SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just don’t know if I’ll ever feel better.

Here's the thing... I suspect we all feel like our situations are the WORST ever. I know I sure did. Early on, when I'd read from the wise folks of SI, the devil in my head would say, in a million different forms, "but......"

"but they don't know what it's like when the spouse lied forever...."

"but they don't understand how wonderful my WH is/was......"

"but they don't know how lucky I am to have had him M me to begin with....."

Fill in the blanks for your particular flavor of hell... it's still nothing more than a buttload of buts

And over time, what I learned is that I would - and I did - and I do - feel better. For me, it doesn't happen by focusing on my WH. It doesn't happen even by focusing on the M. And it sure as shit doesn't happen by engaging in my own A, or seeking ego kibble & validation from others.

It happens when we take a good, solid, DEEP, look into ourselves. Into our past trauma. Into our current trauma. As completely fucked up as my WH's shenanigans are, I can actually find gratitude for the shit storm he created, in that it forced me (and I was absolutely FORCED) to dig into my own "stuff". Dday CHANGED me, in some fundamental ways. Finding my WH hanging from a noose CHANGED me as well. In both instances, I knew that I would NEVER be the person I was the moment before I had the knowledge of his As or the knowledge he'd put a noose around his neck and drop. NEVER.

So, if I'm not gonna be the person I was yesterday... then I'm gonna be a different person tomorrow. And if so, shouldn't I be taking a proactive role in forming who that person becomes? I think I should. And I am. And I fail and falter and wallow and fall back into hold habits all the damn time. While still finding ways to love myself despite my human imperfections. I am human and I am worthy, is really the epitome of what I need to know right now.

It's not my fault that I could not be the person I was yesterday.... but it is MY (and only my) responsibility to become a healthier person tomorrow.

You are human, Mickie. And you are worthy. You deserve honesty - to yourself. You deserve to care for yourself.... not with bullshit "candy" like a RA or an online EA. But with the steak that comes from digging in and finding your own value... to yourself. For yourself, etc.

To use the candy analogy, think about it: When hungry, it's no biggie to pick up a snickers bar. The second that sugar hits your mouth, your body is sending messages that this is good and good for you. But we all know it's illusion and not long lasting. But to instead satisfy that hunger with steak, well that's a whole other story - right? That satiation is not illusion... and not temporary. The "catch" is that steak takes TIME. You have to buy it... you have to season it... you have to fire up the grill... then cook it, and take the temperature, and watch it to make sure it's not too rare and not overcooked (which can cause some anxiety) ... then let it rest. Steak is NOT easy, not like a Snickers. Steak is damn hard! But it's worth it. And (to quote the hair color/cosmetic company), you are worth it too.

As frustrating and defensive as you may feel about some of the responses on this thread, look at it like this: these are all a bunch of strangers who have experienced the candy road in one form or another (either by eating it themselves or by being the person who has to clean up the vomit that came with the damn candy). And all of these folks are trying to tell you to PUT THE SNICKERS DOWN... and work on getting yourself some steak. It ain't easy, but I think most BS would say that the work they've done to get to the "steak" of their OWN healing, was worth every painful moment to get there. I do.

So, you can work to clean up the vomit from your WH's candy (and - now - the vomit from your own sugar binge) .... or you can just ignore the barf that is now all over the place, and keep buying a snickers... which is basically denying yourself the kind of sustenance that your soul NEEDS and deserves.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 2:25 PM, December 2nd, 2020 (Wednesday)]

I just don’t know if I’ll ever feel better.

You will as soon as you begin to deal with this. This is a reoccurring theme in your posts and this panic is creating undo stress and anxiety in your life which is causing you to spiral. The longer you run from it, the longer it will take. You are afraid, and understandably so, of feeling the pain. Unfortunately, the only way out is through.

My mantra for quitting smoking was “embrace the suck”. No matter how you cut, it’s going to suck for awhile. However, if you keep at it, each day it will begin to suck a little less. But you have to accept it’s going to be rough for awhile and that’s nothing to be afraid of because you CAN handle it. Believe in yourself, don’t be afraid to use support and other resources, and most importantly, cut yourself some slack because if you are truly working on it—you’ve earned it. But trust me, and everyone else who has been through it, it DOES get better.

[This message edited by KingRat at 2:35 PM, December 2nd (Wednesday)]

Yup, it's horrible. I'm sorry you are going through it. Your self worth was in the toilet and you found a quick fix for it through various interactions with other men. Even if one part of your brain looks askance at the situation, the feelings are pretty overwhelming. The easiest way to get rid of those feelings is to shine light on the situation. So for that and many other reasons you should tell your husband, give him every detail he wants, and store the rest so he can have them if he wants them. If he never wants the details, doesn't want to read the texts or see the photos, you can add oomph to getting rid of the feelings by imagining how he would react if he saw them.

Read through the survival guide and pick out strategies that work for you. I used to read through whenever I needed a new one. Something always jumped out at me. I still occasionally use a big red stop sign in my thoughts, and then recite poetry or psalms that I memorized to divert my thoughts. It takes me forever to memorize lines so that was diverting. You'll find stuff that works but it takes effort. You have to guard your thoughts like a sentinel.

My personality type is . . . .

Here's the good news. Literally anything you put after that sentence opener is *up to you.* Anything! I'm going to change your words slightly to "I'm the kind of person who . . . "

For me, I am (was) the kind of person who lies easily. Mostly by omission and hiding but I can tell a straight lie without too much discomfort. But I don't want to be that. So now I am the kind of person who is both scrupulously honest and seeks the truth. It requires daily attention and care. No problem, I can do that!

Here's another: I'm the kind of person who faces her fears. I'll keep that one, with gratitude to my parents who helped me with that trait.

Here's another: I'm the kind of person who assumes that if you are angry at me, you hate me forever. Nope, I don't want that one! I came by that belief honestly but I don't want to keep it. So I work on it. I worked on it today, in fact. My husband snapped briefly about something unimportant, I dealt with my feelings and did some self talk, and then went to him to make him feel better because he was clearly stressed about work. Voila! I am changing the kind of person I am. I am the kind of person who can see past someone's negative feelings to what they need from me. That's much better.

So what kind of person do you WANT to be? The kind of person who seeks attention from predatory/foul men who are OK with interacting with a married woman? The kind of person who sees her coping mechanisms and decides to work on better ones? The kind of person who engages in behavior that your children will be ashamed of if they find out when they are older? (Children grow up into adults with adult opinions, and they are not always as generous as parents would like them to be, especially if they were hurt in the process.) The kind of person who . . . what? You can be whatever you want. It's not easy but it's possible, and worth it. Why don't you write down what kind of person you WANT to be, and start lining up your behavior with your desires?

I haven't read the responses. This is a very triggery post for me.

Are you in therapy? If you are not, you need to be. I think you do MC, but you need individual talk therapy. I know that in MC you have been working on trying to communicate more effectively. But it seems like your marriage counselor wants you to suppress some of your anger when you are talking with your husband.

I personally think that the type of work you need to do is effective for both a BS and a WS. That is you need to get your legs under you in where the foundation of your happiness comes from.

By doing what you are doing, you are removing your own dignity which is making you feel worse about yourself. And each time you flirt with this idea you go a bit deeper and strip more of your dignity.

You are also removing more and more of your choices in the situation. Meaning, the deeper you go into this the higher you chances for divorce. You say you don't want a divorce, but you are doing everything in your power to get one.

Emotions don't really equal much. They are changeable, not reliable. It's important to feel them but not be directed by them entirely. In that way, you are like a child having a tantrum. A tantrum doesn't get the child their way. In fact, it typically works against them.

There is a book called "the power of now" and it's about being a conscientious observer of your thoughts. It's about mindfulness, tapping into the reality is really just what is happening right at the moment.

Affairs are addictive, for sure. I get it. You are in an ocean of pain and the minute something felt good and made you forget, it's easy to get lost in that feeling. But, it's not responsible to yourself. It's not going to solve your problems, it's making them so much worse.

You also can not any longer declare you don't understand your husband's actions. That is no longer true. It doesn't mean you condone them, or you forgive them, but it does mean that you know that in brokenness people look for distraction. And, our brokenness is up to each of us as individuals to work on and heal from.

So, cut it out. Full NC, block this guy. Tell your husband, agree to do individual therapy. Get proactive rather than reactive.

You do not have to stay with your husband, you are free to go. Free to divorce him and date. But you are not free to stay with him and date. Two wrongs will never make a right - you are only making this worse for yourself.

Mickie:

If you have followed me I’m sure it’s apparent how effed up my fWH’s affair has made me.

This is you, right out of the gate, not taking responsibility for YOUR affair. You are trying to wrap yourself up in victim hood, because it’s his fault not yours. Stop justifying, stop blameshifting. You were fishing on Instagram. You sought out MUlTIPLE affairs. You cannot blame this on your husband. If his affair is a dealbreaker, leave him.

Some cheaters don't want to understand just how much an affair can fuck a person up.

The truth is..you ARE a victim. Your husband betrayed you in the worst possible way. Infidelity is traumatic. It messes with every.single.part of a betrayed spouse's life.

The problem with being a cheater,is you can't blame anyone for your actions. Your husband can't blame you for his,so you can't blame him for yours.

And now,you have made him a victim as well.

You must take responsibility for what you have done. You expect him to do the same with his affair.

You will get a lot of tough,but good advice. You will also get advice from BS who are triggering, and WS who like to blame all BS for their very normal feelings after dday. Listen to those who have done the work as a wayward. Hikingout, LifeDestroyer, DaddyDom,etc. And listen to the BS who have healed,and can empathize,but also hold you accountable.

Have you blocked him yet?

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:45 PM, December 2nd (Wednesday)]

I have typed a couple of responses and deleted them. This thread is triggery for me too.

Mickie, I had an RA. Not a flirty coffee date or two, and I never got any dick pics, but I did have an RA for about 18mo. My WW never offered a hall pass, I simply told her I wasn't going to be faithful to her anymore. I didn't have anybody in particular in mind when I said those words to her, but as luck would have it, a previous GF\FWB that I "dated" for about 2yrs before my WW, contacted me after her latest relationship had ended. We exchanged a few messages, met for coffee, and the rest is history.

So for 18mo I went about the normal evening routine of a married couple with 3 small children. Oldest was in kinder, so there was some school work or books to read. I either helped cook supper, or prepared the meal myself. I helped clear the dishes, gave baths, played with the kids, read bedtime stories, etc. Then at 8:30-9pm, after the kids were settled in bed, I would leave to see AP. I saw her 3-5 times a week. I would come home afterwards in the wee hours of the morning and flop into bed reeking of sex, sweat, perfume, and usually that banana flavored lube that heats up when you blow on it. The great thing about an RA is I didn't need to hide a damn thing. Hickies, bite marks, bruises, rug burns, scratches, or rope burns didn't need to be avoided or hidden. I made no attempt to lie, or deceive, and answered any questions from my WW with lines she used in her A. My go to line was:"Hey you fucked up a good marriage to be a side chick for some fucking loser you worked with, you can now be my side chick. If you don't like it, GTFO." Sounds like a great relationship, doesn't it?

And mickie, I'm not big on being a benevolent BS. I have no interest in being a faithful martyr in a marriage where I was betrayed. I don't want to be thought of as Jesus or Ghandi. I would rather be respected than liked. I am an eye for an eye fellow. I'm not going to turn the other cheek. I also have very little respect for someone that doesn't fight back. I get where you're coming from.

Something that's not really mentioned here at SI is that affairs are fucking great -- if you can suppress empathy. My rage and need for revenge overtook my empathy. I don't see this in you. You are still worried about how this impacts your WH. I get the feeling that going forward with this will chew you up. It seems to me that you're babystepping into a full blown PA. What's next after BDSM dick pic dude? Sucking dick in a Chili's parking lot after happy hour? Think long and hard before you continue.

Let me tell you my take away from my tale of woe. I won't lie, seeing my WW humiliated and reaping what she'd sowed did give me some satisfaction. I know now, many years later, that the satisfaction from ending the marriage with dignity and grace would have been revenge that borders on fucking virtue. Stop what you're doing and think long and hard. Pippin gave you some great advice IMO.

Buck,

I don't want to thread jack but I find it strange that you don't mention your 5 year affair, tbe one you can't let go the connection to. Is your wife allowed to act like a BS with this affair or do you expect her to suck it up too?

OP, think carefully if this is how you want to end up.

People are complicated Mickie. Relationships are complicated. Your husband has his reasons for his affair that he needs to work through and heal. You have yours. Healing and rebuilding depends a lot on personal choices. Do you want to rebuild your relationship?

The world is not burning. You can take your time to figure things out. I think you already understand that honesty is the best course of action. Maybe start with that? Worry about the other things, like NC, IC, and the rest of the acronyms, afterwards. One step at a time is a lot easier than trying to drink from a fire hose.

I'm interested to know how you feel about being honest. Are you afraid? What of? Why haven't you told your husband?

I’ve got to step away from this post I’m overwhelmed.

Rugsweeping.

Mickie, you mentioned earlier in the thread that you don't and historically have never been able to tolerate inequity and a perceived or real imbalance of 'power' in a relationship. If that situation presented itself, and would not/could not be resolved, you ended the relationship.

I feel you, Sister. Ditto here.

That was one of the most difficult parts of finding out that my husband stepped over the line years earlier, and (I believe him) never did it again.

He felt so abjectly miserable and guilty he self-corrected.

We had other problems over the years, early due to immaturity, and all throughout due to FOO modeling, but he never even came close to a repeat on romantic/sexual cheating.

However, I totally feel you here because strangely, even though I've always believed the above to be true, and I have no reason to doubt it, and *I tried very, very hard to be grateful for it* (which in and of itself is a bit of a mind fuck- I'm going to work at being grateful that my husband, even though he enjoyed the living hell out of it while it was happening, felt guilty enough afterwards that he never did it again, I'm going to work on myself until I am thankful for that... WTF?)

... for a loooooong time, I'd say for a solid year and a half easily, it did not feel like it was enough.

I felt that power imbalance *acutely* and *non-stop.* It was like its own particular brand of misery for the first one and a half to two years.

*Every single advance or bid or opportunity I'd turned down, of which I had previously been quietly proud for turning down, played in my head as an alternate selection in my collection of mind movies, and seemed to mock me.*

Can I say this plainly? I am still an attractive woman and I get *plenty* of attention but I am no longer a young woman.

The lost bloom of my youth mocked me as well.

While I *absolutely know, no doubt in my mind* that I could cultivate and avail myself of opportunities for extracurricular sex and even relationships, at my age, honestly, I saw it not so much as a matter of integrity (although a small portion of my sanity spoke ever so quietly but clearly through the maelstrom of my rage and angst to remind me that I'd already lost enough, I didn't need to throw away my integrity with both hands too) but as a matter of, practicality. Prudence. Not crapping my own bed in a myriad of other ways by introducing all sorts of wild cards.

Also, in my/our case, the actual infidelity was so many years ago that 'evening the score' in the present seemed non-sequitur and even ridiculous. I found myself unwilling to take personal health, integrity, marital status and thus financial risks over some stupid, immature thing my husband did years earlier.

In short, by not acting, I was choosing to act in my own best interests. I firmly believe that this was possible because the infidelity was so far in the past, because it was literally a single incident, never repeated, because it was relatively trivial compared to other situations common here, and because I am a much older woman now with much in the balance.

If it had been a full blown ongoing affair, or repeated infidelities and ONS, or a behavior pattern, or more recent, or if I'd understood the truth of it years ago, who knows what I might have done in response during that initial one and a half years?

So I absolutely have empathy for the crazy making of the power imbalance.

I suspect that you and I are a lot alike in this particular area in that the power imbalance is its own particular affront. I think it has to do with my own FOO issues as well as some baked in personality traits.

Perhaps there is one very useful thing to come out of this:

Perhaps having your own experience, with all of its issues and guilt and squicky feelings and weirdness and feelings of personal loss of integrity and innocence is showing you that your husband didn't really 'get one over on you.'

What he got was a butt ton of stress, guilt, shame, insecurity over his marriage and his finances and the future, a self inflicted blow to his self-esteem, etc.

I know what it's like to be in the maelstrom. My husband was telling me all along that even though he got caught up in the moment and it was intensely erotic while it was happening, it is NOT something he looks back on with pleasure or arousal now. It's actually a shame inducing memory. Rather than being something he fantasizes or even thinks about, it's something he actually buried for years. The guilt and shame and realization of the squickiness of the situation actually kinda makes him physically ill when he thinks about it.

I couldn't hear that. Not for a solid 1.5 years. I didn't hear a damned word after "intensely arousing," which my husband only told me by way of explaining how he got into it up to his eyebrows and continued along with it, without thinking.

It took almost two years for me to truly believe and absorb that this was not a pleasurable memory, nor overwhelmingly a net pleasurable experience for Husband, nor a 'got one over on me.' What actually happened there was a pretty major self-inflicted emotional and psychological wound for him. He literally swept himself at the knees with stupid.

I will add here that I can finally hear my husband when he describes that, and believe it. It is a relief for him, but important to note, it's a relief for me as well, to *finally* have empathy and sympathy for my husband. This enables me to feel less defensive and more loving, and I no longer feel that a power imbalance exists.

I kind of suspect you have experienced the same thing. You could not perceive the true 'down side' for your husband until you helped yourself to a slice of it and had a taste.

I am truly sympathetic and empathetic for both of you.

As far as disclosure, I believe you are going to have to do it, and completely,

but I strongly encourage you to do so with the assistance and direct involvement of a therapist who specializes in and/or has extensive experience in infidelity.

You both with benefit from professional navigation through this process.

<3

Mickie, at some point, your husband is going to notice that you’re either glued to your phone and/or moping around miserable. Are you going to gaslight him (I don’t know what you’re talking about!), blame him, or be honest? This is your last chance to be proactive.

Or you could play ostrich and then claim you “don’t know what do” as if you didn’t get 5 pages worth of constructive advice.

The validation and escapism of the A are medicating emotional pain that has nothing to do with the AP. Implementing our advice would mean you have to give that up and enter a fresh hell by facing the consequences with your H. Your plans are all over the map: can you rugsweep and try to get away with it? Do you tell your H and get the revenge you were so looking forward to? What if that ends your marriage? Even if it doesn't, the power balance is going to shift dramatically, and you have lost the high ground. Are you rationalizing that having crossed that line, you might as well get full value from the A before you end it -- or as one BS's WH put it, "ride the ride until the park closes?"

This is all classic wayward thought process. We avoid, we hide, we pretend, we lie to others -- and most damaging of all, we lie to ourselves. Don't kid yourself, Mickie. It only gets worse from here if you don't put on the brakes. No magic moment of genuine healing is ever delivered by an A.

Mickie, you have to work on your self esteem for you. Validation from men will only get you so far. My self esteem was shattered when dday hit. I was at rock bottom. I had to build by myself up from the the ashes. I had to know that I was more than worthy of my WH and never deserved what he did. You need that too. It took a lot of work on my part. You can do that too. You don’t need a man who is willing to cheat with a married woman to do that for you.

You were a victim of your WH. You don’t need to stay a victim. The choice is yours. The scars don’t go away, but you can build yourself back up.

Please just end it with this guy. Get a divorce if it’s better for you. Infidelity is absolutely a dealbreaker, especially if your WH is not remorseful. More infidelity just creates more pain to resolve.

Just checking in with you Mickie500 . I hope you are feeling a little better Dear Lady (((HUGS))).

Oh, Mickie. I hope you're still reading. I hope you're still seeing your IC and that you trust them enough to tell them how things are with you, where you're at, and ask for help.

You are worth so much. I hope you find that truth in yourself, because you deserve so much more than this.

Who do you want to be? What kind of person do you want to be? Is that somewhere you could start?

I'm not sure if this will help, but you mentioned in the beginning of the thread that you didn't affair down? How so?

He is willing to actively participate in an affair with you. This is not a good person! Please keep this in mind, please please please. He will treat you bad too! Please don't let yourself get hurt.

Mickie - Please know that we are not attacking you. We want you to stop hurting yourself, and your chances at R if that is truly what you want.

I hope you are holding up ok, and have had some time to consider what you truly want and need to heal and move forward.

I just saw your other post.

Good on you!!! Now stick with the NC.

As a BS that succeeded in R I can tell you that those dopamine hit ego kibbles never really come from my H. But....the dopamine hits I get from him now are ones of true love and I can tell you 12 years plus out that the passion and sexual energy of our relationship has waxed and waned with period of incredible passion and lulls of weekly duty. This is actually quite the norm.

But our love and our relationship now is strong and mature and happy. What I am saying is real R can lead to a new normal and a new happy. It can be done. However it takes 100% honesty on both sides and being frank in needs concerns and wishes.

I hope that you find peace soon and whatever path you choose we will always encourage you to do what is right and just.