SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You did not contribute to her affair. Very few BS do.

I go against the grain here because I do think there are some extreme cases where the BS does contribute substantially, but they are comparatively rare. 5% or less? Who knows. Picture the wife who is in an abusive marriage. Physically and emotionally abusive. It is far too common that abused spouses do not leave their abuser easily. When that woman has an affair, I believe the husband contributed. We can still say it was her choice alone, it was still a betrayal and she should have just left the abuser first. All true. But the abusive husband played a role imo. Is a Madhatter affair similar? Idk, maybe.

But most affairs do not include any of those abuse elements in them. And the vast majority have the WS rationalizing and falsely blaming their BS in some way so they don't appear as the villain themselves. So in the end, it's expedient to just say that no BS contributes.

Not much to update. 2nd MC session was just individual meetings where she asked a few questions about our family and relationship backgrounds to get to know where we're coming from. Next session will be the telling one for me on if I will continue with it or not.

I did finish reading After the Affair. It was "OK" but definitely I felt like I had to pick and choose which parts applied to me, and most did not. And I am not nearly ready for the parts about how to heal the marriage yet. Now I am about halfway through Not Just Friends and I absolutely agree with everyone who said this is a WAY better option. I feel like I have highlighted passages on almost every single page because it rings so true to how I feel or my thought process. My wife is reading it too.

I’m big on accepting the consequences of your decisions. That’s why I have this quote in my tagline.
We have hammered on that your wife needs to accept that the affair was HER decision. We can find all sorts of mitigating factors, but none that explain why she allowed it to cross that clear line in the ground.

I think you need to accept some consequences to your decision to reconcile. Mainly that you are forfeiting any expectation or right to punish her. Some posters here are big on consequences. The consequence for her affair is this – MC, you being heartbroken, the lack of trust, the doubts, the pain… All this time, money and effort that could have been placed into planning a trip to Key West or skiing in Aspen or whatever.
This is not the same as accepting her affair. THAT needs to be dealt with. It’s more that you accept that she did what she did, is doing what she’s doing to make things right and that eventually you wont be holding this against her.

The goal is that maybe 40 years from now you two will be sitting in your rockers out on the porch looking at the sunset and you sneak a look at her and think "Thank God I didn’t leave her despite what she did", not realizing she just sneaked a look at you thinking "Thank God he didn’t leave me despite what I did".

Some updates.

The good

- Started my IC this week. She is a specialist and I could tell immediately knows what she's doing when it comes to infidelity. It felt great to talk to someone other than a forum (no offense!) and my wife about it.

- We are getting along well and communicating well.

- I feel like I am starting to come out of the funk, like I've been able to be more of a dad, have more energy, etc.

- Had the first real MC session and it was better than expected. Now that I've started IC though I am going to keep an even closer eye on if I think anything beneficial is coming from MC for me.

The less good
Hard to explain, but basically I feel like my wife is trying to skip some steps to this whole process. Not maliciously, but here are some examples and i'd appreciate any input.

- We both read "the end of the affair" and "not just friends" and compared notes. It was clear immediately that she focused almost exclusively on the parts about reconciliation and rebuilding, while all my notes were more about the trauma of the event and how it makes me feel. I flat out told her I am nowhere close to being able to seriously read the parts about rebuilding the relationship and feel like they apply to me yet, it's only been a few weeks.

- She admitted she does not identify with many of the WS examples in these books. While it's true most of them are much more intense LTA type situations where the AP and WS are more bonded compared to what she thinks of as her 2 week mental break, I have been trying to get her to see what what she did hurt me just as badly and is just as serious. She does not deny that, but ultimately I do think she reads other examples and thinks "well mine wasn't so bad in comparison" although she has not said those words to me.

- She reads this site sometimes, but instead of reading the wayward stuff she focuses on positive R stories. Not saying that's a bad thing, but what it comes down to is that I don't feel like she's figured out yet what it was about herself that allowed this to happen. I think she thinks its as simple as "I was vulnerable and sad and a perfect storm of fluke events happened, I stopped it, regret it, and will never do it again" - parts of that may be true, but I am NOT content with thinking of it as a perfect storm or a fluke.

- We had a long conversation yesterday. What is boiled down to is I wanted her to admit to me her thought process and intentions of inviting him over that second time to exchange the check in person. This is something I've gone back to many times. She simply can NOT admit she had intentions of doing it again, and taking it further. Reasons she has given include - I wanted to test myself, I wanted to talk about it with him, I wanted to see him but not for it to get physical. She has admitted to so much, but she can NOT admit this part to herself or to me. Cannot acknowledge that despite both being adults who had just discussed their attraction via text, it was clear what they both wanted and what her intentions were. She said to me "I feel like you won't accept anything I say as true unless I lie and say I wanted intercourse." - which is not true. But I do want a realistic and not sugarcoated admission of how she envisioned the visit going.

I guess what I'm getting at, is she's doing some of the work, but I am concerned she's missing the important work. She can admit to the acts she committed, apologize endlessly, take responsibility, and I appreciate her efforts and I know she is trying.... but she still can't see herself as someone who made all these choices willingly and knowingly. She just keeps coming back to "I dont recognize myself during those 2 weeks" and neither do I because it was so opposite her character, but I also want more acknowledgement that these were choices willingly made, rather than treating it as some horrible event that happened to both of us which we now have to fight through together.

Hey @PFB84

I'm sorry that this happened to you. Tbh your wife's affair is as common as it gets. I don't want to offend you, but I think you have to be frank and honest with yourself when you want to heal from this and move on, in what direction you ever chose.
You have to make a decision, whether you burden yourself with what happened and work it out with your SO or you move on without her.
If you choose to stay, as I said before, you have to be honest with yourself. Find out why you want to stay and why you choose to burden yourself with that choice. By now you know that your SO is not the person you thought she was and neither did she. This sounds generic, but that's exactly what it is. I think part of your past admiration for your wife resulted not only from your feelings for her, certain talents and skills, but also because you thought highly of her, how she handled her past relationship, how she showed integrity, her conviction in regard of cheating. Her morality.
If you choose to stay you have to acknowledge that she isn't this person! She is not this princess, she never was. What she showed you was an image of an inexperienced human being. You have to acknowledge that she is a flawed human being just like the rest of us. She pretended to be a beacon of morality, but at the very first opportunity she gave in and became herself an adulterer! All her previous convictions are fraud, because she only talked out of inexperience, and the first moment she had that 'experience' she couldn't resist and gave in. I don't want to antagonize you, I want you to be honest with yourself. She told you, but it was paired with 'trickletruth', that's why I said in the beginning, your wife's affair is as common as it gets, when you read similar stories and there are a lot, it's similar if not the same. She told you, partly because she realized what a hypocrite she is and out of guilt.
You can continue from here, but you have to be honest with yourself. Don't rationalize and don't minimize. Acknowledge what is. I read in some of your replies that you think your SO's AP is kind of a predator, from the timeline you posted it doesn't seem like that, your SO jumped on him and liked it. She was never tested like this in the past and she failed.

She just keeps coming back to "I dont recognize myself during those 2 weeks" and neither do I because it was so opposite her character, but I also want more acknowledgement that these were choices willingly made, rather than treating it as some horrible event that happened to both of us which we now have to fight through together.

Well, she needs to understand that if this was just some "perfect storm" that just "happened", there's no way you can trust her going forward. If lightning can strike once it can strike twice. How can you R with that? The only way for you to relax enough to heal and still be in this marriage is if she identifies the defect and remediates it. Nothing less will give you peace of mind.

The problem with cheaters is that they don't stand for the things they claim to. If she did, she couldn't have done what she did. This was NOT "opposite of her character". It's exactly her character. She gave herself permission to take some time off from Fidelity. She had some sort of unspoken out-clause, a "but..." in her values system. ie. "She believes in Fidelity, but... not if she needs some outside validation." That "but..." was already there. She might not have known it until push came to shove, but this dearth of integrity IS a part of her. If it wasn't, the infidelity could not have happened.

I do think she's remorseful, but remorse don't feed the bulldog, right? Being sorry isn't enough to fix this. She's NOT who she thought she was and until she really owns that, she can't fix it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:37 PM, Thursday, October 6th]

So she's willing to do the surface work, but doesn't want to dig deeper.

That's a huge problem. Because everything that she said that created this "perfect storm," can happen again. And she's not doing the work on herself to make sure she doesn't do it again. What happens the next time she is "vulnerable and sad?"

This is where the work gets hard. And she's not doing it. As long as she continues to not dig any deeper,she remains an unsafe partner.

I wanted to test myself, I wanted to talk about it with him, I wanted to see him but not for it to get physical.

Why did she feel the need to test herself? What was she testing? What was she wanting to accomplish? These are things she needs to dig deeper on.

Why did she need to see him,to talk to him about it? Why the need to see him in person,when she could have talked to him on the phone,or texts?

There were hundreds of little choices that she made,that ended with them being sexual on the couch. All of those choices need to be examined.

Since she already reads here she should post on the wayward forum. They will help her to understand the work she needs to do,and help guide her through it.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:49 PM, Thursday, October 6th]

I'm gonna do a big ol' breakdown reply, like I do on occasion. Keep in mind, if your wife is curious, that I am a happy reconciliation success story. :)

The good

- Started my IC this week. She is a specialist and I could tell immediately knows what she's doing when it comes to infidelity. It felt great to talk to someone other than a forum (no offense!) and my wife about it.

The people here are great, but real life support helps a lot!

- We are getting along well and communicating well.

- I feel like I am starting to come out of the funk, like I've been able to be more of a dad, have more energy, etc.

- Had the first real MC session and it was better than expected. Now that I've started IC though I am going to keep an even closer eye on if I think anything beneficial is coming from MC for me.

I said something similar about my first MC, who I ultimately fired. Do keep a close eye on that.

Improving communication is great. Don't let anyone muddy the waters with "if we just communicated better this never would have happened". That's blameshifting.

The less good
Hard to explain, but basically I feel like my wife is trying to skip some steps to this whole process. Not maliciously, but here are some examples and i'd appreciate any input.

- We both read "the end of the affair" and "not just friends" and compared notes. It was clear immediately that she focused almost exclusively on the parts about reconciliation and rebuilding, while all my notes were more about the trauma of the event and how it makes me feel. I flat out told her I am nowhere close to being able to seriously read the parts about rebuilding the relationship and feel like they apply to me yet, it's only been a few weeks.

She is rugsweeping. The other "bible" around her is "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. I thought it was too hardcore for my specific situation. I was wrong. Overall, the betrayal is a huge problem regardless of the specifics. Yes, some are worse than others, but comparison doesn't help anyone heal. Comparison is almost always a path of minimization. My wife was an expert minimizer looking back on things.

- She admitted she does not identify with many of the WS examples in these books. While it's true most of them are much more intense LTA type situations where the AP and WS are more bonded compared to what she thinks of as her 2 week mental break, I have been trying to get her to see what what she did hurt me just as badly and is just as serious. She does not deny that, but ultimately I do think she reads other examples and thinks "well mine wasn't so bad in comparison" although she has not said those words to me.

My wife was able to identify with Ralph in NJF. I do think that helped both her and I in understanding her motivations and internal excuses to cheat.

- She reads this site sometimes, but instead of reading the wayward stuff she focuses on positive R stories. Not saying that's a bad thing, but what it comes down to is that I don't feel like she's figured out yet what it was about herself that allowed this to happen. I think she thinks its as simple as "I was vulnerable and sad and a perfect storm of fluke events happened, I stopped it, regret it, and will never do it again" - parts of that may be true, but I am NOT content with thinking of it as a perfect storm or a fluke.

One of the most important things in healing from the A is not considering it a perfect storm, one off, or fluke. Even if the so called "environmental factors" were particularly rough, she chose to cheat. How would she change her decisions if the same storm came around a second time? That's what it means to change, do the work, and become a safe partner.

- We had a long conversation yesterday. What is boiled down to is I wanted her to admit to me her thought process and intentions of inviting him over that second time to exchange the check in person. This is something I've gone back to many times. She simply can NOT admit she had intentions of doing it again, and taking it further. Reasons she has given include - I wanted to test myself, I wanted to talk about it with him, I wanted to see him but not for it to get physical. She has admitted to so much, but she can NOT admit this part to herself or to me. Cannot acknowledge that despite both being adults who had just discussed their attraction via text, it was clear what they both wanted and what her intentions were. She said to me "I feel like you won't accept anything I say as true unless I lie and say I wanted intercourse." - which is not true. But I do want a realistic and not sugarcoated admission of how she envisioned the visit going.

This is hard. She might be lying, she might not. The reality is that the way most affairs start (your wife's included) is just spending a little extra time here or there *with no intention of crossing boundaries* even though the thought crosses your mind. "I am special and will maintain my boundaries. I can ride the line between getting these ego kibbles and not doing something that really damages my wedding vows." Even if she didn't have a PA at all, she was betraying you conceptually. Intentionally getting closer to a man with admitted attraction by itself is a betrayal.

I don't know if you've ever had a crush on someone while you have been taken, but you see the other person, your heart flutters. That's fine, and basically impossible to control. Admitting that feeling to your crush is not fine. Choosing to chase that feeling is not fine.

I guess what I'm getting at, is she's doing some of the work, but I am concerned she's missing the important work. She can admit to the acts she committed, apologize endlessly, take responsibility, and I appreciate her efforts and I know she is trying.... but she still can't see herself as someone who made all these choices willingly and knowingly. She just keeps coming back to "I dont recognize myself during those 2 weeks" and neither do I because it was so opposite her character, but I also want more acknowledgement that these were choices willingly made, rather than treating it as some horrible event that happened to both of us which we now have to fight through together.

She is minimizing and attempting to rugsweep. She doesn't want to take true ownership and accountability for the affair. She wants to believe her betrayal is *not really cheating, not like a bad person does* still. She did what a cheater does. Does cheating necessarily mean she is a bad person? That's a whole other question. That's closer to "is cheating a dealbreaker". I decided after being cheated on that it wasn't. I thought before being cheated on, it kind of was. But I also had enough friend in my life who cheated (that I never covered for) that I didn't necessarily think it meant you were a bad person. Just someone that has fallen short of their own ideals for ethics and willpower. If they can't repair that failure inside of them, they will be an unsafe partner, but still not necessarily a "bad person". Just my opinion.

Gently. 2x4 coming. Part of this is your doing. It was recommended early on that you take a harder line with your WW and you kind of pushed that off a bit.

She hasn’t seen your anger. She needs to see your anger!

Her reactions are normal. That is – they are in line with how people tend to react when they have done something they know is wrong, and seriously wrong.
Normal isn’t the same as correct or healthy. Especially not with infidelity.

It’s basically the same behavior be it that someone broke their diet (it was only a SMALL slice of cake, I was really hungry and I have already jogged an extra mile to burn it). It’s justification for doing wrong, minimization of the effects and a speeding of the recovery and amends process.

If she reads here then maybe it can be beneficial for her to understand that if this was "the perfect storm" or a mental lapse or simply some form of "accident" then there isn’t any way she – or even you two – can prevent this from happening again.
People can do all sorts of things to minimize both the odds of being in an accident as well as minimize the damage of an accident. Like in traffic we might avoid roads and junctions with high accident rates, we stick to the legal speed limit, we make certain our vehicle is safe, we use seat-belts… We don’t do this because we intend to crash our vehicle, but rather as precautions.
Same with the "perfect storm". Those dependent on weather monitor forecasts, adapt plans according to forecasts, prepare for bad weather and are equipped to deal with storms.
Same with mental lapses. Those that have issues are often taught to recognize symptoms and take preventive actions.

These precautions can’t always prevent things going wrong, but they both minimize your risk and the possible damage.

Same with her actions leading up to and initiating the affair. They didn’t just "happen". They were a progression, and one she allowed to go on. I wrote the following some time ago on this thread:

Sometimes we can get into bad situations, even those we KNOW are bad beforehand, with no intention of doing anything bad.
Like your wife meeting the OM again. Earlier another poster made the comment that kissing wasn’t infidelity, a comment I don’t agree with. However, you share that they kissed, and then OM came back next Friday and that’s when things got further.
OK – MAYBE your wife too didn’t see "kissing" as "real" infidelity. Maybe she thought she could get away with being fawned over and "innocent" high-school make out sessions. Only it went further.
I can use a comparison: I’m into DIY and I have entered hardware stores with the intention of only looking at a table-saw with no intention of buying one. I can honestly 100% tell my wife that when I entered that store THAT was my intention – look but no purchase. Only to walk out with the top model. Many can maybe relate to going out with friends and only intending to have one beer and stay an hour, only to come crawling home six hours later reeking like a brewery.
Fact is we aren’t always as logical as we like to think we are. Sometimes we are led onwards by the situation. No excuse, at each and every step she had the ability to stop – just like I could have walked out of that store or better yet never entered. But I do believe that she might have let OM in that day with no intention of this going beyond the kiss, and I do believe that she could have stopped before it got further than it did. I just don’t necessarily see either as making this any less infidelity, but I don’t necessarily agree with those that say she invited him in that day with the intention of going all the way.

I will add to the above: No intention of going all the way, but should have been aware of the risk and odds of that happening, and as a sensible married woman should have prevented it by NEVER inviting him back. Just like I should never have entered that hardware store…

I think you are well within your rights (and even should) in sending her back if she minimizes or tries to use any of this perfect storm or mistake or lapse bull-shit. Fact is she decided to allow this to progress.
At the same time you cant really penalize her beyond the damage already caused. It’s not as if doing pushups or whipping will make up for what she did. The penalty is the pain caused and the work required to make that better.

Guilt has a short shelf life. Their pain is nowhere near a bs. If a couple survives the original Dday what comes after will make or break R. Lying, denying, getting tired of bs pain….many things. Some bs have to accept their ws is not marriage material. Some see real improvement and can manage somewhat of forgiveness and R.

We only know the surface of you and barely anything about your wife. Each marriage is so different. Some spouses use sarcasm and put downs and they are hard to live with. I know an actual D because one spouse got so sick of put downs they used an escape affair. Did not stay with AP but remains friends. The bs remarried, the ws is in a long term relationship. Those type of things can poison a M. That is NEVER to excuse cheating. It does explain why marriages break up. If your IC has you look at things it is not to accuse you but to see if the interactions between you and your ws can be improved overall. Sometimes it can and sometimes not.

We had a long conversation yesterday. What is boiled down to is I wanted her to admit to me her thought process and intentions of inviting him over that second time to exchange the check in person. This is something I've gone back to many times. She simply can NOT admit she had intentions of doing it again, and taking it further. Reasons she has given include - I wanted to test myself, I wanted to talk about it with him, I wanted to see him but not for it to get physical. She has admitted to so much, but she can NOT admit this part to herself or to me. Cannot acknowledge that despite both being adults who had just discussed their attraction via text, it was clear what they both wanted and what her intentions were. She said to me "I feel like you won't accept anything I say as true unless I lie and say I wanted intercourse." - which is not true. But I do want a realistic and not sugarcoated admission of how she envisioned the visit going.

I think everyone but your wife can see why you are frustrated and unconvinced about her current stance on the invitation for the second encounter. Your wife is trying to avoid taking responsibility for what she did, which may be human nature, but she is impeding the reconciliation that she wants to happen at an unrealistically high speed.

You feel, equally naturally, that you cannot begin to reconcile until she has admitted the full extent of what she was doing, taken ownership of it, and provided evidence of why she will not do this again if she feels down. The longer she drags this losing strategy out, the more entrenched your positions will become, and the harder reconciliation will be. As such, her defense may become her defeat.

She simply can NOT admit she had intentions of doing it again, and taking it further.

Reality proved that whatever she was thinking when she invited her AP back again, she had no intention of preventing it from happening again, and no intention of not letting it go further. So she let both of those things happen, regardless of whether she was simply excited to invite him round again to see what would happen, or she had a checklist of sex acts with tickboxes and approximate timings prepared. And after the first encounter, what did she think was going to happen when she invited him round again?

Reasons she has given include - I wanted to test myself

Why? She had already failed the test by allowing the first encounter to happen. And then she allowed a second, more active encounter to happen, under test conditions??? And this ignores the elephant in the room, which is why invite him round again to perform any kind of test at all? What did she think she would learn from these 'tests', versus what she actually learned from them? Whatever it was, she is fighting hard not to admit it, accept it, and deal with it.

I wanted to talk about it with him

Again, why? What was there to discuss? She is a married mother with two kids, inviting a man she has already fooled around with for a discussion about...What? Their future? How they are going to make things work? Where they can meet up without getting caught?

I wanted to see him but not for it to get physical

And yet this was the second physical encounter, which (according to her) she was 100% in agreement with and in no way coerced into any physical actions, despite that being against her stated intentions of a pleasant discussion, with perhaps nothing more than light hand holding at most. You have a hard time believing that because it is simply ridiculous, and 99% likely something she invented after the event. If her statement is true, it begs the very obvious question: if she did not want it to get physical, why didn't she prevent that from happening?

She said to me "I feel like you won't accept anything I say as true unless I lie and say I wanted intercourse."

That is the quote that bothers me more than the weak (if natural) statements about her 'expectations', because it makes you the bad guy, and attempts to undermine you. I think she is doing that because you do not buy her stated aversion to, or intention of, anything physical happening, in light of what actually happened. And you are right not to buy into a comforting fantasy that she has created for herself. After the first encounter, she knew what was likely to happen in the second, and when it did, she went along with it without any complaint (despite her stated reservations and lack of desire for anything physical to happen).

A lot of this is obvious to any adult, and I think you have a good and realistic take on this, PFB. What you want is not punishment, but proper accountability and acceptance of responsibility, as part of re-establishing honesty.

Your wife had begun an affair. The first encounter that became physical led to a second. During the second encounter, your wife had some kind of epiphany that burst her fantasy bubble, and the affair was blown off the rails. However, had the epiphany not have happened, events would probably have followed the same course as a thousand other affairs documented in this forum. The brevity of it does not diminish the nature of what had begun.

When your wife says, "I don't recognize myself during those 2 weeks", what she really means is, "I don't want to recognize myself during those two weeks", but that is what she has to do to if she is going to investigate and change the aspects of her personality that surfaced during that time. I hope she can reach understanding that doing so is not punishment, but the necessary work before a solid foundation for reconciliation can be put down.

These are still early days. There are many stories in this forum where it took a wayward spouse a while to 'see the light' and drop their defense, but they got there in the end. Hopefully your wife's IC can help her on that journey, but it something you can raise in MC too, if you decide to continue with that. How your MC responds to that may be very enlightening about their attitude, and may help you decide whether or not to continue with it.

Good analysis on the fact she wont acknowledge her intentions. I do think she may not have been thinking sex specifically but it's obvious she wanted to see him again. Testing herself is really rationalizing.

Excellent analysis above by all, especially Bigger and M1965. I might add more later but I’m posting to ask if you think your wife might post on wayward side. Even with a STOP sign if necessary.

That would be a requirement of considering R for me. Was wondering if you would be willing to do the same with her.

Excellent analysis above by all, especially Bigger and M1965. I might add more later but I’m posting to ask if you think your wife might post on wayward side. Even with a STOP sign if necessary.

That would be a requirement of considering R for me. Was wondering if you would be willing to do the same with her.

I have thought about this a lot. Have not asked her yet but I might.

Good analysis on the fact she wont acknowledge her intentions. I do think she may not have been thinking sex specifically but it's obvious she wanted to see him again. Testing herself is really rationalizing.

Yeah at this point its become a pretty frustrating semantics argument.

I believe she may have even told herself at the time that she didn't plan to do it again. But I want her to look PAST her internal rationalization and tell me what she REALLY thought would happen. I have asked her exactly how she thought this "conversation" would go. And what was said before the physical part started.

She doesnt have good answers for these parts. I don't believe she invited him for.a booty call or something like that, but a "conversation" is absolutely preposterous. This is the part that's really messing with me this week, for whatever reason. She is trying to take full responsibility and she really thinks she IS. The only time she has been defensive in this entire process is with this specific argument about how i dont think she's digging deep enough to her real self, the part that allowed this the first time and wanted it the second time. Maybe its a convo for MC.

I don’t buy her excuses, any FOO, lies. She is an adult capable of knowing and following rules of driving, can get herself to the store and back, handle child care, manage a checkbook and credit cards. She knew what she was doing. She might have felt guilt but the thrill of it was too powerful to say no to herself. Don’t try to get her to explain it. It was limerence and that is very powerful. She wanted to do it so she did.

It was clear immediately that she focused almost exclusively on the parts about reconciliation and rebuilding, while all my notes were more about the trauma of the event and how it makes me feel.

I think this is a pretty common dynamic. Keep in mind, and remind your WW from time to time, that reconciliation is a marathon, not a sprint. It takes most couples about two years or more (sometimes much longer). Before either of you will be ready to get into the real work of reconciliation, you're both going to have to heal and find your individual peace. The respective journeys taken by each spouse are very, very different. So, be patient with yourselves and each other. This shit isn't easy and takes a long time to figure out.

She admitted she does not identify with many of the WS examples in these books.

I think that's understandable, to a degree. here's the thing though. It's all betrayal and it all hurts just the same. You know, 'this one goes up to eleven."

The first person a wayward betrays is himself. Before your wife betrayed you, she betrayed herself. So, whether or not she identifies with what these other wayward spouses did is rather irrelevant when compared to the simple truth that, while she might not have gone very far, she still started down Infidelity Lane.

When it comes to intentions, I'd say it's entirely possible that she had no preconceived idea about what she might do if such and such a situation arose. It's all part of a fucked-up fantasy that every wayward creates in her head. Be careful with assumptions and projection; it only trips you up.

She just keeps coming back to "I dont recognize myself during those 2 weeks" and neither do I because it was so opposite her character,

This seems pretty common to me as well. The problem is, of course, if it was never a part of her character, it would have never happened.

To me, IMHO this is not that complicated, she's a grown married woman with kids, if she didn't want it to happen, it wouldn't have happened the first time, any faithful wife would have immediately pushed back and stop it, especially someone who "over analyzes everything" and has a "zero tolerance" for infidelity, she did in fact demonstrated her "zero tolerance" and divorced her first husband immediately after it happened to her, apparently her "zero tolerance for infidelity is only in place when she's on the receiving end of it.

The fact is she should have never put herself in that position, she KNEW better, but instead she DECIDED to betray you and engaged in flirtatious behavior with OM before the first makeout session, then she went on to remain in contact with OM and plan a second encounter (to "test herself" of course) where she took it a step further and went sexual with him. This is pretty obvious and the fact that she's still maintaining the "I don't recognize myself" and "I was testing myself" theory is absolutely ridiculous, that IMHO indicates she feels more regret than remorse at this point and has a very long way to go.

BTW and maybe I missed it but did you demand she gets tested for STDs/STIs ? if so what were the results ? if you haven't, what are you waiting for ? early detection is essential for treatment, also the "walk of shame" to the doctor's office typically helps with remorse and to drive home the potential ramifications of her huge betrayal, make no mistake about it, she played "russian roulette" with your health. Also you mentioned you had a written timeline, did she do a polygraph test ? if so, what was the result, if not, why not? that also besides the intention of the test itself, it also typically helps with remorse and to help her understand in more ways than one that the trust in her was completely shattered by her infidelity.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 6:02 PM, Sunday, October 9th]