SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So sorry about your cat. Take the time to grieve the loss- pets are important.

And Take care of you. Start shifting your focus from her to you. She’s made a mess and it is up to her to fix it. You need to save yourself.
I am so sorry she betrayed you. You are doing really.well getting yourself out of infidelity, even if it doesn’t feel that way.

Hang in there.

One of the next phases is called love bombing, where she will want to shower you with all kinds of attention and be very sweet. It's intermittent reinforcement and is a manipulative tactic. This can also cause you to become trauma bonded, which is very similar to co-dependency. Dr. Ramani has a really good YouTube that discusses the brain chemistry involved, but she puts it in easy to understand terms.

Leafields, you were spot on! Thanks for the tip! Helped me to understand today´s events.

Normally I would do the litter boxes of the cats if she is away, though due the events of yesterday I was not able to so went today. She asked whether she could get me anything, whether I need anything at my parents place. She kind of got mad when I refused a drink. I asked for my other coat and a book with protocols for the upcoming horse riding event as in fact I do need those items. Along those she gave me some self-care items I didn´t request. She said she was crying due the cat passed away, he ment a lot for her and she didn´t had many pictures of them both. That she feels responsible for his death. I tried to be kind, while not being too caring while doing my job there.

After finishing my job there, I asked her whether she saw the mail from the mediator requesting another appointment. She said she already answered that. Checked my mail though she didn't cc me. Then she said: "You know, we can always stop." "Stop what?" I asked. "The divorce, its not over till we both signed we can come back from it. It was never my wish to divorce. I still do not want to. I cooperate but I still think we can save our marriage together with God. He can fix anything." I replied: "I believe its best for us to follow this course, after the divorce we can heal and then see what happens next." She continued "I know we can fix it together with God. Two fight two to blame." I was like really? So I asked "What do you think I am to blame for?" "Our marriage wasn't that great for quite a while." (She blames me for it? Blame shifting? She doesn't even name her own fault once in the conversation.) I just said: "I have to go to my grandma."

We exchanged some more words, she trying to give regards to my family. I didn't want to lie and tried to explain in our situation they are not happy to receive it. Then she got defensive, like what did you tell your family. So I just left.

I have been reading on Narcissists and a few vids of Dr. Ramani, and it all makes sense now. I just wished it wasn't. Googled properties of a Covert Narcissistic wife and it was terrifying how well it described my WW.

- Buying fancy stuff using money from the shared account. Not giving me access to her account. The tanddrums when I said no to something.

- Keeping up appearances, she want to look her best wherever she goes. Also expects me to look on my best. She always wanted me to get a six pack.

- Hates to loose in a game and manipulates others in order to get some advantage.

- Claim items gifted to me, without asking.

- Gets really defensive when criticized.

- When ever someone is visiting she suddenly help with chores and is attentive, while normally not.

- She didn't like when I attended a company event, saying she will miss me every time.

- She always thinks she knows better. Talking about how she would handle mistakes from others.

- When something happens she is dramatic and plays the victim. (I really start to question the circumstances that lead to her moving in with me and us being married.)

- She is very critical if I make a mistake or doing something differently than she would. Though when she makes a mistake she tries to brush it off.

- Giving me the silent treatment till she needs me.

- The attention seeking.

No wonder after the accident she claimed I was changed. I could never live up to the fantasy image in her mind. It also gave her another way to control me by claiming I am forgetful ever since.

This person probably never existed. Given the amount of lying and gaslighting, she was wearing a mask and now you're learning who she really has been all along.

I found that hard to believe, though the signs are there. Was the marriage ever healthy?

It all add up.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 9:54 PM, Saturday, March 9th]

Deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender (DARVO) is when she turns things around and blames you. In her mind, it keeps her from punishment or repercussions of her actions. And it's a way to minimize what she's done.

I questioned my whole M and the circumstances around it because my XWH was so good at leading me to believe things that weren't the truth. I wondered if my whole life had been a lie. What helped me was when I took my XWH out of the memory. When I was happy, I was happy. When I was sad, I was sad. I lived as authentically as I could with the information that I had. So, my life was not a lie. XWH? Well, he has a different story.

Hang in there, and just know that it does get better.

Things about the marriage start to make a bit more sense, learning how people with NPD and Borderline think. The problems with self reflection part. Promises which were never met, after some betterment still ending up with me doing almost all the chores. Asking me to do more things the way she wants it. When I ask help in return, she temporary do better. It never be good enough. She is happy when I do well at work, though that might have to do with my income. Seems like she sees me as a caretaker, a source of income, a shoulder to cry on. Still have many questions though.

I just wonder how to see favors from her side. Looks like she is trying to do some favors. She bruised her ribs 3 weeks ago, according to her physiotherapist a muscle might be teared. (From a collision?) Anyways she doesn't feel fit to do horse riding, something we both do. The stables is where we met. Now we ride in separate lessons, she in our old one me in a different one. She offered that I can ride in her place as she is still recovering. Kind of her, and otherwise that lesson will be wasted.

I love riding and seeing my old group again. (Most are unaware what is going on besides us being separated, as WW tries to hide the D) Problem is I have mixed feelings about accepting her favors. Is she really unable to ride. Does she try to gain something with it? Last week neither of us went as we were both emotional due our cat. The week before I went in her stead too. That day I noticed something odd. I had a gut feeling so when returning I drove past our house which isn't far from my parents place and she wasn't home. According to her mom she went skating. Last week too when our cat died, I went on a walk through town in the evening to clear my head and again I noticed her car gone while she said she was too emotional to go riding.

So I am not sure what to think of this favor of her. Is it an excuse to go somewhere else? An attempt to hoover me back in? Both?

My gut feeling says she is deceiving her mom. Maybe seeing someone again. At the same time tries to win me over to quit the D. Not sure what to think of it.

Well, she's given you no reason to trust her, so may as well assume the worst. Besides, you're divorcing her, right? Sounds like she's just gonna go skank it up since she might know in her heart that the marriage is done.

I wouldn't be surprised Icedover84, despite the claims she has changed. She wasn't been herself in the period of DDay and after. Medicine, therapy and God will prevent it for ever happening again. (I kind of doubt it) It hurts when she says that. I think I keep writing here to vent and try to make sense of things.

What worries me that if she is seeing someone, how can she claim to want me back. If she has me back what then, dumping the OP, keep secrets?

Maybe she speaks the truth. She distanced herself from the person she was. NC with the men she texted, no new A. She is just trying to survive and hope I reconsider.

I find it hard to believe her, after everything she did. I believe D is the only way out, to make me feel safe again.

Last weekend she reached out to a friend of mine at the stable.

Asking her whether she can ask me to reconsider. Giving the arguments that she is changed and stuff. Another textbook response.

We had another meeting with the mediator for the D at our place. I was a little early and noticed she wasn't home yet. So I texted I was already inside so she wouldn't freak out to find the door unlocked. Then she texted back. "For what?" She genuinely forgot the appointment thinking it was on another day. Texted back it was today after double checking, she requested this date herself. Then just as the mediator arrived she called. She was on her way to get some cheap fuel over the border and turned around. (30 min+ drive) would be here in 10 minutes. It took her 20 to get back. (Wondering why she texted while driving instead of calling me) Arriving at home she first changed her clothes as she was in working uniform. I hear her Yelling (in the phone?). She was pissed. Not sure she called her mom or someone else. Back downstairs she seemed a bit stressed though tried to hide it.

Anyways we discussed the next steps and how to divide property and stuff. At the end she seemed a bit more calm and a bit more generous than at the start of the meeting.

After the mediator left. She again said she is changed. And acknowledged that the things she said and did were wrong. Although it wasn't a full confession, as she didn't change her story. It was the first time she gave some remorse of her actions after the confession. Admitting her actions has hurt me. Not just a sorry, but a sorry for what she did.

Still giving the mental disorder the blame and assuring with medicine, therapy and God it would not happen again. Then she preached how God doesn't like divorces. I said I won't change my mind. Things are too broken, things she did were not oke. And she admitted that. It doesn't change my mind, though I am glad she at least shows some remorse instead of denying everything.

I am glad if the D is finalized, and we can move on.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 11:59 PM, Monday, March 18th]

She's not complicated but her lies and deceit are. She's just your ordinary everyday lying cheater

She’s lived a life of bullshit. You’ve lived a life of trust. You cannot win playing her game. She will always be better at it. She’s spent her entire marriage to you practicing lying and deceiving you. She’s an expert. You have been her multi-year project.

To paraphrase a quote, the best time to have never met your WW is when you first met her. The second best time is now.

She is an expert lyer, skilled at deceiving. Sometimes I have the feeling she believes her own lies to keep up appearances. To keep up appearances is what she does.

To see our Marriage as a multi year project of her, I do not know. I certainly hope not. That I was an escape, an opportunity.

She once showed me an entry from before I initiated the relationship in a dairy of her. In it she had a discussion with herself, whether she has feelings for me or it was some unobtainable fantasy. Also whether I love her back or that is a fantasy too. Questioning could it be?

When I confessed my love to her she first didn't understand thinking I spoke of friendship. When I explained I had romantic feelings she needed some time to process it unsure how to react. She confessed she had feelings too. The start of our relationship was slow. Though sped up when she was getting more comfortable.

2 years in our marriage I had my accident, hit my head badly in November 2019. Afterwards she felt more distant. She said she do no longer have the butterflies for me, still love me. But missed the initial spark. The intensity of it. When we had sex, she said she did it for me, a spouse is supposed to have sex so I do not seek it with someone else. In retrospect I wonder whether she was projecting her own feelings on me. Doesn't mean she had an A back then. I did my best to satisfy her, for me it feels like failure if I cannot. I did make her come almost every time. Even though she felt like it didn't had the same punch to it. Sometimes she claimed it's her and not me.

She also stated a few times she regret marrying me as I am not a Christian. But also state she still love me, stating she only feels sorry for God. When I got baptized she felt lucky, as it's rare that a non Christian spouse gets baptized. Though she also felt she didn't deserve it, as others were not so lucky. And she knew I was becoming a better Christian then herself. She wasn't very active, didn't do prayers and such. 9 weeks later according the timeline I suspect to be true she betrayed me. 3 months later according her claims.

Really not sure how to view that. She got what she wanted, or thought she wanted. Later she confessed she experienced something with OP, she never had with me as he was more sexually experienced. Or feeling that were long gone.

I feel used as I did everything for her. I did almost all the house chores, served her on command. Also financially she kept spending, putting the majority of the costs of living on my shoulders. I was happy if we didn't overspend. Tried to slow her down to prevent financial problems. I feel like there was ample room to buy stuff for myself. She didn't stop me though if I did but If I did she didn't spend less so I could spend some. While she was saving money on her account.

Now mediation came up with an unfair amount of Partner support I have to pay her. It would mean I would need to give up horseriding in order to get by. I feel like something went wrong with the calculation around the company car, giving me a higher spendable income than I actually have.

I want to fight it, claiming it to be unreasonable. Also in light how she treated me. I hope she Comply with a lower amount. Our county doesn't do fault. Though in cases of serious misbehavior from the receiver it can be adjusted by judge. Though I am unsure her misbehavior is severe enough or provable in court

With mediation its up to us to settle with an amount.

I just hope she complies otherwise I do not know what to do. I do not want to spend another 3 years working my ass off, not able to spend something as she receives the lion share again.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 11:15 AM, Friday, March 22nd]

Small update. I mailed mediation to make the amount of support negotionable. Also texted WW I find it too much, that I send the mail. Her reaction: 'It is quite taxing financially for you.'

Decided we would speak in person to discuss it further.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 1:31 PM, Friday, March 22nd]

@kindnesshasalimit, and now you get to see the bright truth for all that it is.... "Christians" are the biggest fucking hypocrites on the planet. Almost all of them. At least the ones who are loud about it. If anyone tells you how important their Christian faith is to them, you can pretty much guarantee they're hiding some serious shit in their closets.

Icedover84 you have a p.m.

I hope that mediation goes well for you.

she preached how God doesn't like divorces

I always checked when people cherry pick. Guess what God hates? Cheating. That's why 30% of the 10 commandments apply to deceit. It always kills me how conveniently righteous people get when faced with the consequences of their choices.

She said she do no longer have the butterflies for me, still love me. But missed the initial spark. The intensity of it.

Yup, there you have it. You will never be able to compete with her toxic snd unhealthy view of relationships, which my guess, formed early on in her developmental period.

I had a GF after my S, and I would say that we were 80-90% compatible. She even pulled out a must have list which was 2 pages long, saying I checked off nearly everything. But nope, she didn't get it all, so back to the pond with me. Note: she's still single.

Some people are just incapable of being happy. They are just wired for discontent. Give them a wide birth and wish them well.

It will take time after you fully disengage, but you will detox and as you do, you will gain increasing clarity to what your life was. Be prepared for some WTF moments as you digest your life's narrative arc.

It will take time after you fully disengage, but you will detox and as you do, you will gain increasing clarity to what your life was. Be prepared for some WTF moments as you digest your life's narrative arc.

I already had quite some of those. Things that I thought where oke, which were not. I do not understand her game.

Yesterday eve I went to the house to clean the litter boxes of the cats. Also had a talk to her that didn´t went well. Also mediation is not helping. Their goal is to secure a living for both of us, regardless of circumstances. As my WW only have a part time job, a zero hour contract. Her income is way less than mine and according to the models I have to pay to my full capability. (Which feels unfair as I have to give up horse riding or hope I do not have extra expenses) However we have to option to agree on a lesser amount.

I arrived just after dinner, she looked tired and claimed she just returned from work. (As far I understand she works from early in the morning to halfway in the afternoon) I was cleaning the litter boxes and noticed the cats ran out of water, so I made a comment about that intending to refresh it. She refreshed it, stating it was odd as she refreshed it not so long ago and the cats went outside today. Making me to believe the statement she just returned to be false. Power consumption from the house also supports she was home halfway the afternoon. I doubt she had someone over as the wedding pictures had not moved, though I do not understand why she would lie about that. Has she just a tendency to lie even if it doesn't make sense to do so?

Anyways she started talking about that she didn't earn that much with her parttime job, that if the D is finalized she will have trouble making a living. She couldn't work full time. That I am lucky to have a stable job. I said that even though I work hard have a good job, I cannot enjoy the fruits of my work because everything I earn goes to either to costs of living or her with the current plan. That I have to quit horse riding. She stated she have to give up horse riding too. She will receive a huge sum of money from the house to start over, she could live on that for a while but it takes her only that far.

I said I felt used, as I did the lion share of the household payed for the costs of living and then being betrayed by her. She admits she was wrong but that she wasn't herself. She also reminded me of a misbehavior on my side in the past early marriage. (Which I admit I did something stupid out of frustration, shouldn't have done it but its not what she claims. I can imagine it can appear that way though) That after the accident she took care of me, she felt like she had to live for 2 persons. She drove me anywhere, true but I did the same for her when we were diagnosing her early marriage. That I leave a trail of unfinished chores and she had to clean after myself. (Not how I remember it, she claims my memory was not working properly. Which was partially true, though the accident impacted short term not the long.) As adviced from revalidation, I stoped when I was reaching the max to take some rest and continue later. She insisted doing things her way, which simply did not work for me in this state. Tried to balance out work, which demanded I made my hours, house chores and giving some attention to her. Still did my share of the house hold though with a somewhat slower pace. She also claimed I changed intimately and romantically and she felt like living with a stranger. In retrospect I think I just didn't live up to her image.

I asked for a lower partner support, told her a lower amount than what I was aiming for, though she remembered me saying that I was thinking about a certain amount I told I expected during a meeting. Which is my max I am comfortable with. Asked her whether she could agree on that. I got an inconclusive answer from her, as she responded with what if I don't agree. I answered that then we have a problem. She stated there is no outcome we could part on good terms. She said she feels like a victim of a situation out of her control, because of the bi-polar mania she wasn't herself. Being in a D she doesn't want to be in.

She preached again that its better to stay together. God doesn't want D. Even if he allows it, it doesn't mean it should be done. I said I do not change my mind. Things are too damaged between us. We simply do not work. Then she was like I am the best thing happend to her. I am not just her partner but her soulmate. She wouldn't find anyone like me. Someone who she feels comfortable with. Someone who accepts her disorders and shortcomings. She will not be able to live but just survive till she dies. Assured me again that she wasn't be herself and it will never happen again, as long we have faith and each other. And through medication and therapy. Said she doesn't care about the money, but just me. And is willing to do whatever she requires to do to win over my trust again.

Also asked me what my opinion is if she donated the money she received from the house to our church. I was like well its your money if you want to donate it I have nothing to say about it. Also wondered what she tried to gain by this. Then she pressed me what do I really think. I have no opinion really. Rationally I would rather have that she invested it in a new living so she can move on. I noticed a small grim when I said that. Not sure what to make from it. Was she testing my faith? Or wanted to draw out a reaction? Trying to show me how much she cared about God?

She assured again that God will help us rebuild the marriage. I said he can also help you rebuild your life without me. And she just said no to that. I said I cannot trust you. She asked again what I need to make me trust again. I responded I do not know, even if you did I am not sure if I can trust you again. She pressed again. So I said for starters I need a full confession. Did she sleep with one more more guys. She stated she has no recollection of the events, that is happened in a state of mania from her bi-polar disorder. As far she knows it was just the ONS, which I suspect is a lie. Well that is getting us nowhere.

I was about to leave for some time now, and I really wanted to get out now. She said she was proud of me. That I was a good christian. She cherries when I do acts of faith, when I make a contribution to the program. That I was so strong, strong enough to make the marriage work.

My fear is she will draw this out. I hope she agrees with a lower partner support, but I fear she will use it to stall. Again she left me confused about the whole situation. Not knowing what to believe, or what is really going on inside of her. She she playing with me again, because she fears to loose her way of living. Is she honestly trying to reconcile? Is she honestly not able to remember the events? Will things really be different if we try again?

It all feels like such a gamble. Doubt she will confess a new occurrence. I have read the odds, which are not good. Even with medicine and therapy. Chances are slim she will truly change. I fear she is stable now because the situation puts her in a depressed state. I fear what happens if she gets out of this. I fear when something occurs again after R I truly will loose the will to live. Feel like the only safe route is to D.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 4:47 PM, Tuesday, March 26th]

She is manipulating and lying to you. Even about the water for the cats.

Is there some reason she can't clean the litter boxes? Why do you have to make a special trip over there to do that? Can she really not work full time?

Get an attorney, get out of mediation, and get serious about the money. She does not have your best interest in mind.

I still hope she complies. Not looking forward to take things to court. Considering to ask for some legal advice if we cannot agree. As far I understand misbehavior is subjective. It heavily depends on circumstances and what can be proved in court. Of course she will tell her sob story aswell. I do have some witnesses for some events, a pile of circumstancial evidence. But what can I really prove, and will it be enough. Also not looking forward prolonging the D.

As taking care of the litter boxes. We only live 500 meters appart now. We tried letting her take care of that. When I was fetching some stuff she asked whether I could clean the litter boxes. They were in a terrible state. She also said the cats puked a lot at the time and were quite stressed. She couldn't stand the smell and the medicines were making her nauseous (It is a side effect) So we came with this agreement that I do this, giving me some time to spend with the cats. I do it for the cats to be honest.

Odd thing now she wants some of the cats, although she is uncertain she will find a place that allows pets. If that happens I won't be going to her place to clean the litter boxes.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 12:08 PM, Tuesday, March 26th]

Your wife’s complexity is to due to leading two lives, an inner life in an outer life, that are different from each other. In short she lives a lie. It’s hard work trying to remember what’s going on in both of those lives, trying to keep each consistent for their respective audiences .

Honest open people aren’t complex like that .What you see is what you get. You know where they stand. You can trust them.

Sending strength, KHAL!

You should be using her desire to R to get an advantage in the divorce. Get favorable terms and you might be amenable to working things out in the future. She fights you, you still divorce and never talk to her again. Plus, it’s also a great indicator of if she really wants you or the life you provide.

Small update. She finally seems to realise it is over. Storing some of my stuff from the common areas of our house. Preparing for a live after D.

Made a discovery of dishonesty today. She invested in a new interest, while I was sending over money for living. We had a talk about finances earlier this week where she mentioned money was tight and whether I could pay my share of the invoice in advance. I felt financially used as whatever I saved half of it would be hers, while she keeps spending whatever income she has. Talked about it over the phone and made some agreements about finances that is favorable for our both I guess.

We agreed that we do not make claim on whatever we save or spend now. That allows me to save money to replace the items she takes with her. And she to spend without her having to justify to me. Along with some other small agreements about how to divide. The unfavorable deal that was on the table is now gone. She still have to confirm by mail though. According to my calculations she doesn't end up so badly while keeping it affordable for me.

In addition she asked me to keep her new interest to myself. That I do not share it with others. An interest shared by someone from who I believe she slept with btw. A bit sketchy if you ask me. Reason she gave me is that her mom does not agree. (A bit odd reason as her mom was already partly aware when I checked on her today. And the plan is if she cannot find a house of her own she will temporary move in with her mom. So she will find out regardless)

Apparently saving face is a motivator. She still wants that little people know about the divorse. I am relieved and a bit surprised we could talk about the current deal and settle with something more fair.

[This message edited by KindnessHasALimit at 6:32 AM, Saturday, April 6th]

In the most gentle and purely intended to help YOU way...

Your wife isn’t really that complex.
What is complex is how you allow her to still so heavily impact your life.

It seems that each interaction she brings a new ninja-star to throw at your life. Now involving you in lying to her mom and involving you thereby into a new interest and somehow mixing that into the finances.
You come over as a very good and moral person. I fear she might be feeding and playing on your kindness and maybe even naivety. These are all good character-traits, but if you allow her to roll over them again and again... Instead protect who you are and work on your own personal growth. Best way to do that is to distance yourself – physically, legally, financially, socially... – from her. If that requires taking the cats full-time OR losing them full-time, if that requires no horse-riding for a year, if that requires attending another church or other masses/meetings, if that requires swallowing a reasonable cost for the divorce... Do it.
It's only for a season, and your outlook to life can be totally different in six or twelve months from now.