SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Anyone else 1 month after Dday, or around the same time? Just want to compare and contrast experiences and insights.

Check in with newbeginnings1985. He has a recent post, not many responses. He is 7 weeks out. He is new so not sure he can pm yet, but perhaps comment on his thread because so think you guys could learn a lot from one another.

I’m also seven weeks from DDay

I am 7 months out but still very early in this mess and the pain from the beginning months can still be very raw so I’m here too.

Is everyone experiencing thinking you are making progress with your spouse who is in the "fog", only to realize they really aren't? I thought my wife was possibly turning a corner, and I still don't see any remorse. She's just unwilling to drop the self-protection nonsense.

I am 6 months from DDay. I feel progress and my WH is showing a lot of remorse but the pain is still very difficult most days. I hope you are in IC and MC. Therapy helps.

I came on here before I knew the TT wasn’t over, when my H was still lying about the most trivial and HUGE things as well. I remember thinking he was remorseful and people on here telling me to be careful because most WS are guilty not remorseful. I found out about my H affair in October and didn’t get the full truth until January , which then he had hit rock bottom and was sobbing so bad he couldn’t breathe. It took a a lot longer than I thought it would to become remorseful , like truly remorseful. He admitted to having a porn addiction as well as harboring resentment towards the kids and I because of his own demons. During the first few months I think he WAS making progress slowly but nowhere close to being remorseful, I thought he was until I realized that his story didn’t make sense and pieces didn’t fit.

I remember finding a band shit in his truck and it looked like it came from a concert. For 4 months he lied and swore it came from his guy friend. I kept asking him why a guy friend would buy him a shirt and not expect money for it. He didn’t have a good answer that made me feel like he was telling the truth. Finally after me asking every day for months he admitted she bought it for him at a concert she went to and he bought her a shirt at a concert we went to FOR OUR ANNIVERSARY. I asked him why it was the last lie he told me because it was so freaking stupid. He told me it was because technically he paid for it and he loved the band. He swore up and down it didn’t remind him of her but it took him that long to realize he couldn’t keep the shirt.
A week later he came home to the shirt being ripped in shreds sitting on our kitchen island. He didn’t say a word but tossed it in the trash.

I know we are only 7 months out from d day and only 5 months from when I got the truth (I think at least) and I can now see the changes, he is honest about his mistakes, he answers all of my questions, he looks at the kids and I different and I think he truly regrets what he did.

It doesn’t make things better for me yet and I’m nowhere close to being healed but he is working hard to make changes.

So to answer your question , yes I thought that my H was turning a corner at the beginning and although he was in a sense it wasn’t anywhere close to what it needed to be. It wasn’t until he truly had to see the turmoil he created by seeing how damaged I was that he realized that he was messed up and needed to change. It wasn’t until he quit his job , got away from

The porn and AP that he started to realize that he just needed an escape and a fantasy because he was running from his problems instead of facing them. When he was able to look in the mirror and really see who he was and what he was capable of , he decided he wanted to change. WS run from who they are because they can’t truly accept what they were capable of , they make their issues someone else’s and they push everything down. At least my H did. He found reasons that he was owed this affair, he made me AND his children the enemy.

Just be careful because remorse takes a lot longer than we think , especially for the super selfish WS.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 6:36 PM, Sunday, May 19th]

I'm still dealing with the TT as well. She finally told me where their rendezvous point was, only because I figured it out before she told me. At least she was honest when I asked - at least I hope. She still won't tell me what days that met during this period. Says she forgets which is BS. During one of our discussions I got kinda pissed and overwhelmed and stopped her when she wanted to tell me how the A "felt" to her. I stopped her and told her I already had too much in my head from it all. Needed to digest what she already told me. Now she's withholding it because "I can't deal with it." Well, I keep reinforcing my point that if I am truly going to start trusting her I need the facts of the story that she has. What really bothers me is when I tell her how I felt prior to DDay, what I experienced, and my feelings of hurt and resentment prior - she didn't really show much emotion. Not a frown, a tear, just a blank face. I told her it seemed like everything I went through and going through that it doesn't matter. I would just like her to say she's at least sorry, or that she can see where I'm coming from. It's just the subtle hurt she is doing with our without knowing it that's driving me nuts. And if I can expect the same for another 4 to 5 months I may go crazy.

I’m glad this newer "class" is finding each other. I find a certain camaraderie with people who are on a similar timeline as well.

Regarding TT, sorry friends, there is no time limit on that shit. I know I got it for no less than 15 months, and I suspect that I never got it all. Hard boundaries on evasiveness and lies, maybe a poly, these are your tools. TT is horrible and abusive and you should not tolerate it.

Rambler

The problem of comparing yourself mainly to those on the same timeline or the same place as you is that you only get the perspective of those that are at the same place as you are. It’s like a group of travelers back in the days heading over the Great Prairie towards some unknown mythical destination. Without the stories and guidance of those that have already made at least part of that journey... all you get is imagination and expectations rather than experience and information. That information might not make the journey much-less strenuous, but it might enable you to take the correct heading right away, and skip a lot of meandering and backtracking...

Unfortunately, Rambler, you have shown a reluctance to listen to those that have already made that journey. Maybe because your journey seems like be to save your marriage rather than get out of infidelity.

I think that might be because you equate "getting out of infidelity" with divorce.
It’s not. Far from it. If your biggest fear is divorce, and your only goal is to remain married... well... try to ignore the affair. After all – it’s probably over for now. The OM is probably doing his best to keep it a secret. If it was "out of character" then he’s probably trying to focus on why his wife forced him to have to have an affair (just like your wife has been telling you how this is really all your fault...). If he is a womanizer and in an educational environment, he’s probably selecting his next Masters candidates or whatever...
But like I have shared... over for now... THAT convention, THAT company outing, THAT annual report that needs a lot of inter-department overtime... and the odds are so high it rekindles. Even if it doesn’t... it’s days and evenings where you are in agony wondering what if...

After all – your wife is convinced it’s your fault, and maybe before she leaves home to go to that convention where you know OM will be in attendance she complains that you have been moody and you two say goodbye for the weekend on bad terms...

I encourage you to take more heed in the voices of experience. I’m fine if you ignore mine – this isn’t personal. There are others offering just as good and probably even better advice.

Just don’t ignore the advice offered...

Bigger - I am definitely taking heed from everyone's experiences that are "farther down the road" in their timeline that I am. I am still hyper vigilant, my boundaries are known and reinforced everyday, and I am not showing any vulnerability towards my WW until I know I am ready for that. Will it be 6 months or 16 months - I don't know. I'm just not allowing her to hurt me daily and allowing any other choices she may make really hurt me. I have a VAR in her purse that is perfectly hidden. I monitor her social media and texts. If for a second I find out she is still engaging with the OM - I will be gone. I have already retained a lawyer and I contact her frequently to make sure my legal obligations are being met to protect my own interests if that will be the next step. I am not taking any blame for her choices whatsoever. If she felt that damned terrible and lost she should have had the guts to ask for MC, separation, or divorce. She will hopefully come to the conclusion she just needed to selfishly feed her own damn ego. As far as my cohorts who are existing in the same timeline - it's good to vent with someone who is living in that space right now. Figuring it out day to day is harder right now than trying to surmise what will be months from now.

One's best bet is to ALWAYS read critically.

Those at a similar place on the timeline are good checks on what you feel. Those ahead of you on the timeline are decent predictors of how you're likely to feel if your circumstances are analogous enough.

Whether you're at approximately the same place as another poster or behind another poster, all posts provide insight into the variations of thoughts and feelings that can hit you at any particular time.

Read posts. Then figure out how you can use them.

*****

My W was deep in a fog during her A. By that I mean she was out of touch with reality. She just wasn't perceiving what was actually happening, and her thinking was way, way off. She just kept making choices that didn't work out the way she expected them to.

On d-day, just before I asked the critical question, she says she decided that being honest was the least that she could do. (It turns out she meant she expected to do more, but she had decided to be honest no matter what happened.) So I never got TT, blame-shifting, or minimizing.

IMO, R can't begin without a commitment to honesty. That means, also IMO, no more lies from the WS. That means answering every question as honestly as possible - no one knows 100% of their motivations, so questions about motivations might elicit different, more insightful and complete answers as a WS heals.

Who/what/when/where/how questions may elicit more info about any event, but late information will be congruent with early answers. If they're not, you've got TT.

Have you considered demanding a written timeline from your WS? I mean 'demand' - you walk if your WS won't supply it.

Have you considered offering to work together on the TL? That way, you can work with an event, ask all the questions you care about ATM, and document the answers. Later, if you think you're getting TT, you can check the TL and find out if it really is TT.

Bottom line: the fog is, IMO, real, but it's not in any way an excuse. It an obstacle to be resolved, but the WS is the only one who can resolve the WS's fog.

And the BS is the only one who can resolve the BS's fog, which usually shows up in statements that somehow excuse the BS.

And you really have to consider drawing a solid line. You need to decide how long you'll allow the lies by commission, by omission, and by changing the subject to go on before you act - but you (wjb) seem to have taken some good steps in that area.

*****

We all have to realize that we can hold contradictory thoughts in our heads, and they all may be true. For example:

I was not a perfect H, but my W's A was not about me.

My W was manipulated into the A, but she could and should have refused the hooks that caught her.

I have to risk the M to save it.

*****

Make your goal healing - processing the thoughts and feelings that come with being betrayed out of your body. Maybe you'll R; maybe you'll D. But you can't R successfully without healing, and you can't have a successful D without healing.

BS heals BS.

WS heals WS.

Together BS & WS heal/build/rebuild the M, if they choose to.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:42 PM, Monday, May 20th]

wjbrennan7

That is the response I hoped to get...
I realize that some of the advice offered sounds extremely harsh.

I realize your wish is to save your marriage and my advice is totally 100% based on reaching that goal. Only I’m equating marriage to a marital relationship, not simply cohabiting, and I’m also assuming it’s not at any cost. If it was at any cost – well... allow her to have her lover. It’s about 80% certain it won’t last or ever be anything more than a workplace affair. If your goal is simply to remain married to your wife – then that’s probably your safest and best bet.

Look – in infidelity as in most human interaction there are few definite.
Nobody can tell you with 100% certainty that your wife will cheat again. But there is research that shows that someone that has already cheated is 4-5 times more likely to cheat again than for someone that has never cheated to start. This doesn’t necessarily mean your wife will have another affair (or restart this one), but it does mean that the odds of her doing so are higher than Mrs. Jones your neighbor entering her first affair. BTW – this coincides with research showing that those that have broken one law are more likely to break another, and that those that have tried one hard drug are more likely to try more drugs. There is an initial barrier that most have a hard time crossing.
To use a comparison: The statistically correct fact you are more likely to have a car-crash if you text while driving does NOT equate to you going to crash while texting. It just means you are more likely.
Opposite logic is true as well: Using a seat-belt while driving won’t prevent you having a crash or even ensure your safety. It just improves your odds of survival IF you were to have a crash.

We have some "statistics" that repeated shared experiences indicate are true. They might all apply to you, or none of them might apply to you.

There are IMHO so many things stacked against you.
They work together
You socialize together
There is potential for interaction with your family (son)
Key stakeholders are in the dark
Your wife still does not see the affair as wrong
Your wife hasn’t clearly committed to the marriage to save the marriage – she’s saving her reputation and the OM reputation.

If I were to look at each factor as such:
They work together – they have opportunities to interact with no supervision. Now – this does not mean they will be all over each other, but they will have opportunities to covet the other. Maybe not at the same time, maybe with no mutual touch or whatever. To use a comparison: it’s like an alcoholic early in recovery working at a bar. It only takes one lapse, one accidental sip of the wrong bottle...
Plus you will probably never feel safe at home. You will be wondering "will he be at the joint meeting, the convention, the college event... Is she really working overtime, is it really unpaid, is she overdressing for her job today....?"

You socialize together – Are you going to scan every dinner, garden-party, party, softball game... and then leave once OM and his wife are there? Are you going to be wondering why he’s looking in your direction? Going to chase your wife to the bathroom?

What about when he’s interacting with your son? When its in his hands if he passes or fails a grade? If it’s in his hands if he makes the team? When your son comes home gushing about the wisdom or moral teachings of the man that nearly wrecked your family?

At the above parties... What about his wife if she comes and talks to your wife? If she’s thinking "there is someone I want as a best friend". If she invites you two over for dinner because you are such nice people? When you see her all happy and content, thinking she has it all. It’s your decision to keep her in the dark...

Your wife hasn’t accepted the blame, the damage and the accountability of her actions...
If the OM is a womanizer, then my above statistic of the odds of a repeat will tell you he will cheat again. It’s either again with your wife (after all – she hasn’t done anything really wrong...) or with another woman. My odds will also suggest that she is more likely to succumb to a new advance – after all she did nothing wrong.
Plus when your wife is all moody – say a year from now – and you realize it’s because she just heard on the office-grapevine that Mr. OM is doing Mrs. Accounting and that makes Mrs. wjbrennan jealous... Think that will be a good day?

Friend – the BEST way IMHO to deal with the above issues is to eliminate as many as possible.
The KEY factor to that IMHO is to make the affair reality. As in removing it from any excitement and secrecy and romance and making it REAL and PUBLIC. I’m not talking billboard public, but at the very minimum that the key-stakeholders (you, wife, om and his wife) know about it. Your reluctance... well... we have heard all the excuses before.
Who do you think know of the affair? I’m guessing you think it’s you, om and your wife as well as the MC. Add to that (probably) your WW best friend and thereby her best friend, possibly OM best friend, above 50% odds the office rumor-mill...
Why not let the people that should know in on the secret?

With that you have the KEY FACTOR to eliminate or minimize (nearly) ALL of the factors I state are stacked against you.

To use the texting and driving comparison:
You need to make an important trip. You are deciding to take the jalopy with shoddy breaks, not use the seat-belt, with only one bulb functioning in the dark, slightly tipsy and searching for your destination on your phone while driving at top speed...
You might make it... but simply eliminating one or more of the factors before setting off would greatly enhance your odds of making it safely.

She still won't tell me what days that met during this period.

Refusal to share the entire truth is proof your wife is not remorseful. You have zero shot at R unless and until she reaches true remorse, which I’d define as her being focused primarily on how YOU feel and how YOU have been wronged, and no longer simply feeling bad about her circumstances, namely, that she’s been caught.

If you truly want to save your M, your only hope is to lay down firm consequences for her and see if she chooses to come to repentance (evidenced by long-term consistent *actions*, not mere words). Such consequences, like confessing to your families what she’s done, writing an exhaustive timeline, reading it to you, signing a post-nuptial, etc., are NOT "punishments" but instead the natural outcome of her choices. Parents hand out consequences *because* they love their kids as it’s the best way to teach someone to think through their future choices more carefully.

Those who act with strength, namely allowing the natural consequences to occur, have the best shot at true R. I hope you won’t be one of the many who ignore this advice and must learn the hard way.

wjbrenn:

Read Biggers last post before this and note:

Your wife hasn’t accepted the blame, the damage and the accountability of her actions...

As Bigger notes - some words to you are "harsh" - well? Isn't your wife cheating harsh to you?

FWIW - only reason I'm still married is wife confessed everything (well, mostly) when the affair happened.

Your wife has confessed what?

You ask "how long" and how you will recover your sanity (my choice of word) - going forward.
You have a memory for life. Several years in the future - you may be able to start living day-to-day without this episode of your life intruding.