SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For those of you who don't know me (I'm not on here much anymore), D-day was slightly more than 7 years ago. We separated 5 years ago and after a long, nasty divorce... I've been divorced for almost 3 years. I have been re-married for a year (1st anniversary was yesterday).

I've been in therapy for most of that and I am still in therapy. I have issues that probably start with my narcissistic and abusive mother... and my ex who was constantly blaming me for everything wrong in her life (for example, I was the reason that she had a long-term affair).

Anyway, I am working through my issues and I am trying to get myself to a better place. The weird thing is that a lot of people have been telling me to forgive my ex as if that will solve my problems. Here is the thing, though: (1) I am certain that I have forgiven my ex for her infidelity. I am not angry about that at all. I haven't been angry about that for a long, long time (probably around the time we separated), and (2) I was definitely very angry at my ex for what she did during our divorce -- about 90% of everything that she said and did during our divorce was lying, cheating, or stealing.

I am now fairly confident that I am no longer angry at her for what she did during our divorce. It cost me a lot of money as far as legal/lawyer costs, but that's not something that I think about at all. I am still paying a good deal of child support (but no alimony), which doesn't really bother me because I would be spending that money on my children anyway. I miss my children, of course, but I have really good relationships with two of them... although my relationship with the third could be improved.

All of that is background to give you an idea of my mental state. Meaning, in the spirit of "know thyself"... that's what I think of me, right now.

But here is my problem... My ex clearly lived a double life. She had her normal/boring/house/white-picket-fence life with me and then her weird, behind-closed-doors sex life that she kept hidden from me for more than 10 years (I don't know how much she cheated, but I now think that the cheating was throughout our relationship... literally from the beginning of us dating). So, when I think of the ~15 years that we were together, I really struggle to look back fondly on even the good times that we had because I know that they were fake. I am even capable of cutting her out of happy FAMILY memories, like I can enjoy the family trip to Disney that we once took as far as the memories of what I did with my children; I mentally cut her out of those memories analogous to the way that you can cut someone out of a photo using scissors (or AI, if all of your photos are digital).

I feel like I could be happier if I could look back and at least enjoy the memories that I had when I was with her. But, I can't look back at those... because she was pretending to be happy with me (or something like that).

How do you all deal with the memories of your ex? Do you look back fondly or not at all? Do you look back at it as a lesson learned?

I'm just struggling with a 15-year black hole in my memory that I'd like to reconcile. It really sucks to have 15 years of bad memories... I'd like to have those back or at least let them go without pretending to have amnesia.

Any thoughts or personal anecdotes that y'all can share to help me out? Thank you in advance.

Hey Barcher, like you, every memory in my marriage and relationship is tainted, as my ex was cheating the entire time as well. We did a lot of traveling during our marriage. I didn’t even realize I mentally do this until you asked about it with this post; but when I look back on, say our snowmobile trip through Yellowstone, 20 years ago… I don’t even see EXWH in my memories. I see the mountains, and the snow, and the trees, and the bison.. I can feel the wind blowing in my face, feel the warmth of the steam coming out of the ground… but I really don’t remember EXWH being there at all. I know he was, but that is not foremost in my memories. I am able to appreciate the beauty that I experienced. Just me. Without him. That said, to be honest, I don’t look back all that much. I will never have all the details or even be able to scratch the surface of the lies. So it’s easier just not to look back. I have vague memories of what I thought it was a happy time, and I don’t delve much deeper than that. I don’t look at old photographs either. For me, that’s risking going down the rabbit hole of anger as he is in so many photos.

You did experience happy memories. So did your kids. What your ex was doing behind the scenes does not negate that. I know that knowledge doesn’t fix everything inside your head, but I hope it can eventually help.

As my divorce neared an end, I became obsessed with traveling alone, or with a friend, in order to build fresh new memories. Memories where no one was mentally surgically removed. Things I did literally just for me. It doesn’t even have to be a big vacation. Do little things around town. I did so much healing this way.

We can’t erase what they did. The scars in me will always remain; I know that. Like an aching old injury, I just try not to aggravate it too much.

Count me in as another who had a fake M with xWS. I believe he too cheated throughout our whole time together. I had red flags early on including a woman who called for him 1 year into our relationship

How do you all deal with the memories of your ex? Do you look back fondly or not at all? Do you look back at it as a lesson learned?

I don't deal with the memories of my ex. When I look at old photos I cringe knowing he was living a double life and appearing as a family man.I don't have fond memories because what would have been a fond memory was tainted by his double life. I have many fond memories with my kids. Luckily it was mostly me and the kids while they were growing up anyways. I felt like a single mom the entire time.

Oh it's definitely a lesson learned especially why I would have rationalized any of it and stayed as long as I did. It's a lesson that I needed though in putting myself first and making my mental and physical health a top priority. If I had not had this lesson I would still be co-dependent and not taking care of me.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 7:26 PM, Monday, December 4th]

We can’t erase what they did. The scars in me will always remain; I know that. Like an aching old injury, I just try not to aggravate it too much.

I don't mind looking at my actual (physical) scars. They aren't exactly bad memories, usually they are funny stories.

Using your physical injury analogy, though, I've gotten injured a few times where I knew that it was bad but I was afraid to look to see how bad. Like one time, I was wearing flip-flops and they slipped off and I cut my foot very very badly. Apparently, you could see the bone underneath -- I never looked until after it was stitched up.

Maybe I just need to be more brave. Look back even though I know that it's brutal/horrible/gory and just get over it.

Thank you for the input Bleep; it's appreciated.

Count me in as another who had a fake M with xWS.

Thank you, CBS. I knew that I wasn't the only like me, which is why I asked here. This has been bothering me since my therapy appointment last week (I only see my therapist once a month these days).

If I had not had this lesson I would still be co-dependent and not taking care of me.

I'm more into acceptance of who I am rather than trying to "fix" who I am. Meaning, I'm still co-dependent as hell. I have learned, however, to be MUCH MUCH more careful about people who take advantage of my co-dependency (so, better boundaries). Kind of like an alcoholic... I'll always be an alcoholic, even if I am not drinking.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 7:40 PM, Monday, December 4th]

Yeah, i find myself verbally editing my EXWW out of my stories, as if she wasn't present. I guess it's just a coping mechanism.

barcher - I don't have good answers for you as I'm in the same boat. Just wanted you to know that I hear you, share your confusion about how to reflect back on the memories, how to make sense of them, and to feel really in the dark about what the truth is. I suspect at some point, we will have to learn to let that all go - we will probably never get the whole truth and memories will likely be tainted with a whole lot of unknowns. Sending good vibes your way as you find your way through this dilemma.

"Count me in as another who had a fake M with xWS. I believe he too cheated throughout our whole time together. I had red flags early on"

Me too

Active cheaters lie. It’s just who they are.

I have posted about this elsewhere but I am replacing aweful exwh memories with peaceful
good ones. That seems to help some. I also want to do more emdr and possibly an exorcism (sarcasm here). But I am getting rid of every thing I can that he touched.

Thank you everyone. I wish that I was alone with this problem, but I am still happy to have your company.

Maybe I just need time?

I think you might need time and more processing. My XWH is a covert narc, so I will probably never know the truth about our M because he lied about who he was from the very beginning. I sat with my memories and thought through them for awhile. When we did this, was he happy? I don't know. I definitely knew when he wasn't happy. Did he really like the beach or did he just go there with me because I made all of the arrangements? We were in Disney World when his AP first made phone contact. Not the happiest place on earth for me yet.

I went to the beach earlier this year and got to stay at a place that I've wanted to stay for the past 30-40 years. I was sad for a little bit because I'd always planned that I'd be there with XWH. Some of the restaurants I went to were some of our favorites, or at least he said at the time that it was a favorite. (He did take wifey #2 to the beach, so maybe he did like it.)

At first, I was mad because some of my favorite places were tainted with memories of XWH. But I told myself that I can't let him rob me of the joy from a place that I like so much and want to continue visiting. Before my vacation was over, I was able to look back on some of the memories as a sweet memory rather than one tainted by XWH being unfaithful. I still haven't put any pictures of us up on the walls in my new place, but maybe someday.

The theft of our narrative has been (and continues to be) one of the hardest pieces for me to deal with. There is a NYT article written by Anna Fels called Great Betrayals that summarizes it as well as a short article can.

I do believe more distance from your ex, more processing of those events you want the narrative for as well as filling your life with other stories is the only path out.

My XWH is a covert narc, so I will probably never know the truth about our M because he lied about who he was from the very beginning.

Covert narcs are the worst. They're as evil as overt narcs but most people think that they are nice, sweet, genuine people.

I think part of my problem (and I know that many of you had a similar experience) is that my marriage was actually pretty good until I caught her. We had a good partnership; we were good friends; and we were good to each other. If she had simply died on D-day, then I would like back fondly on our time together and I would simply cherish that time that we had together. It's just because all of the cheating and lying (key point: I'm pretty sure that she cheated on me throughout our relationship... I have strong suspicions of a lot of infidelity beyond what she confessed to... the actual confessions spanned 2008-2016) that I now realize that she was living a double life and our marriage/relationship was not real.

Maybe I need to stop trying to look back at those time fondly and just look back at them as bad memories... meaning, look back and view them for what they literally are/were.... I was living a good life with someone who was completely dishonest.

This is one of the biggest pain points for me. The loss of the memories I had and the narrative I had of the past ten years of our marriage. My WH had one night stands and then an affair for the past ten years of our marriage. We are trying to reconcile. He’s doing all the right things. I feel like he’s stolen something profoundly important from me. My happy and peaceful memories.
I do best if I look back on those times for what they were to me at the time. Like you we had a generally happy marriage. I think he was genuinely happy with me. He just felt entitled to extra attention. I’m working through this in therapy too. Right now I think I have to grieve the loss and extract the happiness that was there. I’m also trying to live more in the now. Those years will not come back and I don’t want to let those years tarnish years have to come.

I understand more than I can express, Barcher and other fellow travelers. Sometimes it even feels strange to be part of a group that can relate so well…but still to have a HUGE component that makes the experience feel different, more isolating, than what others in the same boat feel - kinda like being the last car on the rollercoaster ride. I can’t say that it’s that much worse…but it does have some particularly challenging aspects.

I had two experiences through the D that really twisted this knife - one was finding a picture of him with his COW taken almost ten years after dday (all that time…all that time) and the other was learning he was engaged when he first asked me out. The whole thing just blew up, shattered into a thousand pieces, inverted, flipped upside down, turned into an acid trip. I don’t have any adequate descriptors. How could anybody do this?? Sickening. Are there really people out there this…well, evil??. Disturbing, horrifying - how did I not know?? I actually thought he was an exceptionally good person. And so did everybody else. So did everybody else.

I don’t know how you ever reconcile this. Truly, I don’t know if it’s possible. Forgiveness??? I don’t even know what that means in this context. (And maybe I’m just missing the same piece you are.🤷🏻‍♀️). What am I forgiving? That I never even knew who you were? That I still don’t?

And maybe that’s part of it. I wouldn’t be mad at a bear for mauling me…I wouldn’t be mad at the snake that bit me. That’s their nature. And I guess I see him in the same way. This is what he does. It’s what he has always done. And it’s what he will continue to do in the future.

So in that regard, my quibble is more with the universe. Why did I have this experience? Are we merely data points in all this that happen to intercept because some butterfly on another continent flapped its wings…or are our life events fated for some predetermined and cooperative event that will serve our further evolution? I don’t know…I don’t know that anybody knows…and I guess in that regard, we get to choose our own perspective.

So maybe they aren’t suppose to reconcile it - this experience during vs post. Because in a time space concept they DID each happen at different times, in different planes. That was real then, this is real now. Maybe that’s what we are meant to see. But we also lived in a very different reality than what we thought was reality - and that seems to be the most troubling aspect, like getting a photo back and seeing a dark demon in it standing beside you. That would be most unnerving in just that one context so it really puts perspective on it when suddenly all of your "photos" show that. Would a pair of scissors - literally or metaphorically - really seem like a viable resolve? Forgiveness??? - Yeah…not even close to understanding how that conceptually fits in this experience.

Sorry I’m not much help…it’s a struggle for me too. One that I’ve just grown tired in trying to mesh into some neat and concise cohabitation. I don’t like this thing…and I dont want it in my life. It came in on cat feet, bearing presents, and I nurtured it for years. Without knowing what it really was. But I’m not that person any more. And even when I’ve wanted to go back to being that person, I can’t. I’ve learned that too. This has changed me. And it has changed how I view so much of the world and this life experience. Sometimes I grieve that…sometimes I express gratitude. But I either agreed to this experience prior to birth - or nobody asked me. Either way, it is what it is.

"Covert narcs are the worst. They're as evil as overt narcs but most people think that they are nice, sweet, genuine people."

I have begun think of these types as two-face or wolves in sheep’s clothing….Very facile at deception. Dangerous as scorpions (there is a folk story about the frog and the scorpion someone told me after DD).

I think as far as my being codependent it is fine
for me to be interdependent with frogs (people with good hearts and good intentions). It’s just a problem for me when I have a scorpion on my back.

We have similar stories of being blindsided by who our wayward ex spouses really were in the shadows. It’s like thinking someone is a good hearted frog swimming along in the pond next to you and wham they sting you and you realize they are a scorpion. It has been challenging for me to reconcile.

I wish you much peace and healing.

Forgiveness??? I don’t even know what that means in this context.

I have forgiven my ex for her infidelity. I am not angry about that at all anymore.

This is perhaps weird (but y'all likely understand), I don't know if I was ever THAT ANGRY about the infidelity... I was more angry about the DISHONESTY... which never stopped.

Again, slightly weird, but I really gave up all of my anger towards her about the infidelity and the dishonesty when we (mostly her) decided to get divorced. I just let it go... in a not my monkey, not my circus kind of way. I was actually RELIEVED to get divorced. It was an end to my burden of trying to keep a marriage afloat all by myself.

My divorce was awful and it involved a lot of lying (which is not something that I handle well) and she put our kids in the middle, repeatedly. I was definitely angry at her for that. But, I am not any more.

As far as the present-day, I am not angry at her at all. I avoid her because it's better for me and for my kids. I occasionally have opinions about what she did, but I am detached... to the point, where it's like THIS SPORTS TEAM should have done THIS or THAT... five years ago.

The memories bit is still weird. I don't know

I'm on a journey to get better.... and by that, I mean BETTER. I'm unpacking a lot of stuff. My ex is just a small part of it... but these memory-holes are weird. I dunno.

(and SheHawk... it seems like you understand fully).

I too am startled by how many of us fit into this same mold. My STBXWW cheated at least 6 times, through long stretches of our M, enough that I can't possibly know when she was physically or emotionally cheating.

I am early in the process of D but prior to my most recent D Day, I'd spent a great deal of time recovering since 2016. So I know these memory holes well.

Barcher--do you really think you'd be happier if you could look back and "uncut" her out of your memories? You seem to be able to enjoy the good memories with your family even if she isn't present. Or do you specifically mean the memories of just you two?

While it has been a battle, I've had some success focusing on *my own perception* and experiences. I can look back and know, in the moment, I had happy times. They are now painted over with a veneer of sadness, but I still tell myself that in that precise moment, *I was happy.* Knowing what I know now does not change the moments that Past Me had.

I am also filled with sadness for her. I know that I was happy at times, and I know that deep down she was unhappy and had no peace, even when pretending. And she was a good pretender, as most of our exes were. But that is on them. Their lack of peace is their burden to bear, not ours. Rather than being angry at what she was doing in those moments, I instead have some measure of pity that she could not enjoy them the way I did. I had my self respect and got to enjoy myself. She had nothing but chaos and unrest in those moments, if you could peel back the facade.

I do understand the dishonesty as well... as we are progressing through D, I am also finding that the ways she is *currently* being dishonest may end up feeling much more damaging than the A's themselves. That'll take some time and years to get over.

Barcher--do you really think you'd be happier if you could look back and "uncut" her out of your memories?

I don't think happier is the right word.

I think that I would be healthier if I could look back and uncut her from my memories.

I am trying to calm the various triggers that I have. I think that I need to process and accept what my ex did during our marriage... not ignore what she said and did. And by "what she said and did" goes way way way beyond the infidelity. My ex (and her family) made a serious attempt to crush my soul throughout my relationship.