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I appreciate it everyone, I guess what would a good list of boundaries look like?

Based on what I have provided, what do I provide her as my boundaries? What are my expectations for her if we are to continue or attempt to repair?

She thinks that the picture recently was a lapse in judgement, and that it didn't go to anyone. She said she doesn't talk to AP so what else do I want changed, she said she would remove him from FB.

what my course of action moving forward I guess?

A base, non-negotiable of boundaries would be:
1. Total transparency of all modes of communication (e.g. telephone, emails, social media pages, etc). You can check them whenever you want, and all passwords are to be handed over to you.

Other boundaries can be tailored to each situation, but the one above is the fundamental one. This is because it will expose how much the WS wants the relationship, as it is all about them rebuilding your trust of them. The WS is willing to be vulnerable, and is not controlling/manipulating the outcome.

As it is, your WW is justifying her keeping her A going (as long as there is any type of contact with the AP, the A is ongoing). She gives 'reasons' (aka excuses) and you look like you accept them.

Part of the process is that the BS lets the WS know the rules, and the BS starts walking away. If the WS wants to stay in the BS life, they will accept the rules willingly and adapt their own lives accordingly.

The BS keeps walking. Don't be like Orpheus on his way out of Hades.

If the WS wants to be with the BS, they will follow, and eventually catch up and walk beside the BS.

When the WS catches up and walks beside the BS, it will be a sign of a successful R. If not, well.... just keep walking out of Infidelity and into a new life.

Sometimes it takes longer for the WS to catch up, sometimes the WS catches up really fast, some WS don't catch up, and some don't even try. How do you ascertain what the correct amount of time is? By watching (not listening) to what the WS does.

The journey will expose what the WS really wants. If the WS really wants R, they will invest an incredible amount of effort into the relationship. If they are not willing to put in any work, then the relationship is doomed to fail.

One more thing.

How does your WW view a chance at R? Does she view it as a gift, or an entitlement, or does not care for it at all?

The difference would be in the behaviour of the WS.

When the WS views the chance at R is a gift, then they will move mountains to regain the trust and respect of the BS.

If they view it as an entitlement, then it is as good as them not caring for R at all.

1. Total transparency of all modes of communication (e.g. telephone, emails, social media pages, etc). You can check them whenever you want, and all passwords are to be handed over to you.

I talked with my wife last night and explained that I need to set boundaries for what I am okay with, I stated what you said basically complete openness, I already have access to all email accounts, social media, location, and cell phones. She said that I could look at them whenever I want she would just prefer that I be honest, meaning if I feel the need to look into her stuff behind her back be up front about it and just say that's what I need and will be doing, obviously in the past I had told her I wasn't looking thru her stuff (lying I know, not great here) but I was trying to make myself feel better without her knowing. She suggested that if I feel upset, insecure or need reassurance, to just come to her and say I would like to look thru your devices, that way its an honest communication and she will gladly let me.

I did state that I don't like AP being friends on FB, she stated she understands that and has no problem removing him. She stated that when we initially talked about it before I didn't tell her to, which I guess bearing my memory might be right. She did state she thought it wasn't technically necessary because I have access to everything anyway, but she would gladly delete and block him, she said she doesn't even care about FB and would delete her whole FB too, if it made me feel better.

As for talking with AP, she said she doesn't ever talk to him, she said he also has a different job so even in the winter they wont be having any communication, previous in winter being the busy season for them sometimes he would need to give her information about something and vice verse, not anymore.

She genuinely seemed to care when we talked last night and I was more stern and demanding of my needs, and I explained things more intelligently thanks to many of you. She seemed like the R means something to her, she said that she hates herself for what she did because that's not her or something she would do, she is upset that she has made me feel the way I do, and she's upset that it isn't completely better because she wants me to feel better, she said she is willing to do anything that I need to feel better.

She did explain to me more of the things specific to our marriage that made our marriage less than ideal prior to everything, I did explain to her that no excuse is a cause for emotional cheating, which she agreed. But she wanted me to be aware of the things that made our marriage suffer. This includes not being supportive when she lost her job, not being supportive when she had post partum depression, not being supportive when her father passed, etc. The basis of it was that I didn't support, love, and pick her up when she was at rock bottom. Which I can understand without giving you all specifics I might not have been a great husband, and we did argue and fight over it for years. I get where that could be exhausting on her end, still no reason to emotional cheat when you should have just left me. She said at the time the reason she didn't leave was because of the kids, she didn't want to put them thru hell.

I get some of the stuff with the kids because I equally care about the kids above all else. I don't want them to suffer from anything either.

Overall, I felt the talk last night was semi productive, and she genuinely seemed to care, and said she wants to rebuild my trust, and wants this marriage to work. Does this all sound alright or am I missing anything inbetween?

[This message edited by Rebuildingisnteasy at 4:41 PM, Wednesday, September 13th]

It sounds like a healthy conversation and progress to me. Has she read Not Just Friends?

Yeah it seems like it was, and no I don't believe she has read that book

She said at the time the reason she didn't leave was because of the kids, she didn't want to put them thru hell.

Your wife is still full of shit even if things are promising. She wants the kids to grow up with a cheating mother instead of one with a backbone? Well no, she is full of sit like every other cake eater. She wanted to keep her home life and have an exciting affair.

This plus saying "that wasn't me" and subtly blamed you by bringing up her grievances. Not saying you don't have M problems. Saying they are distinct from her choice to cheat. A choice she doesn't own yet.

I have been making my H read articles. I feel like having him read them and then talking about it has helped.
He is a habitual deleter. If she can't be up front with you then you shouldn't have to be up front with her. You need reassurance and respect which she isn't giving you.

How is counseling going?

Yes you have both hurt each other. And I am glad she agreed that her response of cheating in anyway or fashion, was not the proper way to work on the issues in the marriage.

It seems like rebuilding trust is something she is interested in so I am glad she responded as she did. Discussions like the one you had last night should have been the basis of your relationship since day one. You each had to learn this lesson the hard way and perhaps at the jeopardy of losing your marriage and family.

So I would be consistent and clear with the checking her technology. For now, do it every few days. Do it without any warning but openly. At some point in the day say "I’m gonna take your phone for a few mins".

Check in deleted messages. Check all types of messaging apps. Even every month or so run FoneLab software on it to retrieve deleted messages. Ensure you both have find my friends turned on as well.

If it were me, and she worked somewhere that you could just walk in when she goes to the office I would do so unannounced every so often.

That said, I would say honest communication is the best course of action going forward. And I mean brutally honest. From both of you.

I’d ask straight up what she wants and expects from a partner and communicate the same to her. You can’t be scared of divorce. Kids are better off with divorced parents than miserable ones. So I’d to her directly "if one of these guys is who you want to be with, I wo t keep you from that happiness and we can work to end our relationship as soon as possible "

But add to that, "if it’s me you want, and it has to be only me, then you have to be a defender of the marriage and make no one else more important. I will do the same"

Listen to her and what she needs and work on really delivering. Let her know you plan to do that and that you expect the same from her.

What really helped me in my current relationship is saying to myself "this is the person I chose as my partner, why wouldn’t I want to put all my efforts into them as my primary person I want to make happy, above all others". That’s not as easy as it sounds, and that’s why you have to work at it.

But if at the end of the day you are not getting it back from her, then it will be clear that you have to confront her and say something like "it’s obvious I’m not the most important person to you so I am going to move on without you and find the person who believes I am that to them."

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:58 AM, Thursday, September 28th]

Hey all,

Sorry for the long delay, after speaking with my wife and addressing things I wanted to just step away from everything for awhile. I needed to give myself time to re-adjust a little, re-focus and settle, I appreciate all the feedback on here it has helped tremendously.

Since our talk things have been going pretty good I would say. A few days after our talk my wife must had spoken with her mother and filled her in on some details to everything that's gone on in the past year with us, I ended up getting a text from her mother just kind of making sure I am alright, and she did make mention that my wife hates everything she has done and feels horrible about it. She also stated that she had been unfaithful in the past, and if anyone would have given her a second chance she would have gladly taken it and proved how sorry she was. Either way it was a good conversation with her, made me feel better and seemed my wife was showing others remorse too about what she did previously to me.

My wife since the talk has been very forthcoming and understanding of my needs, for example when she does go into the office she keeps me filled in on everything, she doesn't go out on jobs anymore, and basically keeps me posted. I do have access to her location as well through find my, sometimes though the cell service in the area isn't great which leads to the location not keeping updated. There is a few spots in the office where she loses cell service. One time about two weeks ago I checked the location on and it hadn't updated in 20 mins on the people section of find my, which usually means she lost signal in the building, but when I checked a couple minutes later on the device section it showed a ping of her phone at the gas station near her work but the people tab still showed no ping in 23 minutes and her office building. Is this typical of just spotty coverage or something fishy? I am just looking to confirm, maybe I need a better GPS solution instead, but the find my is just easy.

My wife has been forthcoming though when asked about anything, there has been a couple times where she told me she was packing up and about to leave her office building only to not leave till 30-40 minutes later. When she gets home I obviously confront her about it and she told me that every time she's about to leave everyone wants to talk, one time a girl co-worker wanted to chit-chat, the other time it was a girl co-worker and a manager that wanted to talk about some issues at work. Most times everything is good though, how much thought should I be paying this? Should I be asking for something from her?

Also after the talk we had my wife said that she was fine removing AP off Facebook if I wanted, I just haven't made a decision on it yet, I don't want to seem petty and low by having her remove him, because in all honesty there is millions of other ways that a person can communicate unknowingly, but in the past week I did notice he followed her on TikTok (she did not follow him back), I brought this to my wife's attention and she said she didn't even notice he did, and she also said she try's not to think of that low point in her life anymore after I jokingly said man he's stalking you. Should I have any concern here? My wife actively watches TikTok in front of me its not like she's hiding her TikTok account from me or her FB.

When I say everything has felt good between us I mean it, I have asked her how she is doing and feeling about us. She tells me everything has been just about perfect. She goes out of her way to reassure me and make it so I don't overthink things or explains herself without me even needing to ask.

I have left her devices alone for almost a month or two now. I did happen to check things the other day and noticed in her photos that are hidden she has a bunch of quotes saved from Facebook in there as images some from back at the beginning of Sept, and others from recently. Some of the quotes make me ask more questions though, and why are they in your hidden photo album? I will list some of the quotes below

"my favorite kind of pain is the last straw, the last wave of hurt before i finally let go, the kind of ache that cleanses my soul. the loudest of woes, mourning past versions of me, forgiving each one of them, for not knowing any better"

"there are people you meet, who become impossible to forget. They were not sent to you by accident, but instead destined to open a doorway to a different version of your life"

"you steady me and stir me all at once"

"I never wanted perfect love, i wanted yours. whatever flood, whatever drought, whatever windstorm, whatever sunless dreary days, chosen. bloodied. broken. bruised. i wanted yours"

"one day whether your 14, 28, or 65. you will stumble upon someone who will start a fire in you that cannot die. However, the saddest most awful truth you may ever come to find, is they are not always with whom we spend our lives"

"my mistake: i trusted you and loved you truly
my problem: i continue to keep committing the same mistakes"

"I guess it isnt fair to blame you, I kept pouring myself into your palms. Even as i watched all that, I was leaking through your fingers"

I know in the past she says she likes quotes just to like them because they are pretty, but as me seeing these and them being in a hidden album, my question is just why? What's the purpose and what's their significance?

On a last note, About three weeks ago I heard her work phone ding and told her, now mind you I checked before hand and it was AP, I asked who it was and what did they need, she says oh it was just a service tech and they needed this, mind you she didn't specifically tell me it was AP, but he is a tech. I feel like this is a gray area. Also last week my wifes work phone dinged, its AP. I tell my wife hey AP texted you, she goes and looks at it said it was something for work and explains to me what it was, proceeds to ask me if I wanted to see it or not. I said no that's fine and I'm glad you were up front with me. A day later after she offered to show me the text message, I checked the work phone, AP's text messages were deleted and they were deleted from the deleted messages too.. All other messages were seemingly left from other male co-workers, etc. Where do I go with addressing this in a way that doesn't paint me looking through her stuff? What's my concern level here?

Also, weekly I am checking in with her on how she feels, is doing, feels about us. Everything she has said depicts she overjoyed with our relationship and is madly in love with me... I guess I am confused and looking for advice and guidance.

I thought you said her and the AP has no reason to talk even about work things anymore?

Delete him off Facebook, block him on FB and TikTok. She should really have no ties or ways to communicate with him, people can delete messages and delete people then add them again and again.

I want to say she was doing better but the deleted texts and the hidden images are weird. Why hide any image on your phone unless others look at it like your children or you have other bad reasons to.

Next time she asks if you want to read the texts from anyone, just read them. Only way to rebuild trust in my opinion is with proof.

If you want to ask her about the images, as if you can go through her phone with her there and open them up. See what she says.

I thought you said her and the AP has no reason to talk even about work things anymore?

Well her company is currently struggling to find people like most companies are, with that said there are some things (very few) that they need to communicate on most things being just an account number and if it’s all set or not.

I was going to have her block him on FB, and remove him on TikTok. But then idk if it’s silly considering she has a work phone where technically she could text him on there.. I guess what I’m saying is does it even matter if he’s blocked on FB or TikTok?

Yeah, I don’t quite understand the hidden pictures of quotes.. idk how to take that. I could ask to see her phone and then "find" them then, but I can already hear her answer, well these quotes are pretty and I like them so I saved them. But I guess the real question why hide them in your hidden pictures? If I was guessing she would say something along the lines of because I figured you’d overreact and think something of them if you seen them in my normal pictures even though I just like the quotes because they are pretty.

The most concerning thing is mainly the conversation with AP, I should have just said I’ll look at it, but I didn’t. She did offer, but like why out of all the people you text on your work phone if the message was innocent and you were gonna show me, why are you deleting it and also deleting it from your deleted?

I just hate trying to always pre judge everything I want to give her an honest shake and think it’s nothing nefarious but it’s hard after someone does you wrong. I’m at the point where I feel like I should just ride the wave and be the best I can and whatever way she steers the ship we go, if she wants to sink it so be it.

As for the location stuff anything I should be concerned about? I guess how do I proceed, what should I be doing? I’m sick of constantly feeling like I’m living in the past, I want to move forward and just either give it my all and it either works or doesn’t.

Everything might be fine and I may just be overthinking things, that’s the killer here.

I told her when we talked the last time that if I ask how things are to be honest, I also told her if this doesn’t work out or if she doesn’t want to be with me just be honest and we will move on. I just hope that at the very least she is being honest that she is genuinely that happy with our marriage and everything is good.

I just overthink and worry that’s not the case, based on those quotes.

She could be proactive, and block him on Facebook, but she hasn't.

He's following her on Tik Tok, because they're still talking.

He called her because they are still talking.

He sent her a text because they're still talking.

She deleted that text because she didn't want you to know they're still talking.

She's also love bombing you,to distract you.

It sounds like the affair is underground. Start digging. Stop asking her questions.

Im sorry.

That very well could be true, but the problem is where do I dig and what do I dig for if everything is deleted?

Second, at what point do you take a person at face value again? When do they earn that right back?

Prior to the incident with AP, she’s never cheated prior, granted that anyone knows about. But I can honestly say that I don’t think she did ever before. She always says it was way out of her character to do what she did, and that’s not who she is.

Rebuilding,

Given everything you wrote your WW should be open to a polygraph, since she believes she makes good money the cost should not be an issue. Have her write out a timeline for her affair.

One other test which will tell you something is to get an STD test for yourself, if you find that you have syphilis and you have not had physical contact with anyone else you know it's her.

Save off all the evidence you have and expose to OMW, don't warn or threaten or your WW and OM will paint you as a crazy.

Are you DNA sure your kids are yours?

You said your Mother in law texted She also stated that she had been unfaithful in the past, and if anyone would have given her a second chance she would have gladly taken it and proved how sorry she was.

Was it your Mother in law referring to herself or her daughter, if your WW had cheated in prior relationships she may be a serial cheater, or someone who enjoys engaging in pre-affair behavior, flirting and fantasying.

Hey all,
My mother in law was referring to herself sorry I didn’t clarify that on the last post, and yeah I have had STD tests done and I am clear of everything there. Polygraph would make sense, I guess even just to bring it up would probably scare the truth out. Is there other ways of digging things up? I guess do those hidden quotes even matter or am I thinking into that too much?

Also, do I just demand that she block AP? And then just keep an eye on her work phone? Any and all of the advice is appreciated, thanks.

Also, do I just accuse her of love bombing me? How do I differentiate love bombing for actual caring?

Is AP married or in a relationship?

Rebuilding,

Love bombing, from my experience, does not last.

My best guess is because it arises out of fear of losing you, but often not you as a lover, but as a provider, comforter and etc. I would have to believe sometimes it's because she loves you.

Given time WW will return to her baseline attraction to you she had before the affair, that time will vary with my WW it was about a week. Possibly that was enough time for the guilt to wear off or for her to construct an alternate internal story in her head.

[This message edited by survrus at 9:51 PM, Monday, November 6th]