SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m not 100% sure what my title as Attache really allows me… At the time I was asked to join staff I voiced a concern over maybe not being as free to post my outspoken views and MH stuck the Attache moniker on me. I guess I’m sort of a SI James Bond – a secret and deniable agent in SI service with a license to kill…

Not that I’m going to kill anyone with this post. Maybe a bit more like twist a few arms and tweak a few ears… It’s definitely using the authority I think I have with my title, but at the same time this whole post is probably – like 007 actions – deniable to the Staff…

This is a site that is based on peer contributions…
The advice offered is only as good (or bad) as we are. Its often based on experience, and many of us have some expertise in some specific area, be that therapy, law, technology or whatever. I have received advice here on topics ranging from marriage-advice to car electronics…

However…
There is no obligation to post…
You are perfectly free to have a stance or view on any or all subjects and threads…
But ALWAYS post with the site guidelines in mind…

Upon entering this site you will find this text:

Surviving Infidelity is your safe place to come and share your pain and feeling of isolation upon discovery of betrayal. All who have been impacted by infidelity are welcome here, even the betraying partner, provided they are remorseful and committed to healing. Please use this site to network with others who are feeling a loss of hope and shattered dreams and trying to survive the most painful type of betrayal we all have unfortunately come to know.
We ask all members to please follow our code of showing respect, patience and compassion through this very difficult time you all are facing.

respect, patience and compassion…
Those are the key terms, and they are reflected in the relatively few guidelines contributors are asked to keep in mind.

There are plenty of threads – many of them pages long – that I don’t agree with, or think are going astray. If I think a contribution might change that I contribute, but once I realize my voice isn’t heard I chose to stay off that thread. I might still read it and feel frustrated about how the OP might be heading the wrong way IMHO, but I keep in mind that I don’t HAVE to post, least of all in anger or frustration.
There are also sometimes threads here – especially in JFO – that scream out fiction to me. But… Its not my place to call that out in that thread, as is outlined in the Guidelines. I keep in mind that I don’t HAVE to post, least of all in anger or frustration.

Then there are threads in specific forums. Like in Reconciliation the goal of the OP is to reconcile. Yes – sometimes a very clear and firm post might be required to let that person know they aren’t in reconciliation or off-course. But it’s not the correct forum to question reconciliation as a concept, as something that is attainable. I keep in mind that I don’t HAVE to post, least of all in anger or frustration.

Same applies to Divorce, although I see less of that there. If someone is divorcing, then it’s not our role to push them off that path. I keep in mind that I don’t HAVE to post, least of all in anger or frustration.

But… this applies EXTRA for the Wayward Forum…
The minefield of SI… Where too many betrayed posters tread into and feel a need to contribute from a stance of anger and indignance.
Keep in mind that just because a WS doesn’t have a stop-sign on a thread its not open-season with a no-limit kill on them. We always post with the basic guideline of respect, patience and compassion, keeping in mind that WS are welcomed here. If you think they aren’t already at the place where they are remorseful and committed to healing then let the mods know, or let the OP know using words and phrases that comply with respect, patience and compassion.

Maybe we all should take a short break to go to the Main Page and read what’s stated about each forum, and then keep that in mind when contributing. Different forum might require different hats…

A very good and simple rule:
Only post if you can help, and if you can’t then remember: You don’t HAVE to post.

Perhaps the title of "cat hearder" should be added next to Attaché?

Thank you for the well thought out reminder. I’ll say that I was attracted to this place because it was thoughtful and respectful. They are important values to preserve.

Cat herder?
I personally sort-of prefer this visual image of me with a gun in one hand and a Martini in the other…
If for nothing else then less hair on the tuxedo…

I would like to thank the regular Waywards who take the time to contribute. I appreciate the fact they do take the time and it has certainly helped me work out what my husband should and shouldn’t be doing and what to call out and what to look for.

When you can’t see the wood for the trees the ww contributions and answering questions does help. Even if you don’t like the answer.

I also think reading their responses have helped reduce my triggers over time. This probably won’t work for all people but it has helped me.

Thank you once again.

Cat herder

That would indeed be the correct spelling, thank you

I have now officially changed my mental image of you to Fabio as 007. Trust me, it’s very nice.

Edit to add: does this fall under the category of “you don’t HAVE to post”? 🧐

[This message edited by InkHulk at 1:07 PM, Friday, February 16th]

If "you" decide to post - first think about what and how to contribute to the person who is posting.

Put yourself - as best you can - into what is their current situation.

Wayward lately has been in a dearth of posters.

Why? I think some find this place and look about - and then to often see someone verbally stomping some poor soul.
Sometimes post once or twice and vanish. Others, I suspect, just move on to another URL.

There are other less tightly moderated forums covering same trail as SI but much more or even rife with people who comment like they want to kill a wayward. kind of a sick attitude my assessment

So if you do post in ANY forum - keep in mind this forum tries to maintain the attitude of providing uplifting help to those in pain who come visit here looking for relief to find a way out of pain.

This is harder: English is (well, the American version) is a mongrel language. There are words people happily use that are "foreign" - words from another language and used so much they have become integral part of our English.

"Restaurant" - most folks, I surmise, don't realize is it "adopted" from French!
"Schadenfreude" - German and says in one word a concept that takes a sentence in English to covey.

So? When you choose the words and sentence to post - first think how the reader - the OP - may interpret your comment.
Words can hurt more than physical harm. Keep that in mind.

Language is, with words properly selected and used, capable of conveying any information we intend - but "mean" word choice is a losing proposition. When you hurt someone with words - their mind immediately is going into defense mode and your message is lost in the noise in their head that you have triggered with your choice of words that have added to their already delicate balance of what sanity they have - being the cheater or cheatee -

Also consider that by conveying your message with hurting choices of words - you are causing the person to recoil from further reading. Think of a young child first time they touched something hot.

Perhaps put your words in a notepad and let them stew a bit - go for a walk or ?? - then come back to your note and read.
Ask if you would like what you penned to be said to you in the same word choice.

Well said and thanks!

I am one who has let several threads die now as I just get no encouragement from them. I have things I would like to say / ask but there just seems no point anymore. So I piggyback off other situations and look for the good advice there.

I would also like to thank waywards who post. Gives such a great insight to the mindset both before, during and after which is so good for understanding. Very brave to do so in a place dominated by the hurt.

Ozzy

Bigger thank you for this post.
Cat Herder Attache in chief. Lol
You are the best. Seriously.

Of course comments should always be constructive and with an aim toward empowering to the person to whom you're giving advice.

But I think it's also worth noting that if comment stings and makes you want to lash out, it's worth pausing, giving the comment some thought, and really consider whether the comment was really out of line ... or is highlighting an uncomfortable truth that you're not ready or willing to accept.

But I think it's also worth noting that if comment stings and makes you want to lash out, it's worth pausing, giving the comment some thought, and really consider whether the comment was really out of line ... or is highlighting an uncomfortable truth that you're not ready or willing to accept.

I would say it’s important to know your audience.

If we are talking about a new wayward posting, trying to figure this all out, coming in guns a-blazing and attacking that person or thought process may not be the right approach if we want them to make any change. If the goal is to put them on the defense or run them out, then sure blatant honesty and sharp tones are appropriate. That is not the goal here though.

As someone starts healing and commits to the process more, that is a time when one can start looking at the "sting" of directness.

I think this post is a good reminder that tone matters. We do not have the benefit of body language to help us decipher tone so the language used is key.

In addition to everything that Bigger has already said, I want to emphasize that we welcome your help in keeping this a safe space. Please contact us if you feel you see anything that violates the guidelines here. You can start a thread with "Mod please" or pm the staff.

If we are talking about a new wayward posting, trying to figure this all out, coming in guns a-blazing and attacking that person or thought process may not be the right approach if we want them to make any change. If the goal is to put them on the defense or run them out, then sure blatant honesty and sharp tones are appropriate. That is not the goal here though.

I wasn't speaking about the Wayward forum specifically. I also wasn't even referring exclusively to comments that are "guns blazing." Obviously, tone is difficult to gage online and we all need to be cognizant of that fact... but I've seen people fly off or get offended by posts that are perfectly reasonable and respectful. That's usually a sign that the comment has hit too close the mark.

As for the Wayward forum, I've noticed that it's become far less active since the heavy hitters (like Zugwang, for example) stopped posting. Correlation doesn't mean causation, of course, but perhaps it's not necessarily true that cheaters who are sincere and well meaning in their desire to get out of infidelity will be easily scared off the site.

People who are committed to doing The Work and living honestly will be able to appreciate and accept honesty from others. People who are accustomed to dictating the terms of every interaction they have, are skilled manipulators, and see themselves as tragic heroes and everyone else as NPCs, won't.

But in the end, as Bigger said... you don't have to post. Sometimes it's good to take a break from SI from time to time, too.

Thanks for the thoughtful reminder Bigger. I will say this is a kinder gentler group than when I was newbie. I always appreciated being respectfully challenged. I absolutely hated some internet stranger calling my W names, yes I was upset with her, but don't call my W names.

Great post Bigger.

I think we need to meet people where they are. Folks show up at various stages of the grieving / healing process. One size (in terms of advice) does not fit all.

In my time here I've come to believe that most people get to where they need to be. But it takes time. Pushing folks to think, feel or act in a way that they are not emotionally prepared for just starts to feel like bullying (I'm not saying it is, but it can come across like that given we are writing to each other v. talking). Unless someone is in physical danger or being emotionally abused, taking their time through this process is normal and usually good for them.

Plus, I am keenly aware that the stories here are not MY story. It's not my marriage on the line. I don't want to see people stay in painful situations but nor do I want to presume, at all, that I know what should work for their marriage, family and future. It's real people posting here with real relationships, children, financial futures, etc. It's not a game. We're in it to support other humans in their darkest hour.

Yeah, I can only advise, if you feel like sharing then do it even if it deviates from the views and advices of other commenters. The OP can then choose themselves whether they can find something in your advice or they don't. Information is better then no information. But I also concur that you have to follow the guidelines, I sometimes felt myself getting triggered by some stories, by having experienced something similar. You feel kinda 'dumb' in hindsight and can't believe that the OP can't see the 'errors' because you already experienced it or saw something similar. I needed some time to get it controlled.

I tread on the Wayward side with reverence, humility and respect. These Waywards are trying, and I don’t want to discourage. I wish my WS had the guts to post there.

Thanks to all the mods for not letting this forum devolve into one of those heavily trolled, rage bating, thumbs up-thumbs down, karma collection forums that do more harm than good.

As for the Wayward forum, I've noticed that it's become far less active since the heavy hitters (like Zugwang, for example) stopped posting. Correlation doesn't mean causation, of course, but perhaps it's not necessarily true that cheaters who are sincere and well meaning in their desire to get out of infidelity will be easily scared off the site.

While I made peace eventually with zugwang, I came here and left for four months after he responded to my very first post. I had to have many arguments with him the first year over calling female ws slurs. Eventually the mods rules and he had to stop using that language. I think what he was saying was the opposite of what a ws actually needs to heal. He softened a bit in some of the years that followed and like I said I made peace with him but he was not helpful to me at all. I looked at posts from Deeply scared, Maia, and some of the people who made this site comprehensive yet compassionate for ws and that’s what kept me here, and helped me see many truths.

I don’t actually think most people respond to hard hitting posts with any compliance. Especially a newbie, whether it’s a bs or a ws. The just found out forum used to be breathtakingly bad for this, I am not sure if it still is because I don’t read in there anymore.

If you look at all the forums since Covid, they have all slowed down. Even here. General, reconciliation, they don’t move at the pace they once did. I am pretty sure one of the mods made a post about that not too long back but I can’t remember which one. Maybe they can chime in.

Thanks for the thoughtful reminder Bigger. I will say this is a kinder gentler group than when I was newbie.

I agree wholeheartedly. It’s ions better than it used to be.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:45 AM, Sunday, February 18th]

You know... if I was a bigger man, I might not debate about the need to include flatulence related commentary on the regular.

Unfortunately, sometimes I just have to air things out or the smell will never fade.

As for the Wayward forum, I've noticed that it's become far less active since the heavy hitters (like Zugwang, for example) stopped posting. Correlation doesn't mean causation, of course, but perhaps it's not necessarily true that cheaters who are sincere and well meaning in their desire to get out of infidelity will be easily scared off the site.

A very, very long time lurker here. I didn't expect this to be my first post on this forum, but, although I agree that the lack of heavy hitters has impacted the WS side of the forum, I do sometimes believe it may also be a generational issue. Based on my observations, especially in my professional life, I can say that there is quite a stark contrast between the newer generations and older generations (talking like a bonafide boomer :)). Of course, being aware that this is a generalization; newer generations may have different expectations, may be more thin-skinned, self-absorbed, more sensitive to 2x4s...etc Thus, they are quicker to remove themselves from a stressful yet, in the long term, beneficial environment.

T/J
Glad you diffused the thread with your special contributions, NTV. Good to see your name again. 💨
end of T/J

Great thread and good reminder.

👏 👏 👏

To your post 🥂

It always sends a little drop in my heart when I see hurt people hurting people in posts. When posting, I try to come from a place of building someone up. Think, "is this building them up or tearing them down?"

People don’t heal in shame, people don’t heal in criticisms, people don’t heal in judgments. It takes compassion to help someone walk through their healing. A lot of times they’re in their own way, with their own shame and judgments and criticisms. They don’t need more, they can likely give those to themselves all on their own, and probably quite easily and subconsciously.

Coming from a place of being safe and compassionate in posts can help people grow to not only see your point but to learn to nurture that same compassion with their own selves. The goal is to heal, and as more people heal that’s less people throwing their hurt on to others. Which is how a lot of us ended up here to begin with! It’s breaking the cycle. No more hurting others because you’re hurt.

[This message edited by maise at 1:53 PM, Friday, February 23rd]