SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

7 years out, and things are... mostly okay with XWW.

And I find myself having mixed feelings about that.

7 years out and the pain of the affair and the divorce has faded into the recesses of my memory. I still know exactly how it felt. I could describe the pain and the trauma to you in great detail, and I know that there are things that could trigger it again, but I can't call up the feeling anymore. What's more, is that the anger that I felt over her treatment of me at that time and in the first several years following it has largely faded as well. It's spent. I don't feel it anymore. I think this is what they call "meh."

With XWW herself, our coparenting relationship seems to be in a good and stable place right now. Something changed in the last couple of years. Some of the things we used to fight about, she seems to have come around to my way of thinking on, though I'd be hard-pressed to tell you exactly why. She seems more flexible and accommodating, and generally more respectful of my role in our daughter's life. She seems to treat me more as an equal, at least for the moment. Emotionally, her attitude toward me could maybe even be called warm.

And in response to all of this, my approach to her has thawed somewhat as well. I don't seek her out, but I don't keep her at arm's length as much during the times when we have to be together because of DD. It feels, at least at the moment, like the hatchet is buried, and a certain amount of personability seems to be good medicine for our coparenting.

I haven't forgiven her for anything that she's done, and I don't trust her. I know that this period of peace could come undone the second that there's something that she wants that she sees me as an obstacle to (and I know pretty well what the thing is that could disturb the peace). I know that she's still completely capable of repeating all of the terrible things she's said and done in the past. Maybe something has substantially changed in her heart, but I'm not counting on it.

But despite the fact that I haven't forgiven her, I've come to the realization that nothing she did really matters. No one else treats her any differently as a result of her actions. She doesn't feel any guilt. Privately punishing her in my own heart doesn't do anyone any good. She might deserve it, but that's beside the point. It's like the old adage about drinking poison and expecting your enemy to die. So, for now, I've decided that she's mostly okay in my book. It just seems like the easiest and most peaceful way to live right now.

But feeling this way comes with its own internal conflict, it's own dissonance. Feeling this way feels on some level, like granting her absolution, even though I know I'm not doing that. It feels like accepting the narrative that I see repeated so much that infidelity is just something that happens, and it's painful and it hurts, but ultimately it's no more serious than a rough breakup and you'll get over it. We all know here that it's so much worse, and being chummy with someone who was abusive and bullying to me for so long seems like a betrayal of justice. I'm mostly okay with her, and I don't know if I'm okay with being okay with her.

I guess in the end, I don't see my own private sense of justice doing anyone any particular good right now, and this just seems like the path of least resistance. I know things could get bad again, but keeping a cold distance isn't going to make that any more or less likely to happen.

I don't want anyone who reads this to think that this is a thesis against setting necessary boundaries with your ex. That was my main project for the first few years after our divorce, and one which XWW constantly pushed back on. I think I did okay-but-not-perfectly with setting those boundaries. But over time, I think there was a kind of equilibrium reached, where she knew the kinds of things that she could push me on and the kinds of things she couldn't, and we both knew more or less what we expected of each other, which I think maybe, just maybe, is what created room for whatever the heck we're experiencing now. I think everyone's equilibrium is going to be different.

I don't know how to conclude this. I thought this might be the best place to share my thoughts, and I welcome any input on all of this.

I think your post is wonderful. It gives hope to those of us who have been through divorce as a result of infidelity.

I too have gotten to where you are. It took a long time but you do get there. I don't think I'll ever consider him as mostly OK, but when it comes to our daughter, I was able to reach a truce that had glimmers of congeniality in it.

It really does make life more manageable if you can get there. I was actually able to spend 22 hours in the waiting room with him and OW who he married when our daughter was giving birth to our first grand child. We never had a cross word, and my daughter got to have both her parents there.

I really want to express my gratitude for what you wrote.Two things you expressed really resonated with me. First, the idea that we drink the poison and expect the enemy to die. Second, that no one really treats the wayward spouse any differently for their actions. And, boy, that's the hardest pill to swallow but eventually we have to. No words of wisdom here except that I am living your struggle, too. I still wish for absolution, justice, then I realize that wishing for those things are their own poison also.

Very well put and reasoned.

One thing that I have learned over my lifetime is that the act of forgiveness is not really for the benefit of the forgiven, it's for your benefit, period.

All the energy spent being angry and hating has zero impact on the other person. It's in your head. They have no clue and you are wasting all this energy fueling these negative emotions and causing your conundrum.

That said, boundaries and consequences remain in tact. Meted out and enforced as required without wavering.

So go ahead and forgive the person. You will feel stronger and more tranquil if you reverse the polarity of all that previously used for the negative energy. Turn it into positive energy then use it to love yourself and all the other deserving souls in your presence.

You are almost there young man, congrats and best wishes to you going forward.

I think it's great that you've gotten to this point, and your daughter will be a beneficiary of this.

I too no longer have any ill will toward my WXH, but we've had no contact since right after the divorce was final, and I don't expect to again. It's freeing.

I think the goal is to get to a point where it is just like a bad breakup - something that you went through, learned from, and created a wonderful new life for yourself.

I used to get mad that there were no real consequences to WXH actions - he had no friends, so no one knew what he did, I'm guessing he's treated as a respected physician, etc. But he lost me, and your WXW lost you as her life partner and that is the worst consequence that either of them could have suffered. She had an incredible, loving, caring, faithful partner, and she threw it away. You now get to create a life for yourself that doesn't involve deceit.

Congrats on gaining indifference. Totally the goal.

People change. People don't change. I think both are true. If I look back and things I wrote 20 years ago or even 10, I really don't recognize myself. If I didn't have proof that I wrote it, I would insist it wasn't me. However, a lot of fundamental things don't change. I am still recognizably the same person in that I am still bad at the same shit I was bad at in the past.

Anyway, it's possible for her to have changed a bit, but be fundamentally the same. So I think your approach is very logical. You don't trust her. But if you are not actively disagreeing on anything, then what would you gain by introducing friction where none need exist?

Think of it as an "okayness of convenience".

I think it is really healthy to have reached the place that you're in - especially for your daughter. Coming from me, a child of divorced parents who could not stand each other, believe me when I tell you that your DD will appreciate your successful coparenting greatly down the road.

Just because you have reached meh does not mean that you have to absolve xww of anything, nor forgive her. It just means you aren't allowing all that angst space in your head anymore and that is not a bad thing at all. And whether she got punished or not, she still has to live every day with what she's done. But you don't have to live with it anymore - sounds to me like you got the better end of the stick there for sure!

Coming from me, a child of divorced parents who could not stand each other, believe me when I tell you that your DD will appreciate your successful coparenting greatly down the road.

Ditto. Despite 45 years since their D, my parents STILL can't speak to each other. On top of the hell that made of my childhood, it carried on to all "family" events, including intense (and selfish) drama at mine and my siblings' weddings (just yesterday my mom threw some shade on my dad about my sister's wedding - 25 effing years ago!).

There's a book called something like "How Can I Forgive You" by Janis Spring, which I highly recommend to anyone interested in exploring forgiveness, its benefits, and the ways in which the "wronged" person (here the BS) can process through the harm done to them. I hated her "After the Affair", but loved this one so much I bought several copies to give to others.

My parents divorced when I was 13. My dad cheated on my mom multiple times. When she wanted a divorce he was pissed, how dare she do that!

They both married again. My mom and stepdad treated my dad with nothing but respect. My mom never said a bad word about him. I learned about all his crap when I was older (the drinking/binge drinking, multiple women, some of them who introduced themselves to me as his "friend".

Women stalking my mom.

She went through hell.

Still she never badmouthed him alway always was dignified and full of grace.

My dad on the other hand, used to try to say things to me about my mom, as if to say "see she made me do those things"

His second wife was horrible to my mom, when she went back to court because he was trying to end child support before my sister was done school, the step wife would leave threatening notes on her car (We're watching you, we'll get you") she would also try to trash talk my mom.

I can tell you this, what my mom did for us kids, to keep as much drama out of life as possible and to make sure we had two parents even when he didn't deserve it. I have the utmost respect and love for her for what she did.

dbellanon You said nobody else treats her differently after what she’s done. Are her actions widely known?

Getting along will benefit your child. She will see that it is ok for you both to be at events. That will make everything easier as she navigates life and all that comes with it.

Thank you for posting this. Getting along will benefit your child.

You put into words everything I have been feeling and thinking for a very long time.

I, too, have struggled with the being okay with being okay with the X.

We don't have minor children, but because of his health situation, we are in contact. I actually see him once a week.

I have friends who are outraged that I even give him a moment of my time.

What works is that I keep my mouth shut. Does that mean he got away with what he did to me? I don't know. I do know, he will never see things differently. He will always believe what he believes.

As far as justice goes....well, my anger and rage got me a trip to the ER, and a 3 night stay in the hospital. The doctor told me my stress and anger were going to kill me. I had to let it all go...

I still have moments, but nothing like 5 years ago.

This can be mine field to navigate through. For me, it all revolves around his health. Am I compassionate, or am I a doormat? Is he grateful, or is he telling his friends that I must not think what he did was that bad?

Maybe it is nothing more than a reason for me to see my dog once a week.....LOL. The X kept the dog.

For right now, I am content to let things be what they are.

xWH and I don't really communicate unless it's about the kids (all adults now) or a family or close mutual friend. And it works! I don't hate him, I feel nothing, and want the best for him. But he's not a friend, not someone I want to be friends with. The infidelity and 2 OW's will never truly go away, but we learn to set them aside for the sake of sanity. I forgave him so I could go on with my life but a close relationship with him won't happen. And it's ok!

It’s sweet, isn’t it, to look at that person and feel nothing. Knowing that they have lost their power over you. Being able to coparent successfully exactly because of that. Because they don’t push your buttons anymore. It has become a job and you want to get it done as efficiently as possible. That’s how I feel, five years down the line.

I think there is something tremendously dignified in being the better person. My most recent SO couldn’t stay in the same room as his XW. They used their 12 y/o child to communicate and argue...it was pitiful to watch It certainly reinforced my conviction that forgiveness, compassion and dignity are the way forward. To a better self, first of all.

[This message edited by Karmafan at 7:02 PM, December 21st (Monday)]

Very inspiring post to read. Love it when I hear about the meh.

It's true that no one else treats them differently. The part that was hard for me (I'm 2 years out from divorce atm), was that the kids now don't treat him any differently. And claim to have a great relationship with him.

As for me, I have been considering forgiveness and what that looks like/ what it means for me. I think that forgiveness needs to be separated from healing the wound. Two very different things. Once the wound is healed then maybe it feels like forgiveness. But I now believe the two are mutually exclusive. And that you can heal the wound and choose not to forgive. Kind of a radical idea.

I found all the things I read or heard about forgiveness patronizing. But with time, I realize that no one has ever explained it to me, in a way that I can understand. I no longer care if I ever forgive him. Because in the beginning it felt really insincere. Now, I don't think of him nearly as much and am in a very healthy relationship with an awesome, honest, genuine beautiful man. I believe that he is the true love of my life that I was finally prepared to meet. I may not care to forgive XWH, but what I find more meaningful is to forgive the impact him and his actions had on me. That feels right for me. I know I won't ever trust him nor do I want to be anywhere near him. Both my kids are grown and I went no contact with him shortly after the separation. (He's a narc/ personality disorder/ addict/ abusive to me). We don't live near each other so there is no way to have contact. And if my kids want us to be one big happy family on some future occasion, well, I can't see that happening either. You're right that all of this is in one's head and that they don't suffer. It isn't just, that's for sure. I know that it does no good to feel such hatred and anger but I also know that that was a journey I allowed myself in order to heal. I think it was very necessary to feel all the hateful feelings towards him. I hated him and probably still do. But that doesn't mean I'm not getting to meh. What I hate is who he actually is as a person. His personality. I can't imagine having contact with him, even in the future. Because I now love and respect myself. And divorce means that I don't ever have to see him. I have no need or desire to patch things up or to reminisce down memory lane. That makes no sense to me.

All-in-all a great post!

I want to focus on this single factor:

No one else treats her any differently as a result of her actions.

The reason I want to focus on this is because of the advice often offered here on SI. I sometimes think that too much emphasis is placed on revenge and shaming.

I’m a big proponent of exposure. I see it as a tool to possibly getting to somewhere we – the BS – might be able to offer reconciliation. It ends the affair, ends the fantasy and all that. But once we decide we want to divorce then the need and reason for exposure changes.

We sometimes think our decision to divorce is THE MOST important event in the universe. We are surprised when we realize that nearly nobody outside our closest group of stakeholders in the marriage don’t really give a s@it.

Two years from divorce we no longer go to the former in-laws for Thanksgiving. We no longer get the Christmas gift from the ex-spouse sister. We might stop our former BIL at the Mall and chat for a minute or two, but otherwise we largely ignore each other. Brad –husband of Jane, your ex’s former roommate at college – you no longer see him because Jane and Brad were mainly your couple-friends because of the connection your ex and Jane had. It’s not personal – it’s just reality.

Brad and Jane don’t think you are an asshole. They don’t think your ex is an angel and you were abusive. They simply know you two divorced and that since the ex was the catalyst for the friendship, they stick with her to keep things simple.

People divorce all the time. Life goes on. Some friends remain your friends, others maybe follow your former spouse. Some simple get out of both your lives because it’s strange to have an odd-number at the dinner-table.

Life goes on.

Nobody gets a trophy and is declared the winner of the divorce with more friend-points and a righteous stance.

Life goes on….

And this is why I have consistently suggested that once you decide to divorce then focus on getting the best divorce you can. Skip the revenge, the hate, the trying to win. It doesn’t matter. Nobody cares anyway.

My ex left me for her AP whom she has married. She has the life she wants. She knew this guy before we ever married. Our marriage was fraudulent at its core, but no, she doesn't really pay any penalty for this other than her own guilt. Other people stay out of it, including her family. No one's really been mean to me, they know I was a good guy.

I have three kids, still quite a ways out of the nest. That makes things difficult. I have not accepted everything about the divorce on my end, that I have to accept having a new partner completely. That is still a struggle for me. My relationship is a struggle, maybe too much of one at this point, I don't know.

But I get along reasonably well with my ex. We never really had any parenting conflicts. She's just a conniver who wanted what she perceived to be the best deal. I guess she has two men tied to her now, to her that's probably an upgrade. But her family has had some COVID issues and I wished her well with those. No one is going to be helped by that now.

But I still have a lot of work to do in recovery of myself, and I'm 5 years out. Still much damage. It could have been worse. But in some ways my ex being less of an asshole at this point is still bad, because she can be a decent person some of the time and she still did it to me. Face it, WS do tremendous damage, even if they get no actual penalty in most cases.

This post resonates with me in so many ways.

And I find myself having mixed feelings about that.

Such an understatement. I'm trying to come to terms with a lot of things as well. This post pretty much encapsulates all of the emotions and feeling I'm trying to resolve. I hope I get there too.