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I could destroy my fWS with my comments and retorts.

We were just discussing an issue he has at the office. He is being very strategic and trying to do what’s best for all parties involved and not just his department’s self interest.

I just glared at him and held my comments.

I just got pissed off. Not only is it that he’s unaware of how it is just a reminder that he is capable of thinking of others but it reminds me that I am restraining myself and deciding NOT to be destructive with my actions.

And we were having a great morning.

No.

I expect him to be transparent, and share his feelings with me,and I do the same in return.

Why bite your tongue? Express how you feel. If he is remorseful, and empathetic, it will give him the opportunity to agree with you and apologize for his past shitty behavior.

Bs often say they don't think their ws understands just how the infidelity has affected every part of our lives..or how often it's on our mind. How can they know when we bite our tongue?

Now, if a ws is defensive, has little or no empathy, and wants their bs to just stop talking about it..then I understand not saying anything. But if you want true R, then both of you need to share how you feel.

I guess you didn’t get what I was saying Hellfire.

I’m sorry reconciliation didn’t work for you.

I’m still trying to hold on to the part of me that is a person who tries not to destroy people with my tongue.

Since the affair much of my anger and hurt and disappointment gets expressed in a way that is destructive. I don’t want to be destructive. I’m trying to hold on to my humanity and empathy.

Gently-
You seem very bitter. I can count on you to convince everyone here who is struggling with reconciliation that their WS is not doing the work and that they are in false reconciliation. You consistently reply with explanations I think are designed to make the BS doubt the efforts of the WS.

Sometimes that is necessary…..but in a lot of cases it seems to come out of hurt and disappointment that your WH was lying to you.

As I stated above, I am sorry reconciliation didn’t work for you. I hope you find the time in your life to heal from the devastation of false reconciliation.

I am restraining myself and deciding NOT to be destructive with my actions.

I think it's super emotionally intelligent of you to bite your tongue in this instance.

I'm a big believer in real-time transparency and authenticity, but I also think that there's a time and a place for everything. If he works from home (or was just leaving for work), is in work mode, and has a big decision on his plate today, it's not an appropriate time for a heavy conversation. It probably wouldn't lead anywhere good, either, as you recognized.

We don't always have to share our feelings and thoughts when we're having them. We can save talking about them for when there's time for conversation and attentions are undivided.

I didn't see bitterness in HF's response and I think it's generally good advice. I would temper it with the "time and place" caveat, though.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 11:04 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

I held my tongue often. My wife would say things that blow my mind. She would criticize people by saying today's generation is into FWB, that's just wrong how people are now.
Meanwhile I'm thinking in my head WTF do you call what you did. I have brought this up to her too and she says affairs are different. Er....ok....

You are right on with time and place management. Being a BS does not (or should not) give you the right to carte blanche lash out whenever you feel like it. Of course you can, but IDK what that gets you in the end.

I recall feeling EXACTLY like you did this morning in year 2. Like precisely the same. And I felt like an a-hole for thinking it because "didn't I want my WH to be empathetic" - I mean really? I did not want to attack the empathy itself - but the lack of empathy for me in a different instance. This is an important distinction because it also signals to your brain - I do not need to address this right now - this is a BIG topic not one worthy only of a single snarky comment...This topic is worthy of discussion - certainly I need to tell my WH how I feel about this but what I really want to know has nothing to do with his empathy and consideration of co-workers - what I want to know is how he was able to get around, avoid, forget, neglect, fail to have, etc etc - any consideration for me and my feelings during his A. The work thing is the opening line "I know you can be empathetic when you want, and seeing you being so caring and considerate towards you co-workers is great - I think that is the right way to approach your work, but seeing this also makes me feel sad and upset as I wonder how you managed to so wholly avoid considering me and my feelings when having your A." To make a shitty comment when no real discussion is possible to me minimizes the importance of the issue and takes away from a better future discussion of it by having to muck through a nasty comment. Sure it may feel good in the moment but if you are trying to R then why make it harder for yourself?

I'm guessing that is really where you would rather go. If you are in snark-mode and actually want to do anything other than burn your relationship with your WS to the ground (I was snarky for a LONG LONG time and frequently had to bite my tongue) I suggest getting it out somewhere. I used to just lash out at WH while driving when he was not in the car - talking away to myself like a lunatic and saying out loud all kinds of HORRIBLE things I am certainly glad I never said to his face (or anyone). Part of this was for me - I did not want to become this mean, angry, bitter person - I did not want it to embody me going forward no matter what happened with WH - and I really wanted to hold onto the moral high ground which required (in my mind) not doing or saying anything I would not want coming back at me.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 5:01 PM, Wednesday, March 6th]

I think it’s easy in the moment to get triggered and say things that are hurtful. Generally, it’s normal to lash out in those early months, but there has to be some self control on those moments when you feel like what you might say is abusive as time wears on.

It’s better to sit down and journal or use some other way to change what you are feeling into a productive conversation. I agree with hellfire on not holding things in, I just feel sometimes when we are flooding with negative emotion, it’s better to work through it a bit ourselves because it’s not okay to be verbally abusive with your ws. Like I said I think that’s understandable for the early days, but that’s not behavior that is in alignment with your stated goal of trying to reconcile.

Perhaps this evening when he returns from work, you may say something to the effect of "I was really triggered this morning because I saw how carefully you were weighing your actions. It is such a hard reminder that you did not give me that same consideration. We are reconciling because I truly want this to work, and I assume that you may be weighing me a lot in your decisions, but that it’s hard for me to appreciate it or always see it during this time. What I could really use from you is feedback when you are doing that so it can be more obvious to me. I would like to become more comfortable with how that works and that you truly have my back moving forward."

Again, this is probably an over simplified script. But the goals are:

1. To be able to talk calmly about your trigger so that it doesn’t start rolling up into the next issue. You refrained from being hurtful, that took a lot and it was the right move, but I just wouldn’t rug sweep it altogether. Sharing these things will allow him to anticipate your triggers and allow him into your internal world.

2. To identify your need, state it, and expect to receive it. Every time you do this and he does what is needed builds into that trust/love bank. You trust he will take the ball and run with it. If he doesn’t you follow up with him and share your disappointment.

3. Learning to talk about your negative emotions in a productive way will be important for your healing.

Reconciling requires a lot of hard conversations. And it requires the wisdom to know that you need to be constructive rather that destructive in your efforts to rebuild too. Sometimes those highly emotional things need to come out, but I think in this instance taking a pause was the right thing to do. You have to think of it as you two are on the same team with the same goal. Should he not take these conversations and try and learn and integrate them, then you consider whether you truly are on the same team with the same goal and that might be informing other options you may take.

For now, you are trying to reconcile and keeping the communication open while not being verbally abusive or destructive is the right move.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:24 PM, Wednesday, March 6th]

So... I know you are speaking about your ws. Being betrayed is like being dosed with 20 mgs of Fuckitall and 39 mgs of Fuqu2, and it's really, really easy to blow up at the smallest thing.

For your situation, do you feel like the anger about this conversation is from him not considering you during the affair or because he's not showing you enough initiative?

If it's the first, that's just another bitter pill to swallow. If it's the second, then a conversation about it with him might be worth having. Hell, even if it isn't the second, if he's not showing enough initiative, then it still might be worth having.

As far as biting your tongue? Oh hell yeah, I know the feeling. I did it all the time during r. If I didn't, then it'd just be me crapping on the floor all the time. Or farting in parties. Or... well, you probably know exactly what I'm getting at.

Hell, I bite my tongue almost every day on a regular anyway. My sense of humor isn't really suites for most public places. Or children. Or business meetings. Or... well, you get it it.

It's a huge problem for me. Because fart jokes SHOULD be universal. Everyone should enjoy them at all times. It's kinda distressing that they don't. I mean, do I hafta form a political party and campaign on the issue to see the positive changes I want to see on this? Fuck, that sounds like a lot of work. It also seems like the kinda fart that you wanna push out but aren't sure if it's gonna be just a fart, so I've been holding back.

Anyways, you've been heard, and it's good that you have the self control you do.

Some questions i ask myself before i say anything to my WH are
1. Is it true?
2. Is it necessary?
3. Is it fair?
4. Does this help me and us heal?

If the answer is no to any one of these questions, then i hold my tongue.
Don’t get me wrong! It would certainly make me feel better to lash out at the WH!

When I decided to offer R I told her she’d better buckle up because I’m not holding back. If I feel it, she’s going to feel it. With that said, I am a witty sarcastic person, but I’m not an asshole so a lot of it stays in my thoughts. Many times after we were well into R I could have zinged her good, but I didn’t because it wasn’t going to help anyone.

I definitely did.

I agree with Hellfire that you're not doing anyone any favours by swallowing your feelings all the time. I had a lot of quick retorts/zingers during my anger stage that always seemed to be at the ready, and unfortunately (if you're my husband), I'm never wittier, more clever, or more clear than when I'm mad. I think some anger is to be expected and I don't think that holding it in enables your spouse to see the ubiquity of the hurt you are experiencing, how it is present in your mind literally ALL the time. I don't think that is healthy for you, and I don't think it allows your spouse the opportunity to acknowledge and speak to your triggers/issues in a way that may allow you (both) to feel more connected. I think there is a time and a place for anger and that anger can absolutely be productive in some instances.

That doesn't give me carte blanche to say every shitty comment that popped into my head however. Being mean or petty on unrelated issues/grievances just because you see an opening to do so, is obviously not productive to rebuilding a marriage if that is what your goal is. There were plenty of times I delivered devastating quips/comments to my husband that when I stepped back and thought about it, were not because he was doing anything wrong in that moment, they were just because I was miserable, and I was trying to drag him down with me because I resented that he cheated and I was the one who felt like crap all the time. It wasn't nice and it wasn't helpful or productive. In those instances where I felt I had crossed the line, I (appropriately) apologized.

In this instance, it would be one thing for you to say, "I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time hearing you do this right now because you're demonstrating a level of a empathy/consideration for others that I feel was absolutely missing during X, Y, and Z, and it's bringing up a lot of resentment for me." That is a productive expression of your (valid) feelings that he can reasonably respond to in a way that is not purpose-designed to pick a fight.

[This message edited by emergent8 at 9:54 PM, Wednesday, March 6th]

Notthevictem: Wow! A+
I love this comment. It made me laugh several times even though the message was painful. I love to laugh through pain. And I adore this.
But I am not just an asshole to dispel the yuk as I feel it happen. Though, there are actually similar neuro-receptors down there. But I digress.
I literally have to wake up every day, and intentionally, choose, not to dispel my stuff on who I choose not to. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve it, or even that they haven’t been warned. I have to choose to hold it in…even or especially the concerning ones. If I am concerned, I try to find a secure place. Most often chosen is my house, but not always. Especially if for some reason, usually of my own making, it’s not safe. When I am concerned, I think about others around. I think my point is, not sure because I am laughing tears at the moment, I can even think about the foul stuff that seems impossible to control but I do it. Why do I do that? To cause no harm to others. That does not mean that a random does not escape occasionally😂

I know the pain you're in. Have been there. Like a ball of needles onside you, and getting just one off the ball hurts like hell.

And it's either pull one out knowing its one of ten thousands or bottling them up to rot your insides.

It feels like an impossible task. It isn't, but knowing and feeling are two different things.

Sometimes it's either laugh or cry... and I know which I prefer.

So, if I made you laugh and distracted you from those needles for a few minutes, its worth it.

If I can do that AND slip put a fart joke? It's a great day lol

This place can be so affirming. Thank you.

Hikingout I needed those words. I said some gentler words than what I thought.

It’s actually about me and who I want to be- holding on and not this make. E behave horribly.

I’m glad you cannot get divorced or jailed for your thoughts lol.

I’d be in big trouble 😂😂😂

I think it’s hard as the betrayed yo not speak your mind especially when their current actions show concern for others but that concern did not exist towards the betrayed.

I had a few rages at my H. Some were 5 and 6 years after the affair ended.

In fact the most recent was a few months ago (10 years post Dday). I kept saying to him "your credit card debt" and he kept correcting me.

We have separate credit card accounts. O no joint CC accounts. Why? Because his plan to D me was real. He was walking out the door leaving me w/ no $ and shaky financial future.

Since then I am financially well protected. If he wants to be an idiot and not pay his debts it won’t affect me. His CC debt (which there is none) is his to manage and if he is irresponsible then that is his problem.

So when I told him why things are the way they are with our finances he finally understood the depth of his own selfishness and its impact on me.

Cheaters think - oh ok I cheated sorry!

Betrayeds think - you broke my heart and trust but yet I still choose to love you and live with the pain.

I have very much struggled with this. My WH will talk about people under his command doing dumb things or making poor decisions and I internally roll my eyes. He jeopardized his career and family with his affair. The epitome of dumb.
I have been working through this in therapy and she suggested I make some boundaries for myself. That I can voice how I feel to WH but not in a mean or spiteful way. Which I have been doing mean and spiteful at times. It is more for myself than for him. I was hating who I was turning into.
I still have those thoughts about him. Some of the hypocritical things he said while in his affair just blows my mind. But I’m trying not to voice them as much.

I don't find this feeling too uncommon. Hell, for the first couple years, I had a smart-assed comment locked & loaded for EVERY comment that came out of her mouth. It's the tempering and refraining from those that was the hard part.

But they were at the forefront for quite some time.

During the first few weeks after D-day, I would be working with clients, they might be rambling on and on about anything, service industry you know, and I would have to just focus on breathing, and staying calm and focused. I would literally bite down gently but firmly on my tongue to help myself remain focused by using the discomfort as a distraction from all the shit.

It was way better than me jumping up to my feet and screaming into their face

"MY WIFE WAS FUCKING SOMEONE ELSE AND NOW I'M GOING TO MC IN ALL MY FREE TIME, DO YOU REALLY THINK I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR DAMN..."

Yeah, I've bit my tongue a lot, at home, and at work.

Howcthappen

Hubby wearing two hats

One is "worker" hat - doing Job' as training has taught - that and experience. Is he a people manager? Management of people as employees a bit different from family.

2nd (and should be primary!) had - husband
Well, he is being plain inconsiderate and selfish (just my opinion) FWIW