SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have two questions which I would value advice on.

1. Is this a bump in the road, or are the red flags a-waving?
My WH has been pretty good since D-Day in January this year. I THOUGHT I had all of the truth that I had asked for (after initial trickle truth) and he has shown repeated remorse, reassurance and - most of all - he really has changed his behaviour day to day. His temper was a huge deal years before his infidelity, but he has not shown this even in the most trying of circumstances, saying that he needs to transform all of his behaviour in the family, not just his fidelity. This behavioural change, as well as clear acceptance of my deal-breakers (see below - question 2!), has actually been the more important change, as I was not (and will not be) prepared to live on eggshells again. It's really been lovely to be with him and, even though I have been very traumatised by the infidelity, things have been going well. He has also been super patient about listening to my worries and reassuring me.
However, the other day, I raised a question about the truth - the real name of the OW, which he has repeatedly told me he never knew, (see below) and he went into complete 'fight' mode. I will preface this by saying that he had consumed quite a lot of alcohol. However, he completely refused to answer the question, saying it was the one question he was not prepared to answer, and that he had told me absolutely everything else [I do actually believe this], but if he told me the answer to this, it would mean divorce for us. He said he knew I would go after her and ruin her life (not true, but there are good reasons not to know - see question 2). Instead, he told me that I needed to stop being self-indulgent, move on and look to our future, to which he is completely committed. He said that he was the only person responsible for our marriage, not her. He said that me even asking the question reminded him of why he had been unfaithful to me as it showed how small-minded and focussed on the past I am. So, the list of red-flags were: threatening divorce, refusing to give the truth, calling me venomous names (I haven't quoted them here, but...), protecting the OW ["she didn't want to harm you or her family..."], saying he had made a terrible 'mistake' (minimising) and basically, not 'getting it'

The next day, sobered up, he was much more caring and he said that he would tell me the name if I really wanted it, but he did not want a nuclear bomb thrown into her family - I should just blame him for his infidelity; the OW was interchangeable with anyone he could have met online for a NSA hook-up and had nothing I could possibly be jealous of.

For those of you who have had longer reconciling - or are successfully reconciled, I just wonder if you think I should take this one-off (so far) outburst as a terrible red flag, or if I should think of this as a bump in the road on a long healing process with a seemingly-committed, normally sober WH?

Question 2: How does one decide dealbreakers? This is linked to above. My clear, stated deal-breakers are that:
a) There should be N/C with the OW
b) No more chat sites, dating sites, etc. EVER and no private messages (he suggested this one)
c) No sex/physical intimacy with anyone else EVER
I am very clear with myself that these will immediately mean the end of our marriage.

The one thing I THINK I want to know which WH hasn't told me is the identity of the OW (I have mentioned this before in a different post). I am wondering if this is actually something I DO want to know, or if I am simply treating it like a test of loyalty (he is affirming their agreement and not our marriage vows). The fact is that, whilst I want him to tell me the truth - simply because it is the truth - I am not actually sure if knowing will help me move on. I know I won't be able to help looking her up, and - even if he affaired down as he said he did - that is still not going to put me in a healing place. There will always be another question to ask. So, in one way, he is right - I really just need to focus on blaming him and working on the future... I feel powerless, jealous, etc., but should I make this a deal breaker or not? I know that if I make it a deal breaker, I can't go back on that.

Agh! Advice, please! Many thanks.

He is prioritizing protecting his OW over you, his wife. In my opinion, that’s a dealbreaker.

Bluerthanblue is right. He values his secret more than the truth. That’s a huge deal breaker. Calmly tell him you want to know who she is and it’s none of his business what you do with the information. He is hiding something big from you. Anytime a WS deflects with the divorce ploy is a huge huge huge red flag. I would be prepared next time to call his bluff. He has completely lost any right to establish conditions. When a spouse cheats they must surrender unconditionally. Any caveats or buts are red flags.

Good luck. The OW might be someone you know or someone he works with so be prepared for the worst. Either you’ve been twice betrayed or he could lose his job because he’s afraid of the affair exposure at work.

Also, he needs to lay off the alcohol. It is not a friend of the marriage.

[This message edited by crazycatlady at 5:17 PM, Sunday, September 1st]

Him blowing up at you like that is completely unacceptable, drunk or not. If that is how he behaves under the influence, then he should give it up. But I wouldn’t just blame the booze here, he is clearly hiding something with her identity and the alcohol just lowered his self control and his composure slipped here.

I can’t imagine not knowing who the AP was. I would find that wildly disturbing, and I can’t imagine getting back to a sense of safety with that intentionally withheld from me. Plus this shows a lie, he said he didn’t know her identity. He clearly does, he just doesn’t want you to know. When is the last time he told you he didn’t know her identity? Lies should be added to your dealbreaker list.

You should get her identity for your own peace of mind. And then, if she is in a committed relationship, you should let the OBS (other betrayed spouse) know that he has been betrayed, because that is the right thing to do. His physical and mental health has recklessly been put at risk and he deserves to know the truth about his own life, just like you do.

BluerthanBlue nailed it.

He's protecting the OW.

You deserve to know the truth, the entire truth.

Alarm bells are ringing - red flags are a-flapping. Gut response - you need to know her name. He may be closely guarding her identity because it's someone you know. (ETA: Or, protecting her is really protecting himself. Is he worrried you and OBS may compare notes? Maybe if the name is revealed the true length and breadth of the A may come to light.) Can't imagine even attempting R without knowing who the betrayal accomplice was! That unknown is just TOO big to rug sweep, at least for me.

Your concern about shifting your focus (anger?) onto her is legit. But the BS tendency to compare ourselves to AP, hold anger at AP, and dig for more AP info is human nature. It's NORMAL. It's only problematic when it becomes an unhealthy, unmanageable perseveration. For most, AP rumination dissipates and fades --- given time. You're already obsessing a bit over NOT knowing who she is correct? It's months later and her identity is the MAIN unanswered question that troubles you. This should tell you something. Yes, it feels like you really DO want (need?) to know who she is. Of course knowing her identity will unearth more questions! That's OKAY. Witholding ANYTHING you want to know is an impediment to your healing, and burying your emotions to spare him more questioning is not healthy. Buried feelings have a way of gnawing at you. They may bubble up or erupt when you least expect it. Maybe even years later. So ask what you need to know. If his answers lead to more questions, so be it. Consequences! Telling everything YOU need to know to help YOUR peace of mind should be his priority if R is seriously on the table.

Panopticon (LOVE your moniker!) the whole "AP isn't responsible to the marriage" excuse/logic is IMO, a load of baloney. If she knew he was married, she knowingly participated in crapping on your marriage. She willingly colluded with your H to betray both spouses. AND she's inflicting the same pain you're grappling with on the OBS. He just may not know it yet. She's putting his health at risk, etc. She is not "blameless".

And heck yes he's protecting her - and DARVOing you while doing it. You know.... that old DARVO chestnut "it's not what I did that's the problem, the problem is your reaction to it." HATE that.

More red flags = You mentioned his "temper" was ( IS!) a problem, and "living on eggshells" before D-day. Does verbal abuse exist in your marriage? The exchange you describe is NOT okay, booze or no. Threatening D, name calling and blame shifting when he's supposedly serious about R (!!!) - good heavens. He's bullying you to get his way. Are threats and anger to get his way typical behavior? Is he in individual counseling? Seems if he's serious about R and "transforming his behavior" getting help with his "temper" should be another priority! White knuckling through his problems and maladaptive behaviors (alcohol abuse???) isn't dealing with them.

To close - you deserve to know the truth. Is it a deal breaker? ANY lies, including lies of omission, should be deal breakers.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 7:54 PM, Tuesday, September 3rd]

I was not going to reply to this thread but I could not get it out of my head. I would be very concerned if my WH could not admit who his AP was. That would create way too many negative scenario’s in my head about who she could be. How can have closure if you don’t know especially since you now know he lied to protect the identity of her previously by saying he didn’t know?!

Also just because he was drunk does not give him the right to be abusive towards you and I noticed he blamed for having the affair. Sorry mate but this is not ok. If he can’t have a drink and not turn into this person maybe he should consider giving it up. And as for threatening you for divorce I would have told him to pack a bag and get the hell out then. Call his bluff!

He needs to know not telling you the name is a dealbreaker. It is question number one. Completely unacceptable not to answer it. You have more leverage now than you ever will again. You need to use it now. Get the name.

OBS deserves to know. He is denying that to do two things.

Keep AP a available.

Avoid the consequences of his actions.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 12:08 AM, Monday, September 2nd]

As someone 4 years post D day, I think wanting to know identity of OW is totally normal. For example, she may be able to see your public FB, LinkedIn, Insta, etc…you have the right to block her anywhere you can. I experienced this myself. My WH, is not on social media, he did not realize the reality that I (thought I was a happily married woman) had many photos of us she could see. When I loaded into the OW FB, she had pic of my husband!!!

He needs to allow you to know who she is. That is more than fair. If he is still holding out on that, he’s not understanding your pain (in my opinion).

There are bumps in the road on the reconciliation journey. But things like :knowing who the AP was, both agreeing that any opposite sex friendships are either not cool or discussed openly, plus anything that makes sense to you, are fair.

He may not understand that you might be "on display" to her without your being allowed to know who she is and who she is connected to, who may be in your sphere.

Hugs. It’s a hard time you’re in. I’m
Glad you’ve found this site.

Thanks so much for your responses. They gave me the courage to state to him this morning that this knowledge was a dealbreaker and that he owed me the truth, not her the secret. He accepted this. He has said he will tell me tonight before we go to MC. I feel so much lighter and did not realise this was a massive hurdle of trust I was trying to get over.

We shall see if he has the guts to do this or if his self-protection kicks in.
It is highly ironic, and obvious, that he expects me to trust him when he has been proven to cheat, betray and lie, yet will not trust me with this information when I have never betrayed his trust. It’s a power play.

Thanks again. Will update.

It is highly ironic, and obvious, that he expects me to trust him when he has been proven to cheat, betray and lie, yet will not trust me with this information when I have never betrayed his trust. It’s a power play.

💯

Well done! Way to stand up for yourself. You deserve to know as much about the A as you decide. This is not his to control.

I also recommend making it crystal clear to him that lies are dealbreakers. You can’t rebuild the beauty that has been destroyed with an active liar.

His slimy way to excuse not telling me before, was that he lied about her name on DDay (thank heavens I DIDN’T intend to pursue her and go after some innocent person with that name!) then, after a few weeks, read ‘How to Heal’ and told me he would be honest with anything I asked from then on. Obviously, I couldn’t go back through every single question again, checking what was a lie and what wasn’t. He said: ‘Well, you never asked again.’
I DID actually ask him if he had lied about anything else, to which he said ‘no’.
Low quality.
I do feel empowered by this, and every lie just stalls or even shuts down what was a very willing path to R on my side. Why don’t WSs just take the advice and stop lying early on?! And, sorry, here is a rant: why was he willing to take such a risk to have the A, but is not willing to take the risk of telling the truth now?!
Rant over.

Obviously, I couldn’t go back through every single question again, checking what was a lie and what wasn’t.

Yes you can. Or you can one better; tell him to write out a highly detailed timeline of the affair which will be checked with a polygraph for authenticity. It had damn well better be the truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth. Otherwise you are done.

And you can rant WAY more than that, friend. I did about 20 pages worth on the regular This is a perfect place to vent the toxins in your soul. We all understand.

He has said he will tell me tonight before we go to MC.

He should have told you immediately. By allowing him to stall, you’ve given him time to warn his AP, get their stories straight, and concoct more lies.

I’d like to gently steer you from the AP to face his alcohol abuse.

But before we go there, yes, do find out his AP’s name. I was relieved to have to have my husband confirm to me her name. And he admitted she was the one he invited to our home for a supper while they were in affair mode. You know it is a simple answer. A name. It takes one second to answer. That’s all. And how you choose to react to that name is up to you. It is not up to him to dictate to you how you should feel, react etc.. i asked a lot of questions about his relationship with her. A lot over three years.

Your husband is protecting himself not her, by not divulging her name and lying.to you. This has nothing to do with her, but everything to do with him.
He has secrets, that’s on him. He lies that’s on him. And he seems to say ´all the correct things’….leads me to wonder how sincere he is, or is he great at ´parroting’ infidelity literature. He drinks to a drunken state, that is totally on him. He has an addiction so it would seem.

Which brings me to that…alcohol abuse. I speak from experience, my husband would get drunk every night at home during his affair. The two addictions were related. Twice he was abusive to me in that state. I was walking on eggshells.

He went through withdrawal during the first year of our r. Six years out, he has about three drinks a month. On separate days. And when he goes beyond, I remind him. I do not tolerate more. He knows it. He may be unhappy about this, but hey, it’s my well being at stake here.

Your well being is most important. Words mean nothing, actions do.

An action for your well being is for him to stop his alcohol abuse. maybe with professional help. Maybe even yourself get some guidelines on how to live with one who abuses alcohol. I did because one CANNOT speak rationally with A DRUNK.

To me, your husband has issues, problems, insecurities, and without insulting he does it seems to have grown up.

Do what looks right for you. Act how it looks right for you. And we do support you fully on this site.

Wishing you courage and patience.

Notaboringwife; thanks. It is some consolation that he came home the next day with lots of non-alcoholic beer. He knows drinking leaves him depressed and nasty.
I agree with you, and it is nice to hear someone validate my thoughts. Thanks again.

Delaying the unmasking of the OW is unacceptable. It gives him time to warn the OW and get their stories straight.
Nope nope nope. Another HUGE red flag. This time it proves he has so much to hide.
Good luck.

No one says, "ok I will tell you tonight the name of the AP." Without a reason for the delay.
There’s more here you don’t know and he’s using that time like others said, to get their stories straight. Probably also giving the AP time to warn her husband about that "crazy lady"
He absolutely is prioritizing her and himself over you.
I would let him have it in your counseling session with all that the commentators here have said about this.

I wouldn’t like the delay either. I would figure out what calls he made today.