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On the other hand, can the truth be any worse than what I already have in my head as to what I suspect happened?

One, knowing the truth restores your AGENCY in the marriage. How can you make a good decision whether to R or D without knowing what and who you're actually dealing with? How can you be sure of your decision?

Two, sometimes, the full truth turns out to be a dumpster fire shit show that makes sure you're running to the D lawyer at full speed. Other times, the mind movies running in your head 24/7 are so much worse than what actually happened. Not knowing the full truth leads to everlasting uncertainty in your mind and heart, and can seriously jeopardize your attempts to R.

It doesn't take long to find stories in the reconciliation forum of BSs that are struggling in R years later because they're sure they don't have the truth, and doubt they'll ever get it. On the other hand, finding out the whole truth, especially if she finally voluntarily opens up EVERYTHING, is often the basis for a strong R.

No, your marriage won't ever be the same. It will be different. But different isn't always worse. If you R, you're in a new relationship with a different person, and for damn sure, you won't be the same ever again. If you D, you're still a different person, but with a whole new life. But, neither will happen without uncertainty until you have your agency back again, and that requires the truth.

Friend. Your WW needs to write a complete timeline of her affair that will be verified by her taking a poly. There’s an extremely high likelihood that she physically cheated - all of the evidence is pointing that way.

If she is serious about saving the M, she will jump at the chance to prove her story with a poly. If she refuses then she most likely had a PA.

Many, many, BHs come on here with the exact same story. I would say the vast majority say a poly isn’t necessary. Way to many of them return to say at some point down the line I wish I had listened to you guys because I just found out it was a PA, or her EA turned into a PA as she was still cheating. Timeline verified by a poly!

I think a poly is my best option at this point, as I do not see her changing her story, partially to try and save our marriage, and partially to save face with friends and family.

She does not want to be seen as "that woman", although she chose to become just that.

Knowing how she is, she will NEVER share the truth with me unless she is caught red handed, assuming she is not telling the truth, which I'm 99% of.

Are the voice recorders legal to use?

They may not be legal in some cases depending on where you live and the circumstances, but what if they aren't ? you don't need VARs to prove she's cheating in front of a judge, VARs are a tool for you to get the unfiltered truth, to know what she's really feeling/saying when you're not in the same room with her, I always say that after reading thousands of stories here on SI and other forums, I can't recall a single incident where the BS faced any legal consequences for having used a VAR, even on cases where the VAR was discovered, but then again, life comes with risks and for me and many the risk of getting the unvarnished truth to make a life altering decision by far outweighs any legal consequences that could come for the use of a VAR. When cheaters know they're caught they have much bigger fish to fry, especially if they want a second chance to R in a long M, typically if they want R the last thing they will do is make matters worst by accusing the BS of using a VAR. Again these are tools that have stood the test of time and are often recommended for a reason, they are effective and the risks are minimal if any at all.

I think a poly is my best option at this point, as I do not see her changing her story, partially to try and save our marriage, and partially to save face with friends and family.

She does not want to be seen as "that woman", although she chose to become just that.

Get the VARs in place before you even mention the poly, often times cheaters will run to contact their APs to tell them about it and even ask for advice on how to dissuade their BSs or beat the polygraph test. You don't have to use just one "option", you can use more than one tool at the same time to increase the chances of getting results much faster, you still don't know the extent of her betrayal and are still in the discovery period, and for that VARs are at the very top of things you can use to get to the truth as much and fast as possible along GPS trackers and PIs when necessary.

You have to get the complete truth.

There is one exception. That is sexual details. Those can stick in your brain.

It is actually the opinion of most experts.

Hell this site is loaded with guys who saw videos or who caught them in the act. The marriage is almost guaranteed to end so there is truth to it.

But you need to know the facts. Did they have sex? How many times? Where did they have sex? How did it start? What did she say she was doing when she was cheating?

These are important because

1 - it’s important just like writing the timeline for her to see how despicable her acts were and how much she betrayed you.

2 - you need to know every lie she used and what happened so the same behaviors are never done again.

If she gets away with nothing ever happened when she was hooking up with him at the bar then the door will still be open to go to the bar and meet someone else. Now she meets Steve and repeats the pattern. "I learned my lesson the first time and now I will be on good behavior with Steve as we start dating"

You need to investigate this fully now as you need to move on and work on the relationship.

Don’t drag your feet and get this beginning investigation process done. Quickly.

Also for the love of god tell that man’s wife immediately.

There have been a couple guys on here recently who have such a problem with this.

Do as everyone says but first

TELL THE WIFE. RIGHT NOW! Number 1 tell the wife. Number 2 tell the wife. Number 3 tell that sack of S@&t’s wife ASAP.

It may not help that much or it could be even better than a poly.

She could go through his phone and find proof. She might get a confession.

The one thing even if it does not seem to help that much in the surface. It will help a lot.

She will very likely keep him on a leash.

You want access to phones and tracking.

But not telling his wife is like putting defenses around only one side of your base and leaving the other side unguarded.

Tell his wife. It’s not optional. It’s required.

Don’t mean to be mean. I know you’re really hurting.

It’s ok to make mistakes. This is one of the hardest things you will ever have to go through.

I truly wish you the best.

Knowing how she is, she will NEVER share the truth with me unless she is caught red handed, assuming she is not telling the truth, which I'm 99% of.

I think that this is very important, specifically as it pertains to you.

Are you okay living in a marriage with the above? Knowing that your wife would prefer to be dishonest with you, no matter how much you hurt, than give you your agency? How vulnerable and intimate can a marriage be KNOWING that their partner would rather take their secrets to the grave than give you the respect of having the truth?

Honesty is at the foundation of a strong relationship. Anything otherwise built upon it is bound to topple.

she doesn't want divorce because you are the safety net. She should not be having these kinds of relations with this guy. Hire a PI, get whatever info you need.

Her transparency and trust is shot. Sorry man but it is.

Stop the poly talk. She already has someone lined up and he lives in your beighborhood. That is like your high school team playing the LA Dodgers. You will get ruined. It also is something that can't be undone.

Recover the texts (multiple apps do it), expose if this guy is married and also be prepared to expose her to all friends and family and bring her to her knees if need be. This is an in or out situation but you need to know what you are forgiving and the fact that you are leaning on staying, even though you don't know the details, shows that you are leading from a position of weakness.

Lead from a position of strength. Show you are out the door if this conduct continues, know what you are forgiving or not, and go from there.

Poly ? she will have this guy everynight or every 2 nights and you will feel worse for it. Studies and based on my readings, the guy normally loses those battles 90% of the time. Once you get a woman interested in you, she will try to close the marriage because she can't cak eat anymore. Did you get married to her so she could sleep with other guys ? How many great women out there are available to you if you were single and you don't have to deal with the emasculation.

Please stop the poly talk, ensure there's no communication, file for D if you have to and get her out of the house if need be.

If she's apologetic and doesn't want a divorce, why are you switching to 'poly' all of a sudden ? This is your golden chance to bring her back into the fold and get her to stop cheating. Then keep upi the investigative work to figure out what you are forgiving and make a determination of your own. Be in the lead. Don't be a follower

I agree with Solarchick

You said that you exposed your ww to friends and family. What did they say, especially her parents? I'm not sure if I missed it somewhere here but did you expose this to the AP's wife? And you're asking for the truth.....this will never happen. She'll always leave something out "just so she doesn't hurt your feelings", what a load of bs. Good luck.

Tech experts can retrieve deleted texts.

Thank you all for opening up my eyes to this crazy BS.

She has already been talking with her father and brother about this, in front of my 20 year old daughter who is recovering from major hip surgery, doing complete CYA.

I realized tonight that another night she was not reachable was a night that she knew I had to work (I'm in IT, and this was a long deployment that kept me up for many hours). Even her own brother reached out to me that night because he couldn't reach her, and this was a night that she claimed she was showing our rental house to somebody, as we have it up for sale.

I came home from the rental tonight after preparing it for an inspection, as we have a pending sale. My wife was in the bathtub, and never came downstairs. She has also changed passwords of some of our accounts.

I don't see any path to keeping this marriage alive, and I am freaking devastated.

I am so devastated that it hurts.

Thanks to all for listening and for your feedback. I will proceed to file for divorce.

This hurts so freaking bad.

Sorry for another reply, but I have to ask...

Is there any risk with the divorce if I choose to leave the house for some time to live somewhere else?

I don't know that I can stay in this house over the weekend with her here.

You do need to speak with an attorney about leaving the house. If you need to leave for a few days you can just have work as an excuse. Longer than that, I'd speak with an attorney.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Believe it or not, you will come out the other side, and you will be ok. It's the in between part that's a b****.

She has also changed passwords of some of our accounts.

Are these bank accounts ? anyway, as a precaution we often recommend that you withdraw half of all monies in joint accounts and put them in a bank account in your name only, also close all joint credit cards, do it tomorrow and before you tell her you are filing for D.

Is there any risk with the divorce if I choose to leave the house for some time to live somewhere else?

I don't know that I can stay in this house over the weekend with her here.

Talk to your attorney before leaving the house, it could be seen as "abandonment" and could affect custody if there are minor children involved, you can't force her to leave but why don't you ask her to leave because of her huge betrayal ? she's the one that cheated after all, OTOH leaving for a couple of days to clear your head shouldn't be a problem.

As previously advised. Seek legal advice before doing anything financially or leaving. Vacating an abode may be construed as abandoning the spouse, family or family home.
One day at a time.

We know how much this crap hurts. We wait and wait for our 'old' spouse to return, and every hour, day, week....that they don't.....just blows our mind. It really makes us question reality.

Like I said before, your path is towards divorce at this time. It is not definite. I don't like building false hopes, but I don't like stating that something is impossible, when it often times is not. But if you keep on this path, and keep processing the pain, it gets better. Much better.

Absolutely agree with the others about seeking legal advice before leaving your primary residence. Unfortunately, you don't know what your wife will/will not do as you head toward dissolving the marriage. The last thing that you need....and we have seen it a thousand times here....is a partner who becomes petty and vindictive. It is another blindside, as we just can't imagine our partner would do this....until they actually do.

You have to protect yourself emotionally, legally, and financially. This is where the consults will help. Having a realistic landscape painted for you will often help from letting your imagination run wild.

Friend

Each and every case is different and unique BUT at the same time they are all the same…
YOUR instance is unique in that it’s you and your wife and your marriage and your life. However – lots of her actions, behaviors, your actions and responses… are stereotypical and boilerplate for infidelity.
It’s a bit like if you drop an egg off a table to the floor then in 9 out of 10 instances the egg will crack. Maybe even 99 out of 100. But there is always that one… It becomes a question of how often you think you are unique enough to have beaten all the odds…
Keep that in mind – what we share here is based on repeated and collective experience. We can (and I will) be telling you things as if they were facts, when in all probability they are more like things that are likely to happen or have happened.

First of all: regarding your question on trust.
The old and probably not so sensible blind trust is gone forever. It’s probably a good thing too, because blind trust isn’t really healthy trust. Like in the "old days" if your wife told you she was going to the store to get some milk on a Friday night but was dressed in that slinky cocktail dress and all done up… you might have trusted her despite some misgivings.
It’s replaced by trust-but-verify. For now, and the next couple of years if your wife says she’s going to the store – chances are you verify. You see if there are new groceries, if the timings are appropriate, if she’s secretive, if there is a financial transaction… You VERIFY. With time – when she’s confirmed she’s doing what she says when she says – the need to verify drops but it’s never replaced by blind trust.
It’s like if you have a new employee. You might be keeping tabs on him meeting deadlines for the first weeks, but if he repeatedly does so you give more leeway, and it becomes more of a check-in rather than constant monitoring.
So… to regain trust she needs to be an open book and accept that there is no trust. That it needs to be rebuilt, and that is done through verification.

Second: You can only fully deal with what you know. In other words: if you don’t think you know everything there is no way you can deal with the infidelity in the marriage.
I have this theory (and it’s not even mine, it’s probably the common consensus here on this site) that if you have the truth, you can possibly recover from ANYTHING. Doesn’t mean you should or that every marriage should be saved, but I honestly believe that if you know the truth you have a chance of working things out. That’s why we have esteemed members that have reconciled from multiple affairs, long-term affairs and comparable situations.
The level of truth is dependent on what you need. In your instance you question if it was ever physical. While you have that doubt there is no way at all that you can really reconcile.
Furthermore – if you were to try to reconcile and make seemingly good progress then all that progress would be set back if you discovered 10 months from now that they kissed. THAT knowledge at THAT time has the potential of causing more damage than learning NOW that they had sex.

The level of detail you need is dependent of what YOU need. For some knowing there was physical contact is enough and no further detail needed. Some need more info, as was it oral, kissing, full-on-sex or whatever. It’s dependent on your needs.
I want to stress this: Learning NOW that they were at it like rabbits will cause less permanent damage than thinking nothing happened, and then discovering a year from now they made out.

I’m going to suggest the following action plan for you:

First of all – let the OM wife know. Do this without any conversation or warning to your wife. It’s not about her, but about you. You don’t have to lie to her or say anything more than you know. Just contact her (and do this in a gentle and kind way) and say something like:
Hey – I think you need to know that my wife and your husband had a relationship that I think is inappropriate for two married people to have. This is what I know … [put content here]. My wife denies it ever got physical but acknowledges it was inappropriate. I don’t know if she’s telling the truth, but I believe you need to know about this."

That’s it. You don’t have to prove anything to her nor dictate what she does with the info. Chances are she will confront her husband, and that’s all you want. It’s not revenge but rather an incentive for him to stop sniffing around your wife. If she goes calling and her White Knight tells her to piss off… it’s a real mood-breaker.

Next step is to tell your wife something along these lines:
Wife. I really want to save our marriage and I truly think that if we commit to it, we can. But I have also realized that I want a true marriage, and that whatever we had was wrecked the moment you started your affair with OM.
I can’t work at saving something if I don’t know HOW wrecked it is. I don’t want a quasi-marriage, and while I am constantly doubting you there is no way we can be married. I want to make you this offer:
Tell me the TRUTH down to the level of detail I ask for. Validate that truth with me. We can use phone-logs, financial accounts, messages, social media… whatever… to support that what you say is true. Do this and NO MATTER what you tell me I will commit to not filing for divorce for the next 60 days. That gives us time to deal with whatever dark issue might come to the surface. If you have already told me the truth… well… great. You have nothing to risk once you have convinced me.
At some point – when you state I know everything I ask for – we will do a polygraph. What this does is create a base we can work from. If you pass, I will accept I have the truth and work from that. If you fail… well… that will tell me, you don’t trust me with the truth and since you don’t trust me, and I don’t trust you we don’t have anything to base a marriage on. At least we can move on from there and seek an amicable divorce.

This is what I need to move on as a married couple. If you aren’t willing then we both have to accept that this marriage is over, and let’s just be open and honest about it and work things out to an amicable divorce.
I have told you what I want – I have told you what I need. Its now up to you to let me know what you want to do with that.

Western: He is not talking about poly relations. He is talking about polygraph.

I was in the Poly camp but only to provide the clarity to the reality that you seemed to be struggling to accept. It seems that you ws recent actions has provided that clarity in that your WW is not your friend nor a partner in fixing this marriage. Let your friends and family know what you know. That your WW is in an inappropriate relationship with OM (name him). At this point seeing an attorney, yesterday if that was possible, and following their advice in protecting yourself as best as possible financially, socially, and mentally from her selfishness acts is where your focus needs to be. Your WS is ahead of you in this, and she has proven herself to be a selfish person. Please contact the other man's wife. Not to save your marriage, but to allow her the same agency in dealing with this.