SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Edit been with wife for 13 years married 11 with 2 kids 10 and 8

So long story not been feeling that close to wife for a while. A colleague at work mentioned a few times a friend of his and that he was friends with my wife. I know who this guy is and aware my wife Swaps holiday ideas and he is married with kids. So my gut was telling me something wasn't right and I checked her phone. On insta dm there were alot of messages between both my wife and this "friend" most was about holidays and activities both had been on with our respective families. Anyway the last messages are my wife telling him that she has 2 nights overnight at a hotel with work. His response is that's a shame as he is away those days however if he had been at work he could have got held on and visited her hotel room. My wife replies "aw well" and then said there is no point telling him where she was staying as he can't come. He replies "calm down you seem so frustrated" and she replies just kidding. Then wife goes on yo tell him she might get a hotel when delivering a project elsewhere in country and he replies "don't mind a bit of travelling if you told me what you had in mind" she again replies "no point now...you can't blooming come" it goes on to mention she thinks it will be a hotel that she has stayed at previously when he was also at a work event and he replies "would of had a good night that night too" and she replies "lol if only I knew" he says "yip had that big bed and room all to myself" and she replies "waste"

That is the end of their conversations and I discovered this 2 weeks ago. I sat down and talked to her about it and she initially didn't admit to messaging until I told her I had read them. She then described it as "bravado" and that nothing has or was going to happen she loves our family and wants to stay together. I told her how shattered I am and hurt and she did seem genuinely sorry about it. I asked her to block and never have contact with him again on social media and she has done that and not sent him any message as to why as she said that I told her I didn't want her to have any contact with him.

My problem is I cannot stop thinking about it and that she has more nights away delivering a new project at work and I cant take the worry that something might happen. I know I should trust her but that feels broken.

I have thought about what I want to do and thinking about contacting him directly to speak to him about this as it seems he was the one driving the conversation down a meeting route and also thinking about contacting his wife to make her aware of it all.

I need help with what to do.

[This message edited by Jjr31 at 9:56 AM, Thursday, September 7th]

Hi, welcome to SI. So sorry you are now a member of the best club no one wants to join.

Your wife is currently having at minimum an emotional affair.

If she works with this guy, she must cut all contact with him now AND find another job. Her actions have consequences.

Do you have copies of their conversation? Informing his wife will shine a second light on this emotional affair, affairs usually die out when exposed. Do not tell your wife you are doing this, she and this other man will make you look like a crazy jealous husband.

I know I should trust her but that feels broken.

Currently, she cannot be trusted.

Ask your wife to write a timeline of the affair, every little detail about how it started.

Understand your wife would have slept with him if the opportunity arose. Her discussions were not "bravado" they were straight to the path of his hotel room.

My husband had an affair with a colleague who worked at a site 3,000 miles across the country. I insisted he find another job, he never went back to her site until he found one, his affair ended his great 25-year career with the same company.

Your wife cannot have contact with this guy ever again. No talking, emails, texts, social media, nothing.

She needs to be an open book giving you access to voicemails, emails, social media.

I'd also insist she puts her travel on hold for the time being. My husband traveled for work every other week, when I found out about the affair, his travel came to a screeching halt. You understand if she and he are traveling together, it is likely they end up in the same hotel room. That's why you must inform his wife so a second set of eyes will be on the two of them.

[This message edited by annb at 11:31 AM, Thursday, September 7th]

I know I should trust her but that feels broken.

She has broken your trust and it’s on her to rebuild it. She doesn’t get to operate on faith right now, probably not for years.

If she continues to travel tell her to come up with rules that will make you feel safe. Should include things like sharing her itinerary, checking in with you often, leaving FaceTime on all night once she gets back to her room. If she calls you controlling she’s not a good candidate for reconciliation.

Check out the healing library here. Also buy How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair and Not Just Friends. They should be read by both of you.

Also don’t bother contacting the other man, contact his betrayed wife.

Of course you're hurt and trust is shattered. My strongest recommendation is do not rugsweep this. If you do, it will come back to bite.

Agree with comments above about dont contact him, contact his wife. Also agree with the book suggestions from ASC 1226. If you have caught her early in the affair process then Not Just Friends may be particularly helpful.

The text banter is hard to interpret. It mostly does sound like it was bravado, which points to the idea that she may be telling you the truth. However, perhaps only 1/10 WS tell the truth when initially confronted. This may be odd but the phrase 'calm down, you seem frustrated' is sticking out to me. As if they may have discussed this before? I dont know.

The timeline may help as well as digging into phone records and credit card bills. Look for anything unusual. You could also place a VAR in her car to see what she is discussing when alone.

You want the instant pull-the-bandage off path to resolution?

You mention the OM is married. Well… Contact his wife and say something like:

Hey – look… it might be nothing but… I found these conversations in my wife’s phone and I’m not at ease about them. My wife says it’s innocent banter, and it’s probable and possible that it’s true. We don’t have to assume the worst. But I do think you should be aware of this because personally I think that even if only banter then it’s inappropriate. Hopefully we can stop it before it gets any worse.

In the above you are NOT stating its an affair, you are NOT saying they are cheating (as most define that word) but rather that you are concerned. If it’s really "nothing" then both your wife and OM might be a bit bothered about how you overreact, but if there is more going on you can expect an explosion.

Other than that… Get the go-to book for emotional affairs: Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. You and your wife will be hard pressed to find a better guide to better understand what’s going on.

I’m sorry you had to find this group but you will get good advice.

I hate to say this but you now have NO reason to trust your spouse. In my opinion you caught her before they could physically get together. If you had not read the messages I believe she would have physically cheated.

But at this point it doesn’t matter. She lied and cheated during her emotional affair. You are in the same situation as if she physically cheated.

Your wife needs to get counseling to understand why she did this.

I suggest you get your own counseling to get support for yourself as you navigate this situation. I can tell you my H had a 4 year emotional affair (years before texting and cell phones etc). Emotional affairs are just as bad as physical affairs.

Do not let your wife sweep this under the rug. She may believe "nothing happened" and it’s just time to move on. That is a mistake.

Because that is what my H did and lo and behold 15 years later he had a second affair. It started as an EA and very quickly affair #2 was leading to a Divorce.

I’d suggest your wife needs to stay off all social media and apps and texting with others. Just my opinion but she is not trustworthy at this time and every time she picks up the phone to text, it’s going to trigger you.

Keep posting here to get support and a fresh perspective.

I have been lied to many times and over a long period of digging I got what they call trickle truth (TT). I hate to be the downer here but I wouldn't rule out them having had sex before and were looking to hook up again, Their banter seemed like they were very comfortable and familiar with each other and the friend that just happen to tell you about his friends relationship with your wife was perhaps him trying to give you a heads up I mean what did his friend share with him to make him mention it??? Maybe you can talk to your friend again and do some digging, credit card bills ,phone records,emails etc. Believe nothing unless it's confirmed. I would mention a polygraph to your wife after putting a VAR in her car as well. Best of luck and sorry you're dealing with this.

Just be aware it's typically worse than you thought.

Anyway the last messages are my wife telling him that she has 2 nights overnight at a hotel with work.

Since the last ones were the only incriminating ones, those are just the ones she forgot to delete. That discussion wasn't the first foray discussing meeting at a hotel. They are way too familiar. Too much for any decent chance this is just an EA.
Where does he live?
Where does he work?
How often does your wife travel for work?
Because with the discussion thread you saw, the only way they aren't in a full-blown PA is they hadn't managed to connect. I suspect that your co-worker knows more. It's odd that he would even know your wife is friend of his friend if they were just casual acquaintances. Nevertheless, bring it up to you.
I'd suspect that she has not been totally NC. Don't you think he would attempt to connect through other channels once he noticed the block?

Find out his wife's contact info. Let her know what you've found. It's going to take both of you being vigilant to keep them from just hiding their A better. It's also a test of whether your wife is really NC. If she finds out you did it, that means she is still in communication with him. Don't bother with the AP. He has no reason to be truthful. He's either going to lie that it was nothing to keep his family intact or lie that it was worse than it was to make her more availabile to him.

My problem is I cannot stop thinking about it and that she has more nights away delivering a new project at work and I cant take the worry that something might happen. I know I should trust her but that feels broken.

You shouldn't trust her. There is a common pattern here. Once caught they swear it wasn't what it was. Often they never really go NC, just hide it better. They don't go from talking about sharing beds to nothing cold turkey.

Tbh, it doesn't look good. They have a very playful way to talk to each other which is kind of really 'close'. She tried to trickle truth you until you mentioned that you knew, that's not a good sign in fact it's trust shattering. She even belittles it as 'bravado', does she only mean him or does she include herself? It's a tricky situation now, you caught her in a very inappropriate way but you also revealed your hand, never do this.

Contact the other man's wife, without question.

@Bigger had the best potential message.

There is no reason to trust your wife. Remember, she denied any wrong doing until you told her that you read the messages. I assume she has only admitted to what you already know. This is standard procedure for cheaters. These conversations do not happen out of the blue. There could well be much more that you don't know about. She went out of her way to tell him when she would be available. Contact his wife right now. Tell her what you found and ask her to stay in touch so you can compare notes. Now that you tipped your hand, she may stop or she may just hide it better. Tell her to write out a timeline of her inappropriate behavior. Ask her if they have ever been at the same place when she was travelling. Ask her if there has ever been any kissing or inappropriate touching, including a pat on the bottom. Tell her that, with good reason, you are very uncomfortable with her traveling. Tell her that words will not do and she has to come up with a plan to help you feel safe in the relationship.

She didn’t admit to anything until you tipped your hand and told her you already read the messages. That’s right out of the cheater’s playbook. Then, realizing she’s been caught red handed, she gaslights you and tried to downplay it as "bravado". Friend. Your WW and OM had every intention of meeting up to have sex. They may have already done so. Fastest way to kill an affair? TELL HIS WIFE! Be honest - tell her that you found messages between her husband and your wife that were very inappropriate. And SHARE those messages. The goal here is to get you OUT of infidelity. EA’s like this - heavy flirting, sexual innuendo, flattery - are devastating and yes, this IS infidelity, this IS cheating. You are not obligated to protect your wife and OM’s secrets.
Good luck to you. This is a shitty situation. I know. This is how my WH started his PA back in 2012. And 8 months ago I found flirty messages just like this between him and a family friend. A woman he’s known since childhood. We live in different states so I definitely know there was no hook up - but I have no guarantees that it wouldn’t have happened if we lived closer. I did what I needed to to do to completely kill this affair - I shined the biggest spotlight on this EA by outing my WH and this OW to the entire family, her pastor, our children, mutual friends. She was not married so there was no OBS. Ironically she was a betrayed spouse for years and years. I wasn’t going to be the keeper of secrets for ANYONE. Not my shame to bear. We are no longer friends to her or her family. Oh well. Those are the consequences!
I wish you well and hope that you can move forward. You’ve received lots of good advice here. Good luck to you!

BB

That’s a big jump from talking about family holiday ideas to the sexually charged repartee.

You’re obviously missing everything in between.

Don’t let her minimize this. This is very serious. She needs to go NC and do whatever is necessary to make you feel safe with work trips away.

I agree with Bigger’s and others advise above.

She needs newly installed, tightened boundaries until you feel comfortable relaxing them. She needs to provide you with full transparency and full disclosure including a written out timeline of how this relationship evolved and why. She needs to read the above suggested books and go to IC and follow up with MC. IC to get to the fundamental issues that predisposed her to go down this slippery slope.

Don’t rug sweep any of this. Process this event methodically and thoroughly or it will repeat itself in some not too distant future when you let your guard down. Any unresolved waywardness will lay dormant ready to strike again when contributing factors come into perfect alignment.

I am dealing with something quite similar. I caught it at an earlier stage but it doesn’t diminish how I felt. This and an overall pattern of being disrespected by WW for a long time.

The first thing I tried to do was establish what actually had happened because I had no trust in my WW. I made her take a polygraph which are not common in the country I live in. This also demonstrated to her that even if "nothing happened" as she claimed, her actions and disrespect had some consequences for her and I saw her actions as being far worse than she initially did. I also consulted my lawyer and told my WW. (My lawyer happens to be the foremost D lawyer in our country). I left home and went overseas for a brief period to try to clarify my thoughts and to send a signal that I had no tolerance for this sort of behaviour. In the process and saga of doing all this I established that nothing more had happened with the person concerned but I also found out more from the past so the process had some real value for me. You might want to consider the same if you are unsure if your WW is telling the truth. Because you need to know with some confidence what has happened to be able to decide what to do and to deal with the imagination. Or at least that was my thinking.

I'd like to add to those recommending the polygraph and telling his spouse. You may very well have caught her "before" anything happened, but you can't assume that. Even if you want to, the doubt will haunt you for years. Tell her to recover all deleted texts on her phone in your presence and show them to you right away. Then schedule a poly. If she is genuine in what she tells you, outside of her initial recoil of you asking for proof, then she should be able and willing to do that to begin to make amends.
Hopefully you kept a copy of the messages you saw, because that will help you when you inform the OBS.
Stay strong.

IMO - you don't need a polygraph, you do need to tell the other betrayed spouse. Either it will get 100% blown up and you won't have to worry about any ongoing A or contact with that person anymore, or it will go where it was going anyway. But, neither the polygraph nor the telling the OBS will get to the issue that remains - the big one - why was your WS doing this to begin with. Please don't rugsweep this issue as it will likely rear its ugly head again later. Ask me how I know (sadly It seems I can say this in just about every situation - I am a wealth of "don't do what I did" info).

First expose this to OM's wife. If the roles were reversed, you of course would be devastated, but you'd appreciate being told the truth.

Second, what does your wife plan to do to show you she is conducting an A or even a ONS while on these trips?

She has broken your trust and she can't be taken at face value anymore. Sadly, everything if not corroborated with another source will create doubt in your mind.

I think you need to be clear that this type of behavior is unacceptable if ahe wants to stay your wife.

Ask her she would feel if she read the same kind of messages on your phone with another woman.

I think a timeline backed up with matching phone records are a start. She got caught and now she will pretend to be good until you let your guard down.

Business trips need to be re-evaluated as part of her job if she is going to use that as an alibi to have sex with other people. Again, ask her to put herself in your position.

Bravado is a really weak and doesn't really tell you that she unserstands what she did is in fact qrong.

OR worse yet she knew it was wrong and decided to do it anyway. That one is worse and she needs to show you that she understands why she is broken and doesn't seem to have the integrity she expects you to demonstrate.

Honestly a poly is a good idea, STD tests and paternity tests on any kids you have together.

Mind you these are not punishments. These are you teying to figure out if she has lied further because she lost all credibility with you.

You are 100% in the right to expect additional assurances that make you feel safe.

As soon as it is clear she refuses any of tour requests then you should implement the 180 and start attorney shopping.

If that sounds serious. It is. Your W likely will hide behind any minization. The sad truth is that she lost your trust and needs to make some big steps to show you why you'd want to stay M'd to you.

Also get in to see an IC for yourself. You need an impartial party to talk to and help you figure out what you really want in the future.

I am so sorry you have learned of this.

I am going through the same thing. I found that reading the other JFO EA posts was very helpful in clarifying my mind and keeping me focused getting to the bottom of things. What the great people here taught me was that your prior assumptions about your M, your W and your entire situation are usually wrong. Under no circumstances take your WW’s words at face value. I initially did and through the relentless advice I was given I found that there was a lot of lying by omission and that she was guilty of more than she had initilaly admitted when I confronted her.

In the end I had her take a polygraph to establish a semblance of the truth. Her reaction to being caught was terrible. In my I initially found an EA and I was given the same speech as you but I found more and you need to dig. I am likely to D but have delayed the filing due to my children’s educational situation that I need to prioritise over my interests for one more school year. It’s been hard.

Sending you strength. Try to stay focused. It’s hard! Read the threads and listen to the wonderful advice you will receive. This will teach you how to handle yourself and teh steps you need to take and insist upon her taking.

Brother so sorry for where you are with this.

If you can did, dig and dig some more. I feel there is a lot more to their actions and words. She has gone from contact calls and texts to cold turkey no contact. Nah I don’t believe her.
Did you proof read any no contact letter or email prior to her stating she has gone no contact.

Have you informed the OBS?
They have a right to know.

One day at a time.