SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So my WH has been a pretty good WS, if there is such a thing. I really can’t complain about his behaviour since D-Day except for one omission of truth about going to a soccer game 🙄He has done all the right things and always accepted responsibility while trying to figure out what his issues are.

BUT even when your WS is doing everything right how do you know you truly want to stay? How long did it take the decision to leave or stay?

I know if this was my marriage before his A I would have been happy as a pig in mud. But it’s hard to be happy with a marriage that is only better after an affair.

Not sure if it’s because I’m a week or so out from the first anniversary of D-Day that’s making me think like this but I am curious to know if others still left even though they had ‘good’ WS’s.

I could have written this myself! First DD anniversary was 8/7 this year.

I know if this was my marriage before his A I would have been happy as a pig in mud. But it’s hard to be happy with a marriage that is only better after an affair

Exactly this!
I read this on SI somewhere yesterday I think, the "specialness" is gone. Sorry I don't have any answers for you, but I just had to reply because I feel the same.

A couple of points:

IMHO infidelity should ALWAYS be a dealbreaker.
However – once one deal is off the table you can strike a new deal...

You would be well within your rights and probably do all stakeholders a favor in saying something like:
Your affair killed our marriage. We might legally still be married, but I still have doubts as to if we have a future as husband and wife. While I’m unclear about that I am willing to remain legally married, and to work towards emotional reattachment. I think it would be best for us to have professional guidance (MC) to reach some milestones that help us/me decide if we are making progress, and if I really want to give you the emotions a spouse should have.

Then the two of you define what needs to be done, both individually and as a couple, and set off on the journey. There is no absolute or foregone conclusion that simply because your spouse isn’t cheating and maybe helps with the chores that the marriage survives.

Second:
It’s NEVER better because of the affair. It’s better because of the WORK you two do to make it better. That work could have been done without infidelity ever entering the equation.
To use a parable: At your annual physical that you have ignored for five years your doctor points out that if you continue smoking, drinking gallons of coffee, eating unhealthy, a sedate lifestyle full of stress and never exercising you might have a year left to live.
So... You go get a gym-membership. You get a bunch of healthy-living cookbooks. You get a good overview of your finances and even buy some great running shoes...
None of that will help your health though...
It’s not until you go to the gym and start the exercises, tie on those running shoes and jog your first mile, start eating salmon and greens, go on a budget and clear up your finances, declutter your life and destress... THAT is when things improve.

Maybe – if you do this for 3 years – you might be contemplating how great your life is. How you can now sleep 8 hours straight, jog three miles, do pushups and all that... But you would NEVER say something like "Thank God I let myself slip into such a sad state because that made me improve my life", but rather be grateful for the work you have done.

I had a terrible WW and gave her 6 months to prove to me that she could do the work. Well, deep down, I knew she was incapable of doing what needed to be done, since she had never done anything in her life without being pushed. And I was not about to push anymore. She broke it; she fixes it.

I did buy books, send her articles and podcasts, all of which remained unread and unviewed. I think in her mind, not cheating anymore was enough.

During this time, I prepared for a possible life without her. I exercised, bought a new wardrobe and a new car, all of whi h I put on a credit card as I knew she would have to assume 50% of the debt.

At the end of six months, I asked her a simple question: What are you doing to help me heal. She told me that she couldn't be there for me until I was in a better place, because I made HER feel too guilty. This told me everything I needed to know. She was incapable of change or growth, even now. Some people are just incurious and lack introspection.

About 5 years after I filed, I talked to her on the phone and revealed the 6 mo th timeline I had given en her but never made clear. I told her that had I revealed it, being performative in nature, she would have worked to wards the finish line and then immediately reverted to her core nature. I could hear her crying as she realized just how much she fucked things up.

My decision to D has been confirmed many times I the last 6 years, as my EXWW continues to make horrible choices in keeping with her nature. She is the quintessential dog returning to its vomit.

This whole process has taught me much about myself. First, I am a one and done guy. I cannot abide betrayal. My EXWW stated that she always knew this about me and recognized that she k ew if I ever found out about her infidelity, her M was over. That's why she begged people not to tell.

Second, I cannot abide disrespect. I have cut people out of my life who show me distrespect, usually perminantly.

It sounds like your WH is doing the work,but infidelity might be your bridge too far. And that's okay. Some people subtly or unconsciously pressure a BS to give it a chance because they ought to. Just remember, you already gave your WS a chance when he stood before family and friends and vowed to never do the exact thing that he did. You owe him nothing and if you look at your relationship now a d project it into the future, will it be what you want? If not, walk away.

Your answer is in you. Is this enough for you? If your relationship stays very positive, would you want to stay? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with your? Is your question coming from fear? Is your question coming from a gut feeling that you don't want to R? Are you in love? Do you love your H? Are you getting what you want from him?

IMHO infidelity should ALWAYS be a dealbreaker.

Yeah. I agree. The old deal included the fact that your WS was a betrayer-in-waiting. That deal is not a good one for you.

However – once one deal is off the table you can strike a new deal...

Yes, but... possible T/J - at our 1st post-d-day anniversary, 9 months out from d-day, my W wanted to celebrate. I asked her, 'Are we celebrating 9 months or 44 years?' I really couldn't celebrate 44 years, even though she was an ideal WS starting on d-day.

As R progressed, though, I found myself reframing the A as a wound that healed. It seemed like a deal breaker, and we did add and remove some important things to our deal, but I now view our relationship as one continuous, evolving deal. I took on that view about 4 years out from d-day. In any case, by our 47th, I felt as if we had been married 47 years, not 4. I include this possible T/J because I'm still puzzled by the evolution of my thinking. End T/J.

My reco is to give yourself permission to D and to R and to gather more info before you decide. Give up trying to control the outcome. Find out if one solution seems best for a few weeks on end, or for whatever is log enough to give you confidence that that's the solution you want.

Doubting the success of R when you're a year out seems healthy to me. A year is simply not long enough to know if one's WS will change from cheater to good partner.

Keep looking inside for your answer. Really, you'll know when you know.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:47 PM, Wednesday, August 21st]

I'm not in R and never really was as I experienced False R. My xWS was also not remorseful and was emotionally and psychologically abusive, but besides those factors was the one that I was never going to be letting my guard down, forgiving or even possibly being vulnerable ever again with him. I was repulsed by him and had no respect. In a nutshell it was an absolute dealbreaker for me and I am not a person who gets over being slighted. I seem to always hold a grudge towards those who have betrayed me. For all those reasons I decided it ultimately was a dealbreaker and am now in D process (should be final any day now).

It's been far too long a journey to be on. I wasted many years hoping to save my M and it proved to be impossible. If there is one thing I could tell my former self would have been to leave after the first time. It never got better for me.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:20 PM, Thursday, August 22nd]

Webbit-

One thing I have learned about you is you are already whole without him. Maybe it was your way of dealing with the lousy marriage before the A. That you simply pursued your interests and other relationships regardless of what he was doing.

My experience is this- and it may not be yours- but the special feelings, the tenderness, that isn’t something that is there for a long time in the wake of an affair. It’s something you both have to work towards. That’s why I think bigger’s advice about being honest and perhaps seeking outside help or even just working towards it together is a solid one of you don’t already know you want a separation or divorce.

For us, it took effort for making quality time and trying new things together. And the other thing is as life sling things at is and we worked as a team together on those things and made it us against the problems, we learned to rely on each other in a way we never have.

I think it would be a rare situation for someone to feel the specialness had returned after a year. I do think it’s possible for one to still see their marriage as beautiful and special but it takes time. Time for new history to be built over the demolition of the marriage. Time to appreciate the true reasons you eventually chose to stay.

I am in no way trying to talk you into that outcome, only you can decide what is best for you. But I am saying at a year out what you feel is completely normal and to be expected.

I decided it was a deal breaker when my exh turned into the man I always thought he was, and I still felt next to nothing. Plain of flatness for several years and it was no longer fair to either of us.

It still brings tears to my eyes almost 10 years after the divorce.

At one point a few months(?) after dday I suddenly remembered a joking...haha, not joking, I am serious as F%$k... conversation when we were dating/newly moved in together...that if I ever caught him cheating his shit would be in the driveway. He completely agreed.

I should have listened to my own words. Cheating is indeed a dealbreaker for me.

Thanks all for you reply’s.

@bigger I think I should have worded my question to ask how did you decide between R or D as I completely agree it is a dealbreaker. And I also didn’t mean that the marriage was better because of the affair but more meant that I hate the thought of my marriage having any infidelity even if it ends up happy in the end.

JSG and CBS - I am sorry you had such awful WS’s.

Annie - this is exactly what I am afraid of. I try to reconcile but then feel nothing. What a waste of time? Do you regret trying regardless?

H/O - I am trying to do all those things but as stated above what if it’s all for nothing in the end. Is he even worth the risk?

Sisoon - I know the answer is only mine to decide but shit it’s hard. I try really hard to not think of the outcome but if there is no future what even is the point?

With this being 1st anniversary of affair month I’ve realised what a busy month August is for us as a family. And there are so many memories of all the extra things I did on my own last year for our family. Organised a family weekend away, costumes for anchool events, getting tickets for a concert for a future date night and the list goes on. All the while he was living his best life with AP sexting, making out and having sex and reaping the rewards of both lives.

I’m really feeling all the hates at the moment. I can barely be bothered talking to him and it’s really impacting life all over again.
#infidelitysucks

Adding a thought I have about deal breakers...
I'm struggling with myself on this deal breaker more honestly. I made it VERY clear that any more secrets would be a deal breaker for me. Yet here I am. A HUGE secret and I'm still here. This is something I'm struggling to move past. I'm not sure if it's "carried shame"? Not shame for what he did, shame for not staying true to my own word and boundary. Any tips on that?

H/O - I am trying to do all those things but as stated above what if it’s all for nothing in the end. Is he even worth the risk?

So let me reframe this question for you.

Is what you want worth the risk?

I think this decision depends on what it is you really want.

I would write a pros of divorcing and a pros of staying. See which one resonates with you more. (And maybe give it a few weeks if you are at your dday anniversary) SKIP writing the cons. Make this about what you can see as positive outcomes for ei ether situation, because those are going to be more important than logistics. Pros are heart, cons are obstacles to what the heart wants. If the heart wants something you can overcome the obstacles. Well, at least your own, the parts you have control of.

Decide what you would want under ideal circumstances (besides anything involving a Time Machine)

Either path is going to take a lot of effort. Which set of pros makes you feel like your energy would be more worthwhile if it landed exactly how you wanted it to.

I get you don’t trust him, but if you take the risk of reconciliation do it because YOU want to see what happens, what can be improved. Then it’s not wasted time because you followed what you wanted to see happen. It’s not on you if he can’t make it happen on his side.

If you think divorce is more appealing, that might very well be the right answer too. After all, you have spent a lot of time in this unsatisfying relationship and then he went and had an affair. It might just not be worth it to you to salvage.

Give yourself permission to choose, and know that you can choose something different tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, 5 years from now. You hold the power of making what you want your life to be - and you get to choose who you want to share it with. Who is worthy of your time and effort.

It’s probably still not going to be an immediate answer for you. But what I have learned is hold the question and your intuition will start answering. And forget if he is worth it. Think about how worth it you are to do what you want to do. Clarity will come from that. I have been asking myself a question for months now- it’s not regarding my marriage, or nearly as painful - but it’s a hard decision that has multiple ways it can land. And recently I realized stop trying to decide on an outcome (and all the ways I was not in control of it) and decide to start thinking in terms of what would I like to see ultimately happen? Because the more I look for evidence of the answer, the more discerning whether it’s unfolding is in alignment with what I want.

I do think getting the feelings back (especially if they haven’t been there for a long time) can be possible. But it does take a long time. He has to be consistent in his efforts and if he does that a new him will emerge and I think it has to be undeniable. You may find version 2.0 a lot easier to feel attracted to. And if he doesn’t do that, and you invest more of your time to find that out- how would you feel? Would you see positives in that outcome or only negative?

I am not suggesting I know any of these answers, just telling you some of the things that has helped me gain clarity over time.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:26 AM, Saturday, August 24th]

I had to fight against myself to R. Every fiber of my bring was to D.

But I learned a few things.

First I needed to be strong. I needed to be able to be happy w/ him or w/out him.

Second his poor choices were his poor choices. I had no part in any of his decisions to cheat. And he had to accept that. He tried to say it was a "we" thing. As in "we" were disconnected blah blah blah.

Third I had to decide if there was any hope to remain married and happy. And if changes were made by him, would it be enough.

Luckily we survived it. But I’m not the same person and neither is he. And together we are happy and still live each other.

It’s hard not to live in the past though. And moving past the betrayal was not easy.

Thank you H/O - I always appreciate your input. Not trying controlling the outcome is so hard. But wanting an outcome and striving for it is something I can control - you are right.

And 1stWife - I know I can be happy when married to him. But I’m definitely scared of giving it a go and it fail. I would then feel like it wasn’t worth it and a failure. So hard 😔

Webbit- I am right there with you….DDAy 1 yr anniversary is 9/3. I was fortunate in that my WS was the "poster boy" for what to do right when there has been betrayal- full disclosure, immediate remorse, never once faltering…

Yet still, here I am, looking at this person who I once loved so much ( like you- happy as a pig in mud) married 24 years, and now he is different and I see him differently. I see him as weaker…..and our relationship is obviously no longer what I used to say "rock solid" ….we also used to say all the time "he’d never cheat on me" and he would joke "Ive got all I can handle!" He’s stopped drinking, lost 25 lbs, gone to IC - he’s the man I always wanted instead of a bit of a fixer upper. But Im left still feeling that remaining here I will loose a part of myself. I’m making a sacrifice. Im "taking the bullet’ to protect my young adult children….and that doesn’t feel good :( I literally am not sure what I want for the rest of my life…..I’m 58……and what I “wanted” is now gone so need to figure out what I WANT now.

[This message edited by SatyaMom at 12:43 PM, Saturday, August 31st]

I'm writing to add:

A lot of us experience the back and forth, back and forth between umpteen actions at first. Eventually, however, some resolutions start disappearing, and we find our minds and hearts settling on one resolution or another.

For example, I wanted R from the start, and I committed to R after I saw my W's consistent commitment to R for 90 days. I hope I read The1stWife right; I read her to say she thought D would be her resolution and then decided to D. A number of our fellow members wanted R and eventually realized D was a better choice.

But figuring out what one wants will always take longer than anyone wants it to take. It takes time - IMO it should probably take years - to determine if R will work. Sometimes it takes years to realize R won't work. Sometimes one knows D is right quickly but sometimes, it goes slowly

IOW, I expect you'll eventually find yourself making a good decision for you - if you let it develop naturally. The more 'shoulds' you remove from your thinking and feelings, the better the decision and the faster it will come.

JMO.

But the decision ALWAYS takes longer than anyone thinks it should.

So give yourself a lot of breaks ... and remove as much time pressure as you can.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:37 PM, Saturday, August 31st]

A more in depth description of the events that tipped the scales for me is on my profile, but the cliff notes is that we had booked a once in a lifetime trip to celebrate our 25th anniversary. Think South Pacific with the tiki huts over the water. Then she had the affair. Against her wishes and our short term MC who thought it would bring us together, I canceled the trip.

Five years later she came to me all excited with plans for the same kind of trip, although not to the same place for our 30th. She had everything laid out with brochures of a beautiful hotel on an amazing island. She did a ton of work on it. Instead of being excited the reality was in 5 years my mindset hadn’t changed and this was the last thing I wanted to do.

Though she did almost everything right, the reality was our marriage was a shell of itself. I went from a a fun loving spouse to one who though not mean, was cold. She went from a full partner to someone with no confidence and terrified of ever making a wrong decision. The sex which was once passionate, now was just a release for me.

This was all on me. Unlike others here who worked to reinvent their marriage, I just didn’t care. I think if my mindset and ego were more manageable, combined with what she was willing to do, things might have been better. But like I said, I just didn’t care so it was easy to make that impulsive decision to tell her right after she presented the plans that I was done.

Reading enough here the path back is after infidelity is rough. It takes hard work to restore what was so tarnished. Both parties need to commit. I think in some ways it’s tougher for the BS to do that. The WS realizes the F uped and has a clearer path. The BS has less of a roadmap. But if both aren’t pulling 100% things are probably doomed.

The question is not so much what his commitment level is, but what is yours

For me, idealistically, infidelity is a deal breaker plain and simple. Yet...here I am in reconciliation and overall happy with my life.

At the end of the day, that old Ann Landers question kept circling around in my head "are you better off with him or without him". So far, that answer is with him.

To me, if that should change, it should be beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Think Princes Bride - Dread Pirate Roberts...."good night WH, sleep well, I'll most likely D you in the morning"

I was like that a long time.

If you're asking yourself this question, good chance it was a DB. Your heart just hasn't caught up to your head yet.

A

more meant that I hate the thought of my marriage having any infidelity even if it ends up happy in the end.

I feel the same at times.

I know infidelity was an unnecessary, cruel, vile choice but…. It was not my choice and I have no responsibility whatsoever in his dumb choice. I wanted to keep our relationship pure and always worked to protect it and on my side it has always been pure and protected.

For me, although it hurts and will always do, I am so aware that if our matrimony has been "stained" with the dirt of infidelity it is not due to my choices. I was always loyal and did all I could to preserve our relationship and I need to accept that, when the success of something depends on team work, you can’t beat yourself for the unsuccessful outcome. You did your best and your spouse was an idiot. But he WAS an idiot and there is nothing you can do to fix the past. And if the present is better and the future is going to be better too than the past, is because, thank God, people can learn from their mistakes and poor choices.

I really liked the metaphor of someone getting fitter after neglecting their own health for years and risking their life.

If you stick to the idea "it shouldn’t have happened, it was avoidable and so dishonest" is infidelity magically going to disappear? No. You can work on acceptance of the past, of your spouse’s vulnerability and imperfection. You can use as much energy as you want but you will NEVER fix the past. It happened. It is part of your life. The only thing you can do is accepting it.

I always thought that focussing on the past will never make me happy, even if I divorce and find another partner. I will always know I never deserved to be betrayed and I will always know it was an unnecessary and cruel choice. But it will never get deleted from my life what ever I do. I was a victim of a stupid choice that he repeated day in, day out for years.

YOU NEED TO LET GO and embrace the new way of life, the improved relationship with that imperfect human being.

I think what it comes down to, say even with a perfect WS… doing everything right, the BS in order to stay has to give up at least some of their self respect and dignity. No way around it. Some people just can’t do that no matter what. There are plenty of other circumstances involved, there always are… but that’s my take on it.