SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My wife and I have been together for 23+ years and married for almost 21. When we first started dating, she was a junior in college two states away. We told each other we weren’t dating anyone else, but I later found out from her, she did continue dating other guys. That summer things got very serious with us to the point she wanted to marry. I convinced her to hold off until she graduated. She went back to school and I visited often. Throughout her senior year I would get a feeling in my gut and that she may not be faithful, but she always brushed it off and convinced me (and her friends) I was being "controlling and paranoid". By the time she was ready to graduate, we were planning our lives together and I was supporting her graduating in every way possible. When she got out of school I gave her my car and we happily started planning a wedding. During this time, she shared that the first weekend back in school she and her roommate had spent a weekend with two guys in another school. She slept in one guys bed with him, but nothing happened except him giving her a massage. Then right before and during the week she graduated, there was another guy she met at a party. She claimed nothing physical happened. She always said "she just wanted some attention". I was furious at these confessions, but forgave her. We pushed a wedding back a bit and did go to pre-marital counseling. I was fairly convinced I knew everything, but always had a feeling she wasn’t completely truthful.

Fast forward 10 years. We were going through some trying times financially. We were both working, with me working a lot to get out of the hole we were in. Our communication and intimacy suffered. One evening I came home and she was sobbing uncontrollably and just kept saying "I’m sorry, I’m sooo sorry!" Asking me to forgive her. She had watch a movie that involved cheating and ended badly for the offending party. I kept asking what happened and when she calmed down she told me there was a guy at work that was interested in her, but nothing happened. It was stopped before it could. I didn’t buy that, so she told me she did go on lunch dates with him and he massaged her shoulders at the office, but that was it. She eventually told me whatever did happen stopped because a co-worker was uncomfortable with whatever it was that was happening and the manager called her co-worker in and reprimanded him. After this she said everything stopped. All along though, she states that whatever happened we share the blame, because our marriage was struggling.

Last year while we were celebrating our 20th anniversary something happened that made me jealous, which lead to a long conversation where she "finally came completed honest" about some of what happens above. She said she did kiss one of the guys while at college, but that was it. She also came clean about some of her physical history when we started dating. I didn’t really believe she was being completely honest yet, especially about the co-worker while we were married, which she still partially blames me for. I saw a therapist a few times and he seemed to agree. I don’t sleep well, I think about it a lot, and I still bring it up to her. When we do talk about it, she tells me she was glad her manager ended it and by that point she was annoyed by the guy. I’ve since looked at her phone when she wasn’t around and went through old messages. It looks like a co-worker knew about it, and she mentioned how mad she was at the whistleblower because "she had a big mouth". She still messaged the guy and other old coworkers to see how he was doing after she quit that job and we moved away. Nothing too bad on the messages except for her complaining about the whistleblower.

I’ve thought about reaching out to her old manager, who is an acquaintance, to see if her story holds up and asking her to let me go through her phone to see of messages, emails, etc. Am I going too far with this? Have I driven myself crazy? I feel like I need to know for sure and I don’t trust her because she’s lied to me our entire relationship. I love her and have two awesome kids that I love and want to protect from this. What should I do?

Hi City2Country, welcome to SI. Sorry that you found yourself here, but you'll get lots of support.

All along though, she states that whatever happened we share the blame, because our marriage was struggling.

This is gaslighting 101 from the cheater's handbook. You two were in the same marriage, yet only she cheated. So if you shared the blame then why didn't you cheat as well? She's trying to pass of blame onto you so that she can feel better about herself and not take the entire blame. Truth is, only she cheated, and it is 100% only her fault for her cheating. It doesn't matter how much financial stress you had, it's up to her to speak to you within your marriage about her issues. She didn't do that, instead she sought comfort outside the marriage. Don't let yourself be fooled by this redirection by her.

Am I going too far with this? Have I driven myself crazy? I feel like I need to know for sure and I don’t trust her because she’s lied to me our entire relationship.

No you are not crazy. You know why? Because you don't trust her. Why don't you trust her? Because she has proven to be untrustworthy. So how are you crazy for feeling your true feelings?

Your title says "Something doesn’t feel right". That's your gut feeling telling you that your wife is bullshitting you and gaslighting you.

What should I do?

Well step 1 is not to let yourself be further gaslit. Do what you need to do to get to the truth. Then see if this A and deceit is a deal breaker for you. You don't have to offer R if this is a dealbreaker.

And please take care of your physical health and mental health. Be sure to eat (even if you don't feel like it), and sleep.

My friend, you have not gone far enough. Tell her you’re putting all of this on the table and dealing with it. Have her write out a timeline of all of these incidents as well as any other inappropriate behavior back to when you first became exclusive. Make sure you use an agreed upon date. Tell her it will be verified by polygraph. Follow through even if you get a confession of new incidents and/or further details of the known ones.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 9:24 PM, Wednesday, June 21st]

we have a similar situation except I'm farther down the road. Read my profile and always trust your gut.

I’m sorry you have had to find us, but glad you did. She is still lying to you by omission. Rug sweeping never works and eventually it will have to come out and be dealt with. Your gut is screaming at you and your W is gaslighting.

Sit her down and tell her it’s time to come clean, demand a full written timeline. Tell her you know more than she thinks and leave it at that. If you reach out to the old boss, don’t tell her, do not reveal your sources and don’t tell her about this site.

Until she is confronted and honest she is still acting wayward. She will continue to seek external validation.

She a serial cheater and as such she will never stop cheating.

Put a VAR under the driver's seat in her car. You'll find out all kinds of stuff that you didn't know about.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 2:23 AM, Thursday, June 22nd]

Hi, welcome to SI. So sorry you find yourself here.

Keep in mind, cheaters lie. All of them. They lie, they deny, they blameshift, they manipulate, anything to help them keep their disgusting behavior a secret. Blaming you for her actions? Nope. Don't ever accept blame, she owns her own actions.

I agree with asc, you need a timeline. BTW, men don't seek married women to chat...

I'd definitely contact her previous manager, but do not tell your wife you are doing this. Do not ever reveal your sources, and please dont ever tell her about this site...it's your safe space.

Your gut is screaming, trust it.

I'm wondering if she gaslit you with her mini confession and came partially clean because a co-worker threatened to inform you of what she was doing...with cheaters anything is a possibility, and personally I don't buy she watched a movie which was her motivation to confess.

^^^^^^^ I agree with all that everyone has suggested above. Especially the Timeline. Very important.

At the top of this page is The Healing Library. There is a wealth of information in the library. Please make use of it. Especially the Articles section. In the Discovery/Confrontation section are two articles you should definitely read. One is A Tactical Primer. The other article is Getting the Truth.

Good luck.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 9:56 PM, Wednesday, June 21st]

she mentioned how mad she was at the whistleblower because "she had a big mouth". She still messaged the guy and other old coworkers to see how he was doing after she quit that job

Looks like dog shit, smells like dog shit, feels like shit, tastes like dog shit, I’d recommend not stepping in it.

She was, at least, in an EA and is apparently not remorseful about it and still pines for the guy. Some of her friends are enablers and need to be gone.

You need to back the truck up and approach this, systematically, from the beginning. This was basically rug swept, never resolved and continues to fester, just beneath the surface, laying dormant, ready to re-emerge when conditions permit.

If you’re both interested in actually reconciling this, definitively, she needs to completely disclose everything with a detailed timeline, polygraph. She needs to be completely transparent, turn over all electronics, provide access to emails. She needs to ditch the crap friends. She needs IC, boundaries, etc. You need to approach this like a D-day, like she actually cheated. Because she actually did.

As a supervisor myself in a professional setting, I do not intervene in the personal lives of my subordinates unless something grossly inappropriate is going on. Co-workers ‘usually’ don’t complain to upper management about the personal lives of their peers unless something very disturbing and inappropriate is going on. As a married man, I never carry on covert non-professional communications with the opposite gender. I never hide things from my spouse.

Your wife has already crossed enough lines here to follow through with your due diligence without self doubt, without shame or being shamed.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:07 PM, Wednesday, June 21st]

I’m reading all the responses and appreciate them. I’m still digesting some of this, but am putting together a plan around what much of you have said. It does feel good (not sure if that’s the right word), do get some of this out somewhere where I’m understood. I will be reading the sited articles/posts and covering all bases before confronting her again.

Thank you

Anything is possible. Meaning, she may have repeatedly sought attention from a number of guys, gotten it but then stopped short of sex. That is possible. However, it seems highly unlikely that this would be the case for an adult woman. I think the office situation sounds like it may have been busted before it progressed. But the college events? Hmmm, unlikely. "I slept in bed with a guy after a long night of partying but nothing happened but a massage". That one in particular is really hard to believe. Could be true, but it is highly unusual. If you had no intent of anything sexual, why wouldn't you just sleep on a couch or leave and go home?

I said that the office thing may well have been busted before it progressed. A counterpoint to that is why would she have been sobbing uncontrollably when disclosing it if nothing really happened? Seems like an overreaction for just some flirty banter and a lunch date, doesn't it? Unless she was mixing in sleeping with the guys in college in her guilt.

She slept in one guys bed with him, but nothing happened except him giving her a massage.

She must be have been very relaxed when she went to sleep.

You know they had sex right?

Even up until this time, she's still displaying the same behaviours because you find out, get a little upset then move on.

Polygraph will bust that dam wide open because she's had sex and probably a few affairs

Am I correct that the incidents she’s admitted to were in the past and you don’t have reason to believe she’s being unfaithful now?

If so then this is what I would suggest:

Make it clear to her that what you already know is bad. It’s bad enough that if you BOTH don’t deal with it then it will negatively affect the complete rest of your marriage. Either she’s keeping something back, and that will gnaw away at her forever, or you aren’t convinced you have the truth and that will gnaw away at you forever. Either way it makes you two incapable of the marriage you both deserve and want.

The KEY to recovery is knowing what you are recovering from.

Was it just a massage?

Nothing physical with the graduation-guy?

What about the work guy?

Your whole post tells me you don’t think you have the truth.

Our experience with WS indicates she’s holding back.

We don’t know. You don’t know.

Recovery isn’t possible.

Make it totally 100% clear to her that she needs to trust you with the truth. You can make a commitment to her: no matter what the truth is you commit to working on the marriage for 3 months.

But only if she trusts you with the truth.

Then have her write a timeline with the level of detail you need.

If you have ever strayed then keep that in mind when reading.

But make it clear that any truth NOW will cause less damage than discovering 1-2 months from now she’s holding back.

Make it also clear that at some point in the near future you will ask her to take a poly.

Point out that the poly will strongly support her truth – or strongly indicate she’s lying. If the former then you can start working towards R based on what we can assume is true. If not – she doesn’t trust you.

t/j: I don’t know what the definition of "serial cheater" is to some users. 23+ years and all we know is that at a young age before marriage she spent time with 2 men, and that someone at work gave her a massage… I think posters really need to think if their input is intended to help or to hurt…

edited to add:
First time I got my present wife to sleep in the same bed with me she refused sex. We only cuddled. She slept like a baby. Me… well… I had a hard-on that made sleep difficult, but I did respect her wishes.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:14 PM, Thursday, June 22nd]

she told me there was a guy at work that was interested in her, but nothing happened. It was stopped before it could.

If this is a direct quote from her, I would definitely look into this more. "Nothing happened…it was stopped before it could". What would have happened? Why didn’t SHE stop it? Why did it take outside intervention? Why did she continue her inquiries into him long after the fact? Why did she initially hide all this from you?

This sounds like an EA to me and should be processed as such so you both can learn, heal and definitively move on from this.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 7:13 PM, Thursday, June 22nd]

I have been the recipient of unwanted attention from guys at work. I always told my H about it and NOTHING happened. There was no EA or secret lunch dates etc. The guys all knew I was married and I honestly believed they were just fishing for a side chick.

However, in this case It is possible she could be telling the truth at some point. Unfortunately credibility is not possible at this point in time. So you will never know what the truth is to some extent.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:31 AM, Saturday, June 24th]

I second the suggestion to tell her your requirements for this marriage to continue is for her to write out a full timeline of ALL "incidents", being over-the-top specific about everything (who approached who, what she was thinking at the time, what she was feeling at the time, precisely what she did which each of the guys, etc.) and then, and this is critical, tell her that she will undergo a polygraph to confirm everything she’s written in the timeline is not only accurate but doesn’t omit anything.

Her reaction to this requirement will be telling. If she gets angry and/or refuses, you have no choice but to believe there’s much more to the story she’s not revealing, and in that case the marriage is over. She SHOULD jump at the chance to prove her newfound honesty.

Assuming she consents to the poly, right before you go in to the examiner, tell her that she’s also going to be asked if she’s had any sexual contact whatsoever with anyone other than you from the moment you were exclusive. Tell her if she confesses NOW, prior to the exam, that you will take X weeks/months to process prior to making any final decisions. Tell her if she doesn’t confess now, but fails the poly, that the marriage is over.

Many have learned shocking truths in "parking lot confessions". And remember, your only shot at a successful R is to have the FULL TRUTH. I agree with your gut and everyone else here: it’s unlikely you have it all.

Good luck my friend.

[This message edited by gr8ful at 10:07 PM, Sunday, June 25th]