out of fear

UGH! F her for texting this, again she is grouping you together but she is just talking about herself here, hope you can see that. Who knows what her fear is but my guess is she is fearful of both settling (with you) or being alone forever (if she Ds). You're safe and comfy but that's it, she doesn't want to be alone, scared of it in fact, but at the same time she doesn't want to be with you simply because of that safety she wants the unrealistic 'fireworks forever' relationship.

- - - - -

Hopefully you haven't responded.

As for grey rock it took me so long to get it right, my problem was how reactive I was, had to work hard on truly thinking before I spoke even if that response was a textbook grey rock "uh-uh, sure" lol. Practice makes perfect.

The eBay thing was great TBH, I was able to start new hobbies I couldn't afford with the cash I made, some items didn't sell well but I kind of had fun heavily discounting it as well.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 12:02 AM, Wednesday, December 8th]

Her actions, blameshifting, and gaslighting have shown you who she really is…now believe her.

If you value yourself and your mental health, do not just take her back, she needs a LOT of counseling to get her head right, and you do not owe her any loyalty while she does this.

If she wants to apologize, be gracious but do not resume your relationship, finish the D, wish her well, and move on with your future.

I'm still not sure if I want to/should hire one.

Google it and within an hour you will have all the info you need to do self-surgery to remove your appendix. You will also hear of a Russian doctor stranded in a research camp on the Antarctic that actually did remove his own burst appendix so it definitely can be done.
However… I’m guessing that if you have a pain in your side that constantly get’s worse you would AT LEAST consult a trained and certified doctor before searching for the cheapest provider of scalpels and stitches.
In fact, I’m pretty certain you would prefer a trained surgeon in the correct environment did the job rather than you on your newly cleaned kitchen tabletop.

So why not get a professional to help with the divorce?

It doesn’t have to be 2 attorneys at each other’s throats spending hours arguing over the IKEA cutlery. YOU want YOUR attorney to go over any proposed final agreement to ENSURE each and every i is dotted and every t crossed. It’s not so much to enable you more gain as it is for peace of mind. She doesn’t even have to know – you simply meet with him with the proposed settlement and have him go over it.

For example: You do NOT want a collections agency phoning you because of the Best Buy card you two took out as Mr and Mrs Lurkster and last used to buy the new TV in your ex wife home. Or have to pay for damages to the rental apartment because you were on the agreement when it was signed. It’s not enough that you two negotiate debt – marital debt needs to be settled with the relevant owner of the debt. These are things an attorney knows and points out.

I'm sure you're wondering what she has to say, but I still strongly advise you to hold on and not engage with her. If she really wants it that much, she will convey what she has to say to you somehow. Probably via e-mail or text.

As others have said, she probably saw that the grass wasn't greener on the other side. But she probably tried other alternatives before she came to this. You can't even be sure that she has spent every night at her friend's house since she left home, and probably she didn't.

Her writing shows that she still intends to negotiate with you rather than fix herself.

Her apology will probably be not because she cheated, but because she lied to you and concealed her meeting with him. (But probably still nothing happened!)

is interested to know what work we would have to do to repair things and if it's actually possible

WE?
Yes, since you both ruined the marriage, you have to repair things together! See her mindset?

I don't want to talk about her other nonsense one by one. Others have already made very good points. Don't buy any of those.

You shouldn't expect anything from her, including an apology. It doesn't matter anymore.
To be a good person, you don't expect anything in return. If she wants to fix herself and be a decent person, it's for her own good to do so without you. In fact, it is not seen in her writings that she even had such an intention.

Again, do not engage with her. She is standing by the corpse with a bloody knife in her hand and you are trying to convince her that she is the murderer. You know the truth, she knows the truth (better than you), so there is nothing to argue. If you attempt a false R, her demeanor says she will do the same in the not-too-distant future.
Move on with your life and don't accept her plan B.

Lurkster:

For more than a year your WW has made you feel insecure in your M. Looking back at your posts it’s clear that your WW is questioning whether she wants to be married, not only to you, but to anyone. You have noted her questioning and confused and wanting to sow her wild oats. Whatever the extent of her relationship with the COW AP, she lied to you and broke your trust and went to his house alone and thought about cheating. She is the one who decided it is too much to work on the M and told you she wanted to split.

You can talk to her if you decide it is worth your time. See what she has to say. But don’t argue or engage. Bottom line: you deserve to be in a M with a committed partner who values and cares for you. From what you have shared I doubt you are plan B. You have described the AP as a pathetic player and your WW sees no future with him. But I do not think you want to be married to a partner who is constantly chafing at her marital vows and questioning why she is married. Value yourself. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:33 PM, December 7th (Tuesday)]

I told her we can talk tomorrow when I get home from work. I'll hear her out, but I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking from her. Right now, I'm not in a good place to give her another chance anyway, but in the best place I've been in to reject her ass and proceed with D. I'm ready to walk and never look back.

The way I see it: I either get back the woman I fell in love with and married who will make me and our marriage her top priority for life OR I find someone better who values me and who has integrity, honesty, and loyalty so either way, I win!

I would not take her back without her moving heaven and earth to show me she is serious about R. The D will proceed, but if she wants to try R, then her work starts by taking the right actions to show me she's a changing woman. Even then, I'm going to continue to live my life without her and not wait around for her to maybe change one day.

I need to know what I want as a man and husband to determine what work needs to be done on my part. So, what do I want? I want my wife, but not as she is now. On the other hand, she probably doesn't want me the way I am, either. I won't say that to her, but it will be part of the work I do towards myself without her. Become the man I was before I met her.

As far as a baseline, she needs to cut off all contact with OM forever, meaning she has to quit her job. She really likes her job so if she refuses, then we can't be together. Period. Only when that happens can we then continue our talks towards potential R, though the D will likely be finalized before then.