SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I noticed a lot of people here who have had more than one d day or their spouses had year long affairs with trickle truths, reconciling. But some of those people are also the first ones to recommend to others to leave as soon as possible.

Is there a reason for this?

I try to use this site for information and possible hope but it just makes me feel like no cheater can become a safe partner ever again. It makes me feel a lot worse about my situation.

It seems reconciliation is impossible according to 99% of the users here.

I think (for most people here) that recovering from infidelity is very similar to growing up: you give the healthy, proper advice--which often has nothing to do with the way you personally did it.

How can you not advise someone in the way that you honestly think is best? You have to. Your conscience compels you, regardless of your own mistakes. But just like teenagers, people will do what they will do and make their own mistakes. And that is fine. You need to do what you think is right because it is your own life, no one else's. I don't ever think people "have to" divorce like some say, but I do think many are in for a world of hurt by not divorcing. But I get it. People stay in all types of marriages and tolerate all types of situations, so none of us can really be sure of what the best trade offs are for someone else.

I will say though that most posters eventually come around to the common wisdom found here. I think the majority of members are right in their assessments far more than they are wrong, and lots of people stick around to say that. So the advice is not based on nothing.

But leaving right away...most don't do it. It isn't very practical for most as marriage is complicated on many levels. But when you spend a couple years with no improvement and do D, many people that I know only have one regret: I should have done it sooner. Hence the advice.

I don't think it's the website's job to give you hope if it means lying to you. Sorry. But you certainly should take what you need and leave the rest. I think it is perfectly fine to ignore advice that doesn't feel right to you. We all do it.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:03 AM, Thursday, August 10th]

R is really, really hard. My XWH wasn't able to do the work to be a safe partner.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to get valid statistics on the subject. Have you read the book Cheating in a Nutshell? It's written by advice columnists but I'd an overview of what they've received over many years.

Often, we see the behaviors of the WS and can discern when it's better to leave.

On Dday I didn't know about SI and desperately wanted R and for things to go back the way they were. My plan was to rug sweep and pick me dance my way through R. My WW kept jerking me around with TT, defensiveness and get over it. I googled about infidelity and found SI. I implemented a hard 180, found all missteps I had made and the power struggle ensued.

I finally had enough and told her I was going to D. She absolutely fell apart and begged for another chance. I told her I would not commit and any outcome but I would observe her actions. I didn't believe her or what I was seeing she did severe damage to trust and my self esteem.

I started noticing that I was seeing the old pre A W. My Dad got sick and came home on hospice. My W was so good to my Mom and Dad during that time, she was selfless, she spent all her time at their house helping them. I started to believe what I was seeing and she has been solid ever since. I give a lot of credit to my W for our success in R.

When I see a new BS arrive here willing to put up with lies and manipulation just to keep the family together, I tell my story and how that will not work for them. I don't advise the outcome just "don't do what I did".

Don't let the WS run the show, take control and get far away from infidelity.

[This message edited by Tanner at 4:30 AM, Thursday, August 10th]

I tend to believe that in our current society there are perceptions about things like affairs or addiction, but no true understanding of their nature.

Therefore, when you are thrust into a recovery you can’t fathom there is a road map to help you find your way out. The things that people suggest don’t seem to have anything to do with the problem at hand.

As a ws, I went to therapy, caught up in emotion and focused on trauma drama. The therapist wanted to talk about my family, asked me questions about things I struggle with in day to day life and how I cope. I couldn’t for the life of me figure out how this was going to fix the pain I was in or mend the marriage, or even if I wanted to mend the marriage.

So to be successful it’s less about reconciling the relationship, and more about reconciling yourself. The focus for a long time has to be on individual growth so you show up to the relationship differently.

So as a new ws you wonder why these are the topics you are faced with in therapy when you go home your bs wants to know how it went and thinks the counselor is trying to blame your affair on your childhood. When in reality the therapist is wanting to dig at where you formed your coping mechanisms, foundational beliefs, buried trauma, etc /‘so they can provide a road map of showing up some of those character defects.

Until we can truly believe the cheating is about the cheater, then you tend to focus on the relationship so much it gets killed in the process.

It’s tremendously hard to learn to love yourself and work on yourself, it takes way longer than one would imagine. And in the process sometimes the damage just continues to mount.

The truth is it’s hard work but not on the things that most people start out focusing on.

I think it’s possible to reconcile and be happy. But it does create a pragmatic view rather than the rose colored glass view one might have before infidelity. For us, we knew that was a change that doesn’t just apply to our relationship but every relationship moving forward.

I am happy we reconciled, and I am happy that I have grown tremendously. I don’t think you will find any of us are happy that our relationship failed due to the decision of the ws, or that it takes so long to build something new that you can’t help but notice the years, money, and energy wasted in the process.

Good question. Why do people jump to the D option so easily.

If you’ve been here long enough you can smell a rat from a mile away. You stop believing the cheater’s words and focus on their actions.

Sometimes you can tell when the R is not working b/c of a number of factors. You start to spot the "typical cheater behavior" in time to warn the BS about the red flags 🚩.

Having lived through a false reconciliation and dday2 I can often tell when R is not working based on the poster’s description of the cheater’s behavior.

If a cheater is caught (as an example) sending nude photos and swears up and down it won’t happen again, you want to believe them. You want to know that they realized how much this hurt their spouse/partner.

However it may not be long before the shady behavior starts again and the cheater is back to doing what they were doing before. Though trying to ensure they don’t get caught this time.

If someone is glued to their phone under these conditions, that’s a red flag for me. And those are the 🚩 experienced people here at SI can spot.

I think rather the recommendations are based on the experienced folks here, and what they see as ongoing cheating behaviors, lack of remorse, no self work being done by the WS to do the work.
If those things are happening then you cannot R in a meaningful way. You can rugsweep, and play happy family, but ultimately the WS HAS TO FIX THEIR BROKENNESS. Otherwise it will happen again.

As a someone who had a pretty successful R, I can tell you that my WH stumbled a lot at the outset. However when he understood I would tolerate nothing less than doing the hard work of R, which did involve me telling him I was done.

One thing you will see here often is the phrase "You have to be willing to lose the M to save the M" Which in the early days sounds scary as hell. But remember the M you had is dead and gone already. So demand nothing less than 150% effort from your WS, and tolerate nothing that is unacceptable to you. You will heal and be stronger after. And if they are truly committed to doing the work, they will be as well.

I think your very first line indicates a misunderstanding about what reconciling really is.

Yes, there are people here with partners with multiple d-days.
But reconciling is not simply moving on from the last affair and learning to live with a spouse that doesn’t change and is therefore statistically likely to have another affair.
That would be the same as thinking divorce is simply pretending to not be married but still have all the legal and social implications in place and living in the same residence.

Reconciling is when the WS acknowledges that the infidelity is totally on them, that the infidelity was a conscious decision and not a "mistake", that nothing their BS did "made" them have to have an affair and where the WS is willing to work on character and moral changes that should make them a safer and better person.
Reconciling is where we – the BS – acknowledge the pain and damage caused, but decide that if there is enough positive change we are willing to live with the knowledge the pain was caused by the person we chose to continue to love.

Reconciling is where we both decide to communicate what sort of marriage we want, our financial goals, family goals, professional goals, our emotional and physical needs… It’s where we allow healthy personal goal as well as healthy marital growth.

Now – other than the recover-from-being-stabbed-in-the-back – EVERYTHING you do in reconciliation could and should be done in a normal non-infidelity-affected marriage. That’s why a couple that decide to reconcile are committing to change, and ongoing change way past dealing with the infidelity. It’s a combination of allowing and expecting personal growth while still working actively at relationship growth.
In some ways it can be compared to realizing you are in terrible shape and committing to a strenuous exercise and nutrition regime. You might run ten miles every other day and go to the gym daily for a year to whip yourself into shape, but then maybe realize that a reasonably active lifestyle and a once-a-week five mile jog is enough to maintain your form. R is similar in that once you reach your relationship goal you need to maintain it, but maybe not with the same ferocity and focus as earlier.

The type of R I think YOU are referring to… that’s where the BS remains in the relationship with maybe the only concession being that the particular infidelity that was discovered is over. The truth to the level needed, the commitment to change… that’s all missing or lacking. You might even go to MC to "fix" what was wrong in the marriage that made the WS have to cheat…
I actually think this form of "R" is extremely common. Sometimes it’s hidden behind a quasi-divorce where the betrayed spouse claims that they WOULD divorce if it wasn’t for the kids, or finances or society or whatever. They hang on to an excuse for inaction, even way beyond when that excuse isn’t really relevant. Like the kids eventually leave the home, yet still you remain focused on maintaining a relationship that is based on eventually divorcing – only you don’t know when.
A remarkable number of posters in the above situation tend to be firm hard-liners in the divorce-at-all-cost. Possibly to prevent others from living the misery they have selected to remain in. As my favorite quote goes:
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Thank you everyone for your responses. It has helped me understand things a bit better. I have learned a lot from this site and the many contributors.

And my question was more just the initial reactions to all the Just Found Out threads. I try to avoid that area since it is very triggering.

I have had two WH's. My first was the type that reconciliation was impossible. I recognize, that story of mine would have been one everyone would say to run from. So I think I understand the differences. I guess it was making me sad last night that divorce seems inevitable for 90% of these stories (and not just sad for myself, sad for everyone that finds themselves here).

I think since I am in a vulnerable state at the moment, I will stick with this forum and a few others.

All good advice above so I only will add - Infidelity is scary common so chances are you encounter married couples every single day that have had their world shattered. You might be surprised at how many rebuilt it and just say nothing to the outside world. We only tend to hear about ones who fail.

Our first goal is the get out of infidelity and start the healing, where it goes from there depends on a lot of factors.

There was new member that came through a year or so ago. He caught his WW cheating with a married man.

Step one tell OBS. He pushed back and said that would kill his M. No she killed the M. He just didn’t have it in him to rock the boat. He started getting defensive telling us he just wanted a path to R. He couldn’t grasp that any outcome required conflict.

I started messaging privately with him because he felt picked on. I helped him make sense of the advice because it seems counter productive but absolutely works to get out of infidelity hell.

His last message to me was that for the sake of the kids he’s going to stay in the M and let her have the A as long as she keeps it hidden from him. He believes enough pick me dance will bring her to her senses.

So he didn’t take any advice here and probably considers himself in R. I log on every day hoping he returns, not to tell him "I told you so" but for him to finally stand up for himself and start the healing process.

This was a great question and topic.

Humans can be very predictable creatures, especially when you give them the chance to show you who they really are. Most newly betrayed spouses are so... hmmm... unhinged, it's damned near impossible to see straight, let alone make rational choices. When these poor folks arrive here and start posting, veterans tend to see the predictable patterns before getting into any situations or circumstances unique to a member.

I honestly believe that most veterans stick around to help others find their own way forward, be it divorce or reconciliation. Sometimes, you know, a member's story will include enough red flags that the best advice we might have is: "RUN!"

I'm a WS, 7 years into R. At this point in time our relationship is in a much better place, however I can assure you that I was NOT a good candidate for R for the first several years. To be honest, while I'm certainly glad my wife stayed with me in the end, she probably shouldn't have. It took me several years to even begin to understand and own my actions, and in those years, I just continued to traumatize her over and over again due to my inability to see past myself and my own needs. R is a huge commitment, maybe even moreso than marriage itself. At least with marriage, you have a sense of love and trust and shared goals as you go into the commitment. With R, you have the exact opposite... lack of love, lack of commitment, and no idea whatsoever if you actually have shared goals or not. You have to go in prepared for that, and you have to go in understanding that the odds are against you. Most people don't make it.

The other "tough to swallow" thing about R is that both spouses have to work at it. We talk all the time about WS's not being good candidates for R, but in truth, the BS also has work to do. It's tempting to think that the WS did all the damage, they should do all the repair work too, but it just doesn't work that way. That's like being hit by a car and wondering why you have to go to physical therapy when you weren't the one that caused the accident? It doesn't matter. You still have to recover on your own from getting hit by car, and you have to do the same with infidelity. It's not fair, it's not right, and it sucks beyond words, however it's truth. Doing all that, while also waiting for your WS to do the same, is difficult at best, and a gamble.

Now to be fair, there ARE several couples on SI that are in R successfully (whatever that really means) and have managed to build something new together. It will never be what it was, but that doesn't mean something new can't be created. We have much better communication between each other now. We deal in reality. Marriage is no longer an expectation, it's work, it is something we have to recommit to daily, and you'd be surprised what a difference that makes. We're a little bent and cracked to be sure, but at the same time, we share a common story, a common history, common trauma and common recovery efforts. That's something to be proud of, even if the catalyst for this new paradigm is a shit show of epic proportions.

Consider it in context. How many marriages fail, even when infidelity is not a factor? How many people start a diet and end up heavier? How many people quit smoking just to start up again? How many alcoholics relapse? There are lots of things in life where the odds are against your success, and anyone going into these should be aware of the failure rates, and why. For most people, infidelity is a deal breaker, period. You could both go the therapy for the rest of your lives and become amazing people, it might not matter. If you can determine that up front, then do so.

I hope you find the answers and inspiration you are looking for. SI is one of the few support sites that DOES have several examples of R, and where you can get advice and support no matter which path you choose (or even if you choose to make no choice at all at this time). That's pretty special. That's why I'm still here, I owe so many others for the help and support. Hopefully it will be right for you as well.

I'm a BS in rugsweeping rather that reconciliation. I stay in the marriage because as far as I know he hasn't done anything egregious in the last 4 years and I don't want to split everything I worked for in half and have to pay that lazy mofo alimony! When he's not being a lazy, drunk, twatwaffle, we get along really well. I consider him a very good FWB at this point.

I think about the affair(s) every single day.

I am heavily on the Divorce first, mayyyyybe reconcile later boat.

The reason:

I will say with 99.9999% confidence that there is not a single BS on this forum that had only a single DDay - unless they immediately left their WS.

NOT ONE.

So, seeing as I'm a fairly kind and empathetic person, I will always recommend a person avoid any actions that cause them needless suffering.

Every day, there's a member who joined SI 2, 5, 10 years ago, and comes back for DDay nth.

I stick around because I got a lot of help healing from SI, and I'd like to give back. And I'm arrogant/confident enough to think that I can.

My aim is to help people heal. For some, that's R. For others, it's D. For still others, it's something else.

But like the SIers who responded above, I can see patterns in what people say. I can ask about the anomalies I see - but I also know that an SIer can post only the top of their mind; they can post only a small part of what they think, feel, and perceive. We can respond only to what an SIer posts, and that's only a small part of the story.

But it's natural for human beings to jump to conclusions....

There are other factors, though. Some people have tried R and ended up suffering further hurts. A portion of those project their experience onto others.

A portion of people for whom R didn't work assume that they should have done the opposite of what they did, and they think D is the olny alternative to R. In fact, however, there are many options open to a couple besides the 2 most obvious - there's a wide spectrum between and outside D & R, but some SIers don't accept or realize that.

A BS needs to do a lot of work to heal, as DaddyDom and hikingout have said. BSes, IMO, have to process anger, grief, fear, and shame out of their bodies - but they also have to process the feelings that are triggered by the infidelity-related pain. If they don't do that processing, they won't heal.

Some members need a few years to realize that they just don't want to live the rest of their lives with their WSes or that they remain turned off by their WSes.

Some members look to me like they're stuck in their pain, lash out at all WSes, so they counsel D.

*****

The most meaningful thing that was said to me after while I was deciding between D & R was, in brief:

R requires 3 healings.
BS heals BS.
WS heals WS.
They both work together to heal the M.

*****

The M is never the same after an A, true. It's also true that Ms - all Ms - change over time.

For the last several years, my W's A is one of a few traumas I've experienced in life, but not the worst. I remember the A and it's aftermath. One trauma was so painful I still recall at remembering it; it predated the A by 3 years.

*****

My recos when reading posts:

1) Check out how long someone has been dealing with infidelity - start dates and posts and sometimes peoples' profiles provide that info. People who started about when you did can give guidance about what they're feeling now. People who started a year or 2 before you did can offer feedback on hoe their process proceeded.

2) Checkout what people say. Click on 'Recent Posts' in the profile. You'll see some people counsel one outcome in post after post. Others seem to counsel questioners to figure out what the questioner wants and can do, irrespective of outcome.

3) Some posters say, 'Do this!' Others say, 'I see this, and draw these conclusions' without counseling one outcome or another. I think one approach is more valuable to new BSes than the other - but each new BS has to make their own choice.

*****

** Not posting as staff **

I will say with 99.9999% confidence that there is not a single BS on this forum that had only a single DDay - unless they immediately left their WS.... Every day, there's a member who joined SI 2, 5, 10 years ago, and comes back for DDay nth.

Huh? You aren't reading the posts - you're just looking at them and seeing what you want to see. Of course you're 'trapped' - you've told us clearly that you've trapped yourself.

You say you've stayed M for financial reasons more than any others. If your WS is really a parasite, you may be better off financially paying support than actually supporting him. Every year you stay in your M, you add to the alimony you'd owe. And what happens if your H finds someone he falls in love with and sues you for D? Just think of what you'd save on medical insurance.

I urge you to rethink. D may be worse than staying M ... but it might be way better.

Greto, I would like you to look at this:

I'm a WS, 7 years into R. At this point in time our relationship is in a much better place, however I can assure you that I was NOT a good candidate for R for the first several years. To be honest, while I'm certainly glad my wife stayed with me in the end, she probably shouldn't have.

DaddyDom is a highly respected member here. His advice is often gold, and often times right when the person needs to hear it.

His road was long, and there were never any guarantees along the way. Do you think that the advice to his wife at the 1 year, 2 year, even 3 year mark should have been to stick it out longer, and maybe he will change his ways? Here is someone, who was on the other side of the betrayal, telling you that the 'rational' advice would have been to divorce.

But his wife did not, and they both appear to be happy that she stayed. Everybody's path is unique.

But that doesn't mean that the advice to divorce was wrong. To see someone suffering, and their partner not making huge efforts to right their wrongs, is what we are trying to help the betrayed avoid. I'd be willing to bet that 90+ percent of the newly betrayed that come here don't want to divorce. And they surely don't want to hear that exact advice given to them by anyone---friends, family, or internet strangers. This site was founded by a BS/WS couple who reconciled, so obviously divorce is not 'always' the answer.

But I believe that it should always be on the table. I do believe that getting oneself out of infidelity is normally through reconciliation or divorce. There is a lot of gray in the middle, but I would call that more like 'tolerating' infidelity, and not the end goal that most seek.

I didn't experience trickle truth or multiple DDays, but I absolutely 100% believe that someone who is dealing with those factors, or who has a WS who won't give up their AP or won't do the work required to R, should take steps to leave, even if they ultimately want to R. Tolerating that behavior prolongs the pain for the BS, and some WSs need to feel the consequences of their choices in order to wake the hell up.

I had one DDay for multiple As. WH was not willing to end the current A. I initially was going to allow my WH to remain in the home to coparent. I hadn't found SI yet, but somehow I knew that it would be too painful to have him near me while he was still carrying on with her, so I asked him to leave. He moved in with his mom and was on the fence until 3-4 weeks later, when he ended the A and we began R.

A BS who won't tolerate mistreatment from a WS is always going to come out ahead emotionally, whether they D or they R. Practical concerns sometimes stymie a BS, which is totally understandable, but those who don't let emotions rule their choices fare better in the long run.

The reason that separation and divorce is often the best answer in cases of infidelity is that if the WS had the humility, accountability, empathy, patience, and fortitude necessary in order to help the BS heal and build a new marriage, they probably wouldn’t have cheated in the first place.

I’m probably one of those surly types you’re thinking of in JFO who have had multiple Ddays. I know the pattern and I know how the story will go because I lived it and I want to give advice that will spare new BSs as much pain as possible. I also think that if I had moved out or filed after Dday 1, I might’ve had a chance to reconcile because my husband wouldn’t have lost what little respect he had left for me. At the very least, I would’ve wasted only 5 years with a remorseless and selfish cheater instead of 7.

you give the healthy, proper advice--which often has nothing to do with the way you personally did it.

This. I didn't leave when I found out. I should have, even though WH and I have reconciled our friendship and he has worked on himself quite a bit. I eventually moved away, but not for a long time.

I also came to the site several months after d-day 1 had occurred so I had already made classically bad decisions on how to proceed by the time I got here, and I lurked for a few months more before I posted. My experience comes, in part, due to some of the bad moves I made in the 6 months before I used this site.

I also know, from experience, that after d-day 1 (and certainly after d-day 2) my WH and I had some UGLY days/nights and the tension in our house was palpable - sometimes almost unbearable. If I had children I would like to think I would have gotten them out of there (I don't). Part of my standard advice is for people with kids to separate and work on things from some distance FOR their kids sake - my parents did this and it was a blessing for us in hindsight. My advice is different (sometimes) if someone is childless or has grown children - stay and have the blowouts at your own peril.

But basically the first quote summarizes my advice versus my reality (and why I often end with "I know this is easier said than done...")

OK for the record: Many WSs go on to become safe partners.

Reconciliation is very possible....with the WSs who have become, or are becoming, safe partners. We have fine examples here in this thread. Listen to them.

WSs who have, or are in the process of real change, have a look. Those that don't also have a look. Spend a few years here and yes, you start to recognize it. But when you're a new BS, it's often very hard to see clearly through all that pain.

My only consistent advice for the struggling BS (the primary posters here) is that IC is vital. IC might change your WS, which would be swell, but it can definitely change your life, whether or not your WS changes. It can help you make decisions that lead to the life you want. It's the only thing you will ever have control over.

That's my only consistent truth, one I live by, so I continue to share it.