SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's so cynical

No sir. It's just reality.

As to the real FWS here..there's no guarantee they won't cheat again either. I would be extremely shocked if the ones I'm speaking about did cheat again. But, the truth is, they might. And, I think they would understand a BS saying that.

Of course, whenever anyone here says a remorseful ws could cheat again, there's always a few who rush in, to say anyone can cheat. That's something I think people tell themselves, to feel better. I absolutely know that's not true. I could never. I KNOW this. I figured out he was up to no good, a few months before confronting. I was in deep investigation mode. Guess what? I felt horrible about gathering this info. I felt sneaky. I felt I was betraying him, by not telling him what I was doing. I was so upset about it, I wound up at the hospital, and am still dealing with the physical toll it took on me. So no. Not everyone can cheat.

When you do speak to her, don't mention this site.

What if this was my wife's only affair? How to know whether I have a choice or not? What if she does it again?

The answer to your questions will only come with time. You don't have to make any decisions right this moment. Keep that in mind, that, regardless of what anyone tells you here, your experience with your spouse will be both the same and different than our experiences.

My knee-jerk advice would be, "No children, run like hell!"

Things get a lot more complicated if you end up having children and it happens again.

If you don't want to have children, and she doesn't want to have children, you don't have that concern at this point.

The other thing to keep in mind is that whether it is her only affair, or she has had 15 affairs, doesn't really matter. What matters is all the lying, sneaking, betrayal, as a package, and what the WS does after exposure. My wife successfully gaslit me for nine years about her affair, and 8 months of that was in counselors offices. 22 years after her affair, she still does not really gather the full impact of that. Yes, she is remorseful, yes, she has done a lot of work, yes, she has not the person she was back then. But she still does not quite understand the full impact of what she did for nine years, after an affair that lasted only a few short weeks..

We will all deal with this until we die. The question is whether you deal with it in a constructive and self respectful and self protective matter or not. Whether you are with her or not.

If you have any thought of staying, you have to try to figure out whether your partner is a safe partner or not, that is the most important and most difficult question to answer. It took me and my wife going to marital counseling for over four years to figure that out. Hundreds of hours, and many many thousands of dollars, later I believe I have a safe partner, but I still have a partner that is somewhat clueless about the impact to the betrayed partner. Why stay? We have children, we had a business we were both involved in, I had to weigh the impacts on others for any decision. Despite that, several times, we came extraordinarily close to divorce.

Take it day by day, minute by minute, if you have to, and there may be days that you can only take it one second at a time, just get through those seconds, but take care of yourself.

I forgot to add, when people say things like they are "twin flames" and other crap in an affair, all that it really is just shit talk. People say all kinds of shit when they're having affairs like a bunch of teenagers in love.

It's the actions that matter, far more than the words. The affair begins and ends with the lying and the betrayal, it's not the sex that's the issue, it's the lying, and the betrayal.

All you really know at this point is that you are married to someone who can lie to your face about where they have been, who they have been with, and what they have been doing.

I would like to gently suggest to lower expectations to near 0 and put the R fantasies aside for now. One of the reasons beeing that you have been improving your mood with meditation and NC for the last month. We hope she was improving her mood with ethical healing literature, but what is the probability?

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 10:45 PM, Thursday, November 9th]

So sorry twinflamed.

Good for you for removing yourself from your situation and from her. It is something I wished I had done after my dday.

I’ll be honest, no children and you are still young, I would divorce. I decided to reconcile and while we are good with and for each other, the relationship between my wife and I is forever changed. We have a son, who was younger at dday, and financial entanglements made reconciliation a more attractive options. Don’t get me wrong, I love my wife very much, but this is something that is permanent. I lost my Dad nearly 2 years ago and the pain from my wife’s betrayal was far worse for me.

I’m really sorry, the isn’t a "good" choice to make. Just make sure you take enough time to make the right decision for you.

Really smart move to decompress at the yoga retreat. I’m a big believer in the yoga practice to center the mind and body. However, after that you will need to confront your new reality. You first need to figure out what you might be leaving the marriage over, or what you would be reconciling from. It will take some time to get to the truth. My suggestion is you ask her for a timeline of what took place. How long, where, who knew etc. I needed to know much more like sex acts, but it comes with risks. I got them and they were brutal. You should tell her that you will be following up the timeline with a polygraph test( even if you don’t mean it) and that if you discover any lies in the timeline it’s over. Don’t pass go, and head right to divorce. You still will get lies, but probably less of them.

The twin flames thing is a problem. My EX had no feelings for her AP, and in fact didn’t like him much in the end. The responses you see about repeat betrayals either come from serial cheaters, or those who fall into the twin flame category where the cheaters feel that it is their destiny to be together. They may stop for awhile, but eventually the affair starts again as like I said it’s their destiny. If they are coworkers and she feels this way, she needs to leave that job like yesterday. If the work together 99.9% chance it will restart.

As to your questions about as a BS who can reconcile, there is no answer. Every person is different. There are posters here who I respect, that I still can’t figure out why they forgave. Sometimes years of cheating and being humiliated. Yet they have forgiven. I had a WS who immediately got it, did everything right, and the affair was very short lived. Yet, I’m the guy who if you fuck me over that’s it. I stayed for 5 years, but in my heart I knew it was over. She pleaded with everything she had, and I knew she woukd never cheat again, but I just couldn’t live with myself just taking it. I had become cold and hated who I was and frankly how I treated her. The most humane thing was to end it, although she didn’t see it that way. I’m probably not to popular with many of the WS here who expect that the BS should at least try, especially with a remorseful spouse. Frankly like I said, I stayed for 5 years but gave probably 3% to try to fix things. What a lot of WS don’t understand is after an affair you ow them nothing. It’s a gift if you take them back

You need to look into yourself and try to figure out which guy you are. It won’t be easy, and will take some time.

Have you heard from her at this point? If she was smart she would have quit her job by now. Use the breathing techniques to keep yourself calm.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 2:59 AM, Friday, November 10th]

I wouldn’t consider R if I didn’t have kids. Firstly because if there are kids involved they have to be considered. A cheating divorce is always hard on the kids. But also when there are kids infidelity is more understandable (not excusable or acceptable in any way). Life is busy and hard with kids, it’s difficult to make time for your partner. If there’s no kids there really is no excuse. It’s just you and your partner. I would really run for the hills.

[This message edited by Jajaynumb at 10:39 AM, Friday, November 10th]

I wouldn’t consider R if I didn’t have kids. Firstly because if there are kids involved they have to be considered. A cheating divorce is always hard on the kids. But also when there are kids infidelity is more understandable (not excusable or acceptable in any way). Life is busy and hard with kids, it’s difficult to make time for your partner. If there’s no kids there really is no excuse. It’s just you and your partner. I would really run for the hills.

I agree that if it is early in a marriage and no kids, one should cut their losses and get out. I certainly would have.

I disagree that cheating with kids is more "understandable". Sure, life is harder and kids are a "natural barrier" to intimacy and one on one time. On the other hand, just as you have said, "they have to be considered". Even before you cheat. The stakes are MUCH higher. When I was tempted to cheat (while my wife was cheating and treating me like shit), the thing that stopped me cold (besides my own morals) were thinking about my kids. The inverse is almost true for me. I could almost "understand" thinking you married too young, married the wrong person, didn’t "sow your oats", etc. Once kids coming along, you should be totally invested.

One of the most hurtful parts of my WW’s infidelities are she cheated while pregnant. That should be the time you are closest to your spouse IMO. I am flabbergasted that my wife chose to have a child with me while in the middle of an affair (dna tested, she is my child). Now, I am haunted by the fact my daughter wasn’t conceived in love.

So for me, it is NEVER understandable or excusable. When there are kids, there are even more lives to destroy.

[This message edited by ImaChump at 1:35 PM, Friday, November 10th]

I just want to say--- please don't give any credibility to the idea that AP is a twin flame.

May be you are right, but still, it doesn't make this situation any less painful for me. I Need time to digest it.

Do you still love her? Was your marriage pre-affair a really good one? If so, then it might be worth saving. If not, why try?

1. Yes, I do.

2. For me, my marriage was good. I was happy. There were many ups and downs. Tragedies and setbacks. But, I never saw them as anything other than opportunities to grow. I always felt blessed for having her in my life. Considering my troubled past and past anger issues, she really took a big leap of faith when she agreed to date and eventually marry me. I could have been an

abusive husband who would beat her. It was her gamble. I was grateful to her for believing in me.

It seems like you don't know much about what happened in the A yet because you left immediately. Is that true?

Yes.

The triggers will really do a number on your emotions.

Thank you for the words of caution. I will keep it in my consideration.

Sisoon is correct in that it takes both part

ies willing and capable of R.

You are right. I will know if I am capable only when I go back to her.

If I have this right, you don't know if she moved in with the AP, will be waiting with divorce papers and the sheriff, has gotten a restraining order against you, or drained the financial accounts and sold everything.

You don't know if she quit her job, or checked herself into a mental institution, written a complete timeline for you, has sought IC, has reached out to your friends and family, or much else.

No. Fortunately, my situation is not that dramatic. She hasn't done any of that. I have been in touch with my wife. I have talked to her at least 8-10 times since I came here. All my conversations were brief and nothing affair related. I have asked my dear sister to stay with my wife while I am here. She knows about the affair. I sent my sis there for 1. To look after my wife and to make sure she eats and sleeps well and doesn't commit any self harm. 2. To keep an eye on her in case she might do something stupid, that would hurt me.

My wife has taken 2 weeks leave from her job and has been staying in the house all these days. My sis keeps me updated. So, nothing to worry about on that front. I also requested my sis to be civil and respectful towards my wife and, if possible, take her out once in a while. Asked her not to talk about the affair unless my wife initiates it. I don't want to entangle my sister in my mess. She has already done more than she should have. God bless my sister.

Will you be an excellent provider? 

So, if I am an excellent provider, then will that save my next marriage if I decide to D my current wife?? I mean, I provided her with everything that I should as a partner. I tried providing her with everything that she asked for. I might have failed a few times, but there were no major complaints from her side as far as I remember. Money has never been an issue for both of us. We both come from fairly wealthy families.

If you are the type of guy who has women dripping all over you, it might be a little easier to pull up anchor.

Fortunately, I am not that type of guy. I never liked that game. I am a little old school when it comes to romance and relationships. I prefer to know people better first and then find them attractive. Even in my past worst days, I preferred this approach for dating. I hope it makes sense. No offense to you, sir.

Finally, I think for those who still wish to not give up completely but can't reconcile the marriage, a divorce with the possibility of rekindling the relationship after the dust has settled can be the way to go.

Although it is an interesting approach, it will work only if the divorce goes smoothly and doesn't turn us into bitter enemies.

I was so upset about it that I wound up at the hospital and am still dealing with the physical toll it took on me.

O Gosh... I hope you are doing well now.

I wonder why the stress of the affair life doesn't put an adulterer in the hospital? Don't they feel stressed out, anxious, guilty, and villainous for what they are doing to their family? Its mind boggling!!

When you do speak to her, don't mention this site.

Obviously.

What matters is all the lying, sneaking, betrayal, as a package, and what the WS does after exposure.

Yes. Will be mindful of this. Thank you.

I still have a partner who is somewhat clueless about the impact on the betrayed partner. 

Is it possible for them to realize the full impact of their betrayal? Is it reasonable for BS to have that kind of expectation on them??

We hope she was improving her mood with ethical healing literature, but what is the probability?

Well, zero!! So far, she and my sis haven't told me anything that hints at her doing something to improve her.

I lost my Dad nearly 2 years ago, and the pain from my wife’s betrayal was far worse for me.

I also have a similar experience. My wife's betrayal stung me harder than my dear grandma's passing away. Nobody dies in infidelity, and yet the pain is unimaginable. Sorry for the loss of your father.

You first need to figure out what you might be leaving the marriage over or what you would be reconciling from. It will take some time to get to the truth.

Noted.

My suggestion is you ask her for a timeline of what took place. How long, where, who knew, etc.

That's the plan.

I needed to know much more like sex acts, but it comes with risks.

I don't think I want to do this. I mean, I do want to know if she had sex?, was it more than once? Did they use condoms? etc. But, I don't want to know the details of their sex. It feels like a rabit hole with little payoff. More harm than reward.

I had become cold and hated who I was, and frankly, how I treated her.

This is my fear. I don't want to be that guy. I have been angry and toxic for the most part of my early life. I left that life a decade ago. I don't want to be that again, especially not to my wife.

Frankly, like I said, I stayed for 5 years but gave probably 3% to try to fix things. What a lot of WS don’t understand is that after an affair, you ow them nothing. It’s a gift if you take them back

I feel like disagreeing with this statement but I can't, because I haven't yet been in the place where you have been, haven't yet experienced what you have gone through and so I lack the wisdom now that you carry.

It’s just you and your partner. I would really run for the hills.

It's not entirely true. It's not just me and her in our family. There's also our love relation that we fed and nurtured for the past 8 years. I know it's damaged now, but I don't know for sure if it's dead.

I always believed that relation is the first child of any couple. It needs to be fed and nurtured well. Relations do grow like kids. From immature and impatient early nascent stage to stable and reliable older mature stage. It grows from being nurtured and protected by the couple to nurturer and protector of the couple. For this, couple are expected to be good at parenting of their relation. It's difficult to abandon this child. 😕
My point is that I cant RUN. I can only crawl.

I am flabbergasted that my wife chose to have a child with me while in the middle of an affair 

It's like reading a horror story. I don't know what's more horrible, cheating on a pregnant wife or wife cheating while she is pregnant??!!

I agree that if it is early in a marriage and no kids, one should cut their losses and get out. I certainly would have.

I am weighing on this option, too.

[This message edited by twinflamed at 4:23 PM, Friday, November 10th]

Do not have sex with her until you decide what you want to do going forward

It's like reading a horror story. I don't know what's more horrible, cheating on a pregnant wife or wife cheating while she is pregnant??!!

Well, it probably depends on the gender of the BS. Both are horrible. The only thing that could have been worse for me is finding out my daughter is not my child after 35 years. Some men on here have had that exact experience…..

Unfortunately, my WW has experience on both sides of that coin. Not only did she cheat while pregnant with BOTH our kids, her longest LTA AP’s wife was 4 months pregnant with their first child when the affair started. The baby was delivered, and turned 1 during the affair. As a husband and father, I am horrified for the OBS and my wife’s role in that.

I picked a real “winner”, huh? Don’t be “me”….

[This message edited by ImaChump at 6:04 PM, Friday, November 10th]

I am a long term R survivor. I use the term survivor on purpose. The reason being is because R was the hardest thing I have had to do in my life. I am grateful that I did it but I would have much rather never had to go through it. My story is out there if you are interested in the details. I won't recount them here. It appears to have taken on a life of its own. Anyway, I know we were the exception and not the rule with our success.

I'm not going to talk you out of R or divorce. It's your decision and your life. I am going to point out some things you may want to ask/think about.

Can you live with knowing/not knowing the details? This is crucial because each has its own way of slowly wearing you down. Decide no now if you want but reserve the right to ask later.

Has she had any contact with the AP since you left? If so, why?

Are you really willing to walk away from this marriage and does she believe you?

Is she capable and willing to put in the hard work to save your marriage? Are you able to see that she broke this marriage and not you? Many waywards talk of issues in the marriage that "made them do it". This is unacceptable. She has to own it. And you have to let her own it. You cannot be the knight in shining armor that rescues her from her pain and troubles on this. I know from reading your replies you absolutely are the man that would protect his wife no matter. But in this she has to work. She has to fight on her own. And when appropriate you join in. But not at first. She has to show through her actions how remorseful she is. Is the marriage important enough to her to save? Are you important enough for her to fix herself and help you heal without any promises that your marriage will survive?

Who else knew of the affair? Family? Friends? Coworkers? How will you handle that? They have proven to be enemies of your marriage.

There are no nuanances here. Everything has been boiled down to black or white because of the affair. The affair is over or it's not. She is all in to save the marriage or not. People were friends to your marriage or not. Absolutes can be hard to deal with in life. But many of your decisions in the near future will need to be absolute at least in the short term. You have already experienced that by removing yourself physically from your wife. I see that as a step that for you absolutely had to take place for you not to react in a violent way. Good call. Keep that mindset. Take decisive action now to get room to think and react without too much emotion.

For example, initiating divorce now if you live in an area that requires a lengthy process is not a bad idea. It starts the process while leaving room to begin repairing the marriage without drawing it out if R fails. This is not an admission of your resolve to leave the marriage but an acknowledgement of the damages she has done. Just an example.

Your pain will ease in time. She has shown you what she is capable of and now you must decide if she is worthy of your forgiveness. Only you can know that.

I am a Christian. Something these days gets ridiculed and chastised but I do not care. It is what anchors my being. I will pray that you receive the peace and guidance that you need.

I gave my husband the gift of R, but it took time and self-reflection to make an ongoing decision. I found that taking the actions of sitting still, meditation and IC were necessary parts of my decision-making process. The most important factor in my decision to R or not to R was what actions my husband took in order to continue in a marriage to me. He was a liar, so I could not trust what he said. His actions told me that he might be a candidate for R. He willingly took the actions necessary for the gift of potential R and willingly accepted my requirements. He still accepts them 8 years later. There were some bumps in the road at first as he was in affair fog, but he has been able to abide by the deal breakers I insisted upon. I decided to give R a shot, but it was very conditional and it still is. I am very honest about the fact that I might not be able to stay and that this decision could come at any time. This is really scary for him, but it is a consequence to his actions and is frankly not my problem. It is his responsibility to learn to be a better and safer partner. He understands that, in the end, I have to do what I think is right for me. Our marriage has changed in some fundamental ways, but it was necessary if I was to continue to participate in it.

That being said........

BS do not ever get over affairs. We learn to live with them. The "living with them" part is hard, really hard. There are triggers and mind movies and hyper vigilance and all sorts of other PTSD symptoms to deal with. An affair is a trauma. One that was perpetrated upon you by someone you loved and trusted. The idea that a WS could say they love you and then hurt you in a way that only your worst enemy would stoop to is very difficult to reconcile. IC for me was vital to learning to live with an affair and the resultant trauma. In the end, I had to make a decision that the marriage was worth the effort. It is one day at a time. Yes, there is always the possibility of another affair, and I would say that it is a lot more likely for a Wayward, but the truth for me is that anyone I might make a relationship with could be a WS. The key for me is to have enough self-respect and self-love to demand what I deserve and to move on when I do not get it. For example, I will not tolerate any deceit. That is my #1 dealbreaker. Thus far, I feel like I have gotten rigorous honesty. If I find that I have been lied to, in ANY capacity, I am out.

I can say that right now, I am content in the marriage. I cannot and will not be a detective and monitor everything he does, although I do ask for his devices now and then and they are immediately relinquished. I have put things into place to make myself as safe as possible. I rely on my husband's adherence to the requirement I made for R to determine my course of action. I am financially sound, happy with myself. I will not be a victim to infidelity again. If I see any whiff of inappropriate behavior, I am out. That knowledge goes a long way in helping me stay with my FWS.

If I gave you any advice, it would be to watch your WW actions and to allow yourself to feel your feelings. It is ok if you cannot continue the marriage. It is also ok if you try and it does not work. It is ALSO ok if you want to R. Be true to yourself. Your WS made decisions about your life without consulting you. Therefore, you are free to make decisions without consulting her.

I chuckled at this statement. You wont believe this but I did actually RUN on DDay. When I was leaving for my friend's house, my wife became hysterical and tried to stop me from leaving. So, I literally had to run to my car.

Because she need the comfort of a secure marriage to really enjoy her cheating. As it says many affairs end when the marriages end
this may help you Check Tenzin Palmo Jetsunma - The difference between Genuine Love and Attachment in youtube

Do not have sex with her until you decide what you want to do going forward

I think I can manage that. Actually, our sex life has been less frequent since her miscarriage. It did improve early last year but only briefly. But, can I ask why I shouldn't have sex with her?? Is it because of STD??

Can you live with knowing/not knowing the details? This is crucial because each has its own way of slowly wearing you down. Decide no now if you want but reserve the right to ask later.

This is very useful advice. I don't think I can take all at once. I also don't want to take too much time to know the details. I have to find my optimum pace.

Has she had any contact with the AP since you left? If so, why?

She did say she ended her "inappropriate friendship" and has maintained minimum contact with him at a "professional level" because of her work. She still works in the same place where he works. I don't believe it has ended. I didn't even want to ask this question to her because I knew I wouldn't believe her no matter what she answered.

Are you really willing to walk away from this marriage 

I want to say both 'yes' and 'no'. I am not sure if I can just walkaway. That's how I feel TODAY.

Does she believe you?

I didn't understand this part of the question.

Is she capable and willing to put in the hard work to save your marriage? Are you able to see that she broke this marriage and not you?

1. I don't know.
2. Yes-for the first part of the question.
I am trying but unable to - for the second part. I have this constant nagging feeling that I failed her. I feel that I didn't live up to her expectations. I feel that may be I am not man enough. May be she found a better person. May be she fell out of love with me and couldn't end this relation the right way to avoid hurting me. May be she wanted a little temporary escapism and then would come back to me when her fantasy was over. May be she loves two people at the same time and is unable to choose between them. May be her logic behind her affair was that as long as it is secret, she doesn't have to choose, and she could keep both people happy. I know I sound like I am making stupid excuses for her choice, but my mind is all over the place, and I have been losing control over my thoughts and emotions over the past three days.

Are you important enough for her to fix herself and help you heal without any promises that your marriage will survive?

I am definitely going to ask this question to her.

Who else knew of the affair? Family? Friends? Coworkers? How will you handle that? They have proven to be enemies of your marriage

I don't think anyone from family knew about her affair before dday. Now, only my sister knows because I told her. She hasn't told anyone, including her husband, because I requested her not to until I return.

I don't know about who among our friends knew about her affair. I pray nobody knew because I got pretty good friends. I don't want to lose them.

Among her coworkers, I believe many of them know or at least suspect. It was her female coworker, who few months ago got engaged to my best friend, revealed to me in August end that my wife is having an "inappropriate relation" with this guy X (her AP). She also hinted that other coworkers might know about this.

If there are any enemies of my marriage, then I will handle them the way I should. Not the Hulk way. It will be even more heartbreaking if there are such people among our families and friends. I really hope that is not the case.

For example, initiating divorce now if you live in an area that requires a lengthy process is not a bad idea. It starts the process while leaving room to begin repairing the marriage without drawing it out if R fails.

I mean, I can see it working in theory, but in practice, I find it very difficult to implement. I can start making necessary preparations for D right away, like consulting a lawyer, knowing what my financial options are for D, etc, but to actually file D while trying R seems little confusing. Won't this send mixed and confusing signals to my wife about what I want? Won't this affect R? It's like standing with each leg on two different boats moving in opposite directions. If it's not too much to ask, then can you elaborate on this?

There are triggers and mind movies and hyper vigilance and all sorts of other PTSD symptoms to deal with. 

To be honest, I haven't experienced that many triggers or mind movies. Partly because I know very little of my wife's affair and partly because I am in a very healthy place right now surrounded by good people. There are plenty of activities to do here that are healthy and provide good opportunities to escape reality. But it all ends today. I am going home tomorrow, and I hope my years of experience with yoga, meditation, and spiritual life come in handy to deal with these triggers.

The key for me is to have enough self-respect and self-love to demand what I deserve and to move on when I do not get it.

I do have enough self-respect but don't know about self-love. I was a very self-obsessed person before. I had to work on that very hard. That work might have negatively affected my self-love. There is a thin line between self-love and self-obsession. I have to walk carefully here.

I don't know what my dealbreaker is yet. I never thought I would be in this situation. So, I never gave any thoughts to what my deal breaker would or should be. I am the guy who believe it's very presumptuous for a person to declare what he will tolerate/do and what he won't in a situation where they have never been before nor have any experience of it. So, I cant say for now what is my deal breaker. But I will realize it eventually. If she continues with her affair, then I wont see that as a dealbreaker. It simply means she is choosing him over me. In that case, D is my only option left.

Check Tenzin Palmo Jetsunma - The difference between genuine love and attachment in youtube

Thank you for suggesting this. I looked on YouTube, but I only found a 2 minutes video where she only gives the summary of her philosophy of love. I confess I couldn't fully grasp the full meaning of her concept of 'genuine love'. From what I understood, her idea of genuine love is the love without expectations. So, is it not genuine love if I expect fidelity from my wife?? Is there any other platform/source where I can fully dive into that philosophy to understand it better? Thank you.

So, I am leaving tomorrow. It's time to start dealing with this mess. I hope I can manage.

I have decided to do the following things if she ends her affair. Some are optional for now. If she doesn't agree to end her affair, then D is the only option I get.

1. Ask my wife to write down the entire timeline of her affair.

How much time should I give her to do that?

2. Want to try polygraph if the situation arises. But how reliable is it? And how does it work exactly?? (Optional)

3. I am on the fence regarding her job. Should I ask her to leave her job immediately or wait until she find a job somewhere else? If she offers to leave on her own, then I will welcome it happily. But, what if she offers to work in a different department in a different building where her AP doesn't work? I can keep an eye on her through my friend's fiancé. I just don't want her career to get affected. Am I being too generous here??

4. IC for her.

5. Access to her phone and social media accounts whenever I need it.

6. Step 4, 5 and 6 from Tactical Primer

Are there any other needs that I should be adding to the list?

Meanwhile, what should I be doing to heal myself and grieve the loss of my marriage in a healthy way?? How to detach from her mess, her choices, her actions, and their consequences?

[This message edited by twinflamed at 8:18 PM, Saturday, November 11th]

She will love bomb. Smother you with affection and serve your every whim. She will predict your needs and have them ready before you even think of them. She will definitely want to be intimate, and will be very submissive when doing so.

These are all tactics to cloud your judgement. By flooding you with everything good in a relationship, she will try to coerce you to minimize the memory of her betrayal.

She will get tired of having to be so attentive to you and eventually become impatient for you to declare that it's all behind you. Then she will resent you for having teased her with R.

So don't even let it start. You need to declare clearly right from the beginning that she needs to work on herself. She needs to come fully clean about her participation in her A. If you let her slip back into old routines without any insight into her behaviour, then it's likely to happen again and next time she won't care about the harm to you.

I hope you have spent some of your time at the retreat reading some of the recommended books. You need to prepare for the likelihood that this M is over. If you aren't prepared to walk away, then she will never understand what she will lose.

Edit: She needs to admit that cheating was her decision and not your fault.

[This message edited by PickleRick at 7:10 PM, Saturday, November 11th]

Yes,she needs to leave the job immediately.

She also needs to be tested for stds. You too.

I have this constant nagging feeling that I failed her. I feel that I didn't live up to her expectations. I feel that may be I am not man enough. May be she found a better person. May be she fell out of love with me and couldn't end this relation the right way to avoid hurting me. May be she wanted a little temporary escapism and then would come back to me when her fantasy was over. May be she loves two people at the same time and is unable to choose between them. May be her logic behind her affair was that as long as it is secret, she doesn't have to choose, and she could keep both people happy. I know I sound like I am making stupid excuses for her choice, but my mind is all over the place, and I have been losing control over my thoughts and emotions over the past three days.

Gently, being betrayed hits one's self-esteem and self-love very hard. It's normal after d-day to question one's worth as a man or woman and as a human being.

If you normally doubt your worth as a human being, however, - that is, if you doubted your worth as a human being before d-day - your best path to healing is realizing you're loving, lovable and capable - all 3: loving, lovable, and capable - before deciding between D & R. If that's not coming from yoga and meditation, my reco is to find a good IC and tell them that you need to find your self-worth.

*****

I agree that D is a good choice if your W won't end her A, but if she wants R, I strongly recommend that you work on yourself before deciding what's best for you.

*****

I firmly believe that all of us can D and that all of us can R (all other things being equal - you can't R with someone who has left). I believe that most of us have a strong enough sense of self (and of self-worth) that we choose between D & R (and every other option) based on desire, how we truly feel about our WS, and how we feel about the probabilities we see for our future.

Some people make their choices out of fear and/or out of doubt about themselves as human beings (which IMO is a type of fear). IMO, thinking you 'can't' R or 'can't' D is yet a different type of fear. Healing requires conquering fear, IMO.

If a BS loves themself, however, I believe they'll make the right choice for them and hold their heads high, no matter what they choose. A BS who loves themself is almost guaranteed to make a good choice for themself, IMO.

If you don't have that sense of self that gives you courage in an uncertain life, now is a good time to develop it. All of us are loving, lovable, and capable. Knowing that at a gut level leads to the best decisions, IMO.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:32 PM, Saturday, November 11th]

Only have her leave her job if you are pretty sure you want to try R. Because you want her employed if you D; it is often beneficial financially depending on state law.