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goalong

she may have dressed and put makeup purposely for this meeting. How is her alcohol intake? Any increase indicates she is presenting I am so happy and confident face for your consumption.

I have no idea.I'm sure it's still a few drinks a night. Can't see that having changed with the issue of her sons and parents still hanging over her head. She did look like she'd lost a little weight too. I need to remind myself shes's a good actress, based on her ability to fool me for so long that everythign was fine. She obviously has an uncanny ability to compartmentalize.

It's not legal official, but she and I both signed the Settlement Agreement. I'll get the to the attorney to clean up and make offical so that we can both properly sign that one notarized/witnessed etc...

[This message edited by Troutman523 at 12:35 PM, Friday, August 19th]

BornYesterday

Troutman, I feel as though I could’ve almost written this myself. I’m SO incredibly sorry for the pain you’re feeling. It’s truly a visceral pain. I’m not quite 3 week’s from Dday and when I do manage to sleep? I jolt awake in a complete panic almost on the hour. Daily exercise has been my only savior…and I’m hardly a health nut. It’s 1 hour of me-time that doesn’t hurt quite so much. I’ve lost the same amount of weight as you exactly, but think of it as the silver lining to all this crap. (10 more lbs to goal). You sound as though you’re FAR stronger than I’ve been through this. I’m still stuck in the bargaining phase. So pat yourself on the back for that. And that whole "I’ve been unhappy for years" crap? Don’t take it to heart…I’m convinced that’s a tool to relieve their guilt about the A. I take comfort in statistics and the data show? She’ll dump him or he’ll dump her. It’s only a matter of time. Karma’s coming for them….

Thank you for the sympathy, and I'm sorry you are in this position too. I may seem stronger, but that definitely comes and goes and I have plenty of horrible moments. Though I'm a t least eating a bit better of late. The sleep depravation is still a killer, but I got back to docotor next week and hopefully they can give me something different to break the pattern.

Best of luck to you as you move forward. The saving grace from me has been both therapy and good caring people in general to talk to. I hope you have a good support system.

Trout, my solicitudes on the tragic betrayal you have and are facing down. We are in the same age range and when I read of WSs throwing away long standing marriages like so much trash, it makes my heart hurt. I shake my head and say, "What a horrible waste."

Youve received tremendous input from veterans here and I dont have much to add but I will say this. My betrayal is an old one but the scars and lessons learned remain. I can tell you from experience that as bad as this is for you, and the pain in your posts is palpable, what I put myself through by trying to R with a non remorseful wife was awful. I guess they call it a false R around here. Now, I helped facilitate that false R by minimizing & rug sweeping which just prolonged the pain like pulled taffy. It truly was death of a marital relationship by a thousand cuts. It turned into a hurtful wasteland devoid of love and affection.

I say all of that to say I affirm your decisive action. Telling your adulterous spouse that youll not live in limbo, that youll not settle for anything other than a faithful loving, loyal wife is damn straight.

I know its gotta be terribly hard to pry your mental/emotional grip loose of 30 years of marital experience and
memories, but that can come in time as you process and heal.

Breath deep a lot and blow out the stress. It helps. Oh, not sure if you mentioned this but try melatonin to help with sleep.

Hey, Trout, how are you doing ?

Western

Hey, Trout, how are you doing ?

It's been a rough week actually. My doctor switched my sleep medication (since I still get 4-5 hours a night) to Ambien on Monday. Not only has it not really helped, but it has really screwed me up depression wise and makes me feel like crap physically. I have mentally felt like crap the last two days, and would frankly just go back to my other medication which at least targets my depression. My one sister and one of my dearest old friends have been rocks for me this week. I've really leaned hard on them. Hopefully it's just a phase because I was doing pretty well last week. getting some kind of better energy level would certainly help A LOT. I've got a lot to talk to my therapist about Friday.

My oldest son still has no plans to speak to her and younger son only had that one brief contact.I had dinner with her parents the other night and they still aren't even considering budging to talk to her at all. One tidbit I got from my MIL, was that she and WW get their hair cut by the same woman. The sylist told MIL that WW was in last week. I think she left a lot out about the conversation in confidence, but did say to MIL that WW said "I'm an emotional wreck and a shell of my former self". So there's that...

I should be able to stay NC for the foreseeable future as divorce paperwork works its way through the system.

[This message edited by Troutman523 at 3:22 AM, Thursday, August 25th]

Sometimes the meds need some fine tuning to find the right level. That may take a week to see a difference.

When I was going thru my D there would be times when I felt great then crashed and felt like crap. It eventually leveled out.

RE: What your MIL said-it is probably true as hair stylists act as de facto therapists. Reality is setting in as her new real life begins...

Good luck Tman

Keep working at your healing. I hope you get your sleep aids adjusted. Focus n you and your future. Whatever happens to your STBXWW is just a meh! She made her choice, and arrogantly has no second thoughts despite all of the pain she is causing. Sounds like she is posturing and whining to her hairdresser for sympathy, while in reality she is just fine with the destruction she has caused. The best revenge is a life well lived. I know it is hard, but give her as little brain space as possible. Focus on all of your positives moving forward. Good luck.

Thanks for the update.

If WW tells the hair stylist that you are an emotional wreck, then you need to (in my opinion) keep everything about you secret. She is the wreck. She just kissed her entire past goodbye. She has no moral authority to cast judgement on you. In fact, the only things she should know is that you are moving on without her and having a great time (whether true or not). If she thinks that, then you have taken control of the dynamic. Not out of revenge but out of image, she will know she failed when you do better without her. Go golfing with your friends. Fishing. Spend time with your sons. Post it on Facebook. There is a tremendous life on the other side. Live it.

Having an incredible relationship with your sons will show her that she broke up a good family unit for a piece of garbage like the other guy. I don't care what his background is or not. He is dirt. No good person who gets divorced takes pleasure in another man's wife.

Please don't influence your kids. Let them handle it the way they want. I think it's admirable they protect the victim here (you). That's what I would have done. I love how the one son of yours reminded her of the moral upbringing and how she failed. It speaks volumes that she is ready to wash her hands of them (I think you said that or maybe I am mistaken). Actions have consequences. She fails to accept those. You raised two great sons. Praise to you. Many try to keep their kids connected to the WS as adults and not in coparenting. I think this hurts them because they are eroding their own support unit. But that is my opinion only.

From now on, no contact. All goes through attorneys. Free yourself of this. I know 30 years is brutal. One great poster said here very early on this thread that you should consider her dead to you and I agree with this. Redefining yourself at 57 is tough (it would be tough for me at 53) but it can and will be done in this case. You have the charisma to do that.

Please keep us informed. Don't let anyone know you are posting here. This is your safe space.

BTW when I was on midnights for years, Ambien stunk. I too felt like crap. I went to 2 mg of Lunesta. Worked wonders

Thanks as always for the support everyone.

If WW tells the hair stylist that you are an emotional wreck, then you need to (in my opinion) keep everything about you secret. She is the wreck. She just kissed her entire past goodbye.

Sorry for the confusion. She was talking about herself! I've kept how I'm feeling well away from her. I know she gets fuel from the pain.

I love how the one son of yours reminded her of the moral upbringing and how she failed. It speaks volumes that she is ready to wash her hands of them (I think you said that or maybe I am mistaken).

That statement was about her parents, not our sons.

Sounds like she is posturing and whining to her hairdresser for sympathy, while in reality she is just fine with the destruction she has caused.

I actually do think she is suffering. Nothing about what she did to me (based on the way she discarded me she feels nothing in that regard), almost exlusively about our sons.

If WW tells the hair stylist that you are an emotional wreck, then you need to (in my opinion) keep everything about you secret. She is the wreck. She just kissed her entire past goodbye.

Sorry for the confusion. She was talking about herself!

So nothing about what she did to you. Nothing about what she did to her sons. Her complaint was about the impact that the consequences of her actions have had on her. Life is so unfair. She has clearly had an empathy bypass, to say the least. This is why a communications bypass a.k.a. no contact is definitely your best option.

I actually do think she is suffering. Nothing about what she did to me (based on the way she discarded me she feels nothing in that regard), almost exclusively about our sons.

It sounds like she created a fantasy masterplan in which she could run off with another man but still be a loved and cherished member of the family she dumped, with a permanent open door to show up and be welcomed on national holidays, birthdays, and at Christmas, to receive praise, love, gratitude, and appreciation, because everyone loves an abuser, and that's how reality works. Or not. As the case may be.

Leaving the deluded fantasies of a cake-eating narcissist to one side, I have a suggestion for you and the boys that might help counterbalance the blues that are dogging you. There are public holidays coming up, amongst them Thanksgiving and Christmas, so how about you and your sons start thinking about maybe all going away together to have some fun breaks? Fishing weekends, a trip to a city you guys have never been to, a Christmas seeing the Northern Lights, or Christmas on the beach in Australia, or...Well, you guys have a better idea of the stuff that you might like.

What I am saying is get together and start talking about some group trips that the three of you can take, particularly on the important public holidays, so that all three of you can have fun making new memories, and bonding. Start thinking about where you guys might enjoy going, what you want to do, and so on. Your wife may have handed out lemons, but if you guys use your new freedom to have a road trip, go camping in Yosemite, spend Christmas in New York, or on the beach in Hawaii, or whatever you choose to do, then you are making lemonade, and having a damn sight more fun than her. The best revenge is living well, so start planning some fun activities for you and the boys. And get the boys involved; three heads are better than one.

While you do that, rest assured there there is a whole team of people here rooting for you and your sons. It may feel like you are staggering around in the aftermath of an air-strike right now, but ten years from now, you may be grateful that your wife identified herself as 'the weakest link', because it liberated you and your sons to find someone and something better that you never would have found if she had stayed. The ride is not over, life goes on, and the world has much left to offer you and your sons. Start making plans to explore that, and you may start feeling sorry for your wife missing out on what you guys are enjoying.

[This message edited by M1965 at 12:27 AM, Thursday, August 25th]

So nothing about what she did to you. Nothing about what she did to her sons. Her complaint was about the impact that the consequences of her actions have had on her. Life is so unfair. She has clearly had an empathy bypass, to say the least. This is why a communications bypass a.k.a. no contact is definitely your best option.

Well she's a narcissist of some variation so it is always about how it effects THEM. And no, she has no empahty. I know that well..

It sounds like she created a fantasy masterplan in which she could run off with another man but still be a loved and cherished member of the family she dumped, with a permanent open door to show up and be welcomed on national holidays, birthdays, and at Christmas, to receive praise, love, gratitude, and appreciation, because everyone loves an abuser, and that's how reality works. Or not. As the case may be.

Look back a few pages about her delusion of the four of us spending Christmas together that I shot right down.

Me and the sons are certainly going to spend holidays together to her exclusion, just not sure what yet. Their grandparents are very supportive and close to them so we'll lilely keep them somewhere in the loop.

Your happiness is not dependent on her unhappiness.
Detach.
If you visit with your in-laws then steer away from discussions on how she is and focus on how you are.
If somebody starts telling you that her butcher noticed she’s buying pork instead of beef… not your concern. Not anymore than some rumors from her hairdresser.

I want to suggest one thing to help with sleep and emotional recovery:
Do something physical (and preferably outside) that you enjoy.
Play golf? Go to the driving range and empty 2-3 buckets.
Trout (as in Troutman)? Go practice your cast in the park. Measure out 30, 60 and 90 feet and learn to hit the exact target.
Jog. I think jogging and weight-lifting is what saved me back in the day. It’s hard to think of your mental misery when you are struggling for your next breath running up a slope.
Walk. You can do this right now with little preparation. Put on some good shoes, maybe some ear-buds and a good podcast and go walk for at least an hour per day.

All the items I mentioned tend to be repetitive: Your swing is the same again and again, same with your cast, same with running or walking. Done with intent it focuses your thoughts on those actions and distracts your brain from your misery. You might go back to those thoughts but then you notice your drive drops and you refocus, your cast shortens and you refocus… Its good mental training, plus it physically wears you out. That helps you sleep.

Bigger

Appreciate the thoughts and suggestions. I think I'm caught in a loop of having zero energy to do any of those things (and yes fly fishing and golf are my main hobbies). I'm working on it, trust me. I did play Sunday and was pretty exhausted that night, but still no change in the sleep depravation. If I can just got over the sleep hurdle it will really help me. I had a busy, hectic day at work and quite frankly, didn't do my job as I'm capable because of the fatigue. I'm basically at nine weeks now with 4-5 hours a night. Something has to give. I may need a sleep professional at this point.

Go see your doctor. Short term medication can help.

ok let's forget about the past and ignoring signs that she gave you (that's all on her, this was an exit affair on her part and she didn't care about you in the process). We know it's been an 18 moth affair, probably an empty nester. So let us get you to the enxt stage.

I am sorry if I missed details in this thread.

Did you file for divorce yet ?

Are you allowing your kids free reign on how to deal with their mom ?

Are you doing things you enjoy ?

Have you told her friendship is not an option ?

Time to move forward. You have many good years ahead of you. You deserve better.

It will be fun when this new guy dumps her at some point and she comes back. If that happens, shut the door.

I can never fathom throwing 30 years into the wind. Something is off with her. Obviously, the narccistic attitude has been brought up here.

Just do what you feel you need to do

How are things with the attorney ? Don't answer if you think she's watching here

I am sorry if I missed details in this thread.

Did you file for divorce yet ? Yes

Are you allowing your kids free reign on how to deal with their mom ? Yes, they are 24 and 27 they are making their own way on this. The one hasn't spoken to her, the other a brief very awkward terse dinner. That was it for him.

Are you doing things you enjoy ? Doing my best. I would be better with that with more energy. I'm constantly exhausted from the lack of sleep. My therapist today suggested I need a Sleep Specialist, and I agree.

Have you told her friendship is not an option ?When she asked weeks ago if the four of us (her, me, sons) could do something for Christmas together I shot that down. I told her " you ar eiether my loving, faithful wife or you are out of my life when this divorce is final. You have already clearly not chosen the former".

It will be fun when this new guy dumps her at some point and she comes back. If that happens, shut the door.

I can never fathom throwing 30 years into the wind. Something is off with her. Obviously, the narccistic attitude has been brought up here.The. Door. Is. Closed. Something is very off with what she has done, no doubt. As my therapist says, her behavior checks nearly every box of Covert Naricissism. There is zero empathy, zero regret, zero remorse. It is just so shocking how you can throw me away in the blink of an eye like yesterday's trash, with no clue it was coming on my part AND move right in with OM while we are still married.

[This message edited by Troutman523 at 4:22 AM, Saturday, August 27th]

like fever, depression is not a disease but an outward symptom of a conflicting inner mind, So sit down and think of what your inner mind is struggling or cannot come to terms with. Once you understand your inner mind which normally wishes for things that are unrealistic, not possible or impractical, negotiate with yourself what the best course of action is (with the help of others like councilors).

Your ultimate goal should be to live better than you previously did which is the best answer to your wife's betrayal. As I mentioned before at this age. emotional support and unconditional love are the most important in a relationship. It is not impossible in an affair but most probably she will not get it in the long run. But do not bank your peace of mind on it.
Unlike your WW You have a clear conscience so you do not have to second guess and if and buts. Which is the opposite of your WW's. Looks like her wandering mind is torturing itself by second guessing

[This message edited by goalong at 3:07 PM, Saturday, August 27th]

My suggestions for sleep based on the latest research on the brain and sleep

Cool dark room

Same time each night

No food or alcohol six hours before bed unless you need it for meds.

No TV or computer screen an hour before sleep no bright lights, loud TV or music. No worrisome topics.

Dim the light and listen to quiet music half an hour before bed. Take deep breaths and let racing thoughts come then dismiss them.

Take a bath or shower and let your body cool down to bring on drowsiness.

Wake at sunrise. This seems to line up the brain for sleep later on.

Do some exercise every day. Stress chemicals mess swith sleep and exercise burns them off and out of your blood.

No caffeine after 2 pm.

The brain needs healthy fats. Olive and sesame oil are really good for the heart and arteries. An omega type fish oil is great too. You need good fats for the brain to release the good things your body needs.

Not too much carbs. They give a blood sugar rush that feels good but then your blood sugar crashes and that messes up sleep patterns. Try for a fistsized portion with a meal. Eat as many veggies as you can. You absolutely need all the micronutrients and antioxidants. Eat bright colored foods. Dark greens and reds and berries of all kinds. Blueberries and cranberries are cancer fighters too. They also help you build over 400 new neurons while you sleep.

You need to sleep to replace the neurons. You need sleep to renew old cells and build new ones. Please look up autophagy. Your cells need to take out the trash and any lingering stuff like covid spike protein hanging around. Autophagy does this. You need a good diet of clean foods and sleep to break those toxins and unwanted foreign chemicals down. Then you can feel energetic from the cellular level out.

Tell yourself every night when you are sitting in dim light and letting hard thoughts and frustrations go that you will sleep well and wake with energy. Give yourself something good to look forward to in the morning. You are telling yourself you will re ew and refresh your body a d mind. You tell yourself this every night. You are training your mind. It's important.

That last 30 minutes of the day is for you. It's essential. Sleeping 6 hours or less for 5 or more days is for your brain like being drunk. You can't be thinking or driving your best. Sleep patterns made all the difference in my health. You can train 6ourself so you can sleep naturally again. If your thoughts won't go, write them down and say you'll look tomorrow. Maybe learn to stretch on a soft mat before bed 8n the dim light. Stretching releases stress.

Positive thoughts Trout, you will heal and have a good life. Be good to yourself.

[This message edited by pureheartkit at 1:41 AM, Sunday, August 28th]

pureheartkit

Thanks for the advice.

Cool dark room

Same time each night

No food or alcohol six hours before bed unless you need it for meds.

No TV or computer screen an hour before sleep no bright lights, loud TV or music. No worrisome topics.

Dim the light and listen to quiet music half an hour before bed. Take deep breaths and let racing thoughts come then dismiss them.

Take a bath or shower and let your body cool down to bring on drowsiness.

Wake at sunrise. This seems to line up the brain for sleep later on.

Do some exercise every day. Stress chemicals mess swith sleep and exercise burns them off and out of your blood.

No caffeine after 2 pm.

I check almost all of those boxes. Had another horrific night last night. Bed at 10:15, asleep within 5 minutes or so. Woke up at 2:50 and then tossed and turned mostly awake with occasional doze-offs until I crawled out of bed at 8:30.
I tried the Ambien again last night and that clearly doesn't help and I fee lousy today. I even took 50mg of Trazadone, my other medication when I woke up at 2:50, don't think it did a lot.

I am going to call the sleep center near me tomorrow for an appointment. I can't keep going like this...

My son sent me a Youtube clip from Top Gun that I just watched. Adrenaline rush kind of scene. I literally felt shaky and ill after watching, I think because my levels are already so high to begin with. I read an article yesterday about how these things keep feeding on themselves and the body keeps producing more adrenaline due to the hightened anxiety, which leads to more insomnia.