SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ink, I know it feels like a waste and a shame. But maybe it would have been a waste of all you have to offer to continue on in this fools errand. you have so much to offer and it will be good for your kids to see you growing into your full potential (whatever that is LOL 😂). But I bet it will be great!

Definitely some of the deepest sadness that I’ve ever felt coming out. Feels like a death, one that I am choosing. My mind is racing to find any reason to hope, any reason to try again. It’s finding none, but a month ago it would have. To anyone who thinks I should have called it long ago, I just couldn’t have.

The thing about this place is we don’t know each other. Everyone arrives here not knowing what to do or where to start. And we don’t know anything you don’t tell us which is a lot when you think about the vastness and complexity of life.

We all have our different time frames. I don’t think any time frame is excessive if it’s what it takes. Most Ws and bs don’t heal quickly. Most of us have a multi-layered reason for trying to reconcile.

You sound as if you let the people here down, and that’s the last thing you need to be worrying about or feeling right now. Some people need to give it their all before they can go, some people know more quickly they can’t stay. Fighting for your family is a noble effort.

And while your wife has not gotten where you need her to be, there was work being done there that led you to wait. I would like to think that will still benefit your kids, her, and even you. Same with you, it took you a long time to recover enough to focus on what you need.

I almost think of the first year for most as recovery. So I don’t see this as you wasted a lot of time or that you failed anyone. Getting out of infidelity is pain no matter what path you take. Keep focusing on your healing. I hope both of you will continue to work on yourselves. I think both of you deserve a shot at a happy life even if it’s not with each other.

I am sorry you are hurting, Ink. I suspect adding to that is the anxiety of telling the kids looming because suddenly doing that makes it more real, more cemented.

I don’t think people often have a realistic time frame. It took what it took. It will still take what it takes. Give yourself grace. Saying a prayer for you and your brood.

Maybe this is me numbing again by being intellectual instead of feeling my sad, I know Sisoon already scolded me for that but old habits die hard. I just feel this sense of urgency that comes out of so many posts, and I’m thinking of those in the throes of it now and those who will come next. I’m sure there is a place to nudge those suffering toward action, but the human soul needs time to grieve these things. I want this community to hold that space.

Ink,
Often people come to the S/D forum and ask how will they know when to pull the plug. The answer is always "you will know when you know" and not any sooner. It took me a year. Others take longer, some know sooner.

There are many factors that influence the time you can give, the reasons for trying longer, etc. We just want to help people get out of infidelity in the healthiest way possible for them. So remove that burden - you did what you needed to do.

And maybe it feels like you are choosing this. Technically that may be true, but really your WS left you know choice at all. Because you have to get out of infidelity to survive and thrive and be the parent you want to be. And your WS didn’t hold up her end of the bargain. Think of it as you two in a canoe. If only you are paddling, you’ll just go in circles. You need to get to shore.

This sucks and it hurts and we all wish for you (and often ourselves) that there could have been a different outcome. But you can only play the cards you are dealt.

Hang in there.

One day it won't feel this way (((InkHulk))) It is so difficult to come to the decision of ending a long marriage with kids. It's excruciating. So much so that I stayed in limbo 5 years after False R and after many A's and broken NC's. We are all doing the best that we can and get to where we need to be on our own timeline.

It's very rare for a marriage to become "better" and "more successful" after an A. Obviously these things are possible as we have many members here who have achieved this but for many of us it is fears come to realization, depression, anger, sorrow and disappointment.

One thing I agree with on this site is that there are only 2 ways out of infidelity and that is to R or D. Limbo keeps you stuck in the muck and I get it I earned the badge for it

IHS is tricky I don't suggest doing it unless you really have to. If you can keep minimal contact and the emotions at bay you will do ok. When there is a manipulative spouse it can be pure hell.

Life gets better after deciding to end a M that is broken. It takes time but there is something magical in finding yourself again and getting a new lease on life. I have not regret my decision once since I have made it.

Hope your holiday went well and that you have better days ahead.

I want this community to hold that space.

I understand why you say this. Believe me, I do.

However, it’s impossible that we are all going to honor that one way.

For some people, they only believe you don’t stay with someone once they cheat. They have good intentions, some of them believe R works for others, some think it never works. They don’t don’t want you to feel pain or make any concessions to the ws for one minute longer.

For others, they are in the throes of it and you might get a mix of their pain, uncertainty, but they are showing up giving you support.

Some have reconciled and know it’s possible if two people want it. Some have R’d with ws and got burned and they don’t want you to experience the pain of that.

And most of us will encourage you to look at and focus on your healing.

I could go on and on, but what I do think happens is there are very few that say stop wasting your time in comparison to the vast number of other poster’s messages. I think the truth is probably you felt pressured to make a decision or get a positive result (most bs do this) and the reason those voices are louder to you is because either you knew somewhere they were right, or more than likely they touched on your fears and triggers.

It makes me wonder if you still feel rushed and why? Not an answer for me but for you to think about. You are sensitive to the time frame. There is a lot to be said for what happened in the time you were here that might not have happened if you ended things earlier:

-you explored your Foo and worked on your co-dependency.

-you learned what it is you are looking for and not looking for

-you spent a lot of time in the same house as a family and got your kids 10 percent more raised.

-you learned that you want a different marital and sexual culture and maybe even learned ways you can contribute to that differently.

-you gave it time that you needed

I am sure you could write a lot more things here, and maybe don’t find some of the things I wrote as pluses. My point is you don’t put emphasis on things that people say unless they bother you or trigger you for a reason. Especially people who don’t know you and don’t know your wife.

At any rate, therr is no way to get everyone on the same page because we come here with vastly different experiences and backgrounds. What we always preach is the truth- take what you need and leave the rest.

The truth is if I had my way it wouldn’t be about timelines. It would be removing the focus from any outcome and focusing on individual healing/work. It’s time that is never spent wasted. The outcome will come from the work. I think the time you spent in EMDR started a journey for you and you would not have done that without waiting on the decision. And it might have been that work that helped you decide you deserve more.

And truth is, while you will still have the support from most of us even if you decide you still aren’t ready. You do not need anyone’s permission to take more of your time, less of your time, or for anything else. You are a grown man who can easily ignore things that don’t resonate for you. I have watched you reject many things without internalizing it. Why is the time frame something that you can’t reject? I would propose not because of the people here, but because it resonates for you in some way.

I think it’s a matter of giving yourself the grace. And holding space for yourself. The community is here to bring all our experiences to one place so you have lots of theories, nuggets of healing and the benefit of kind humans listening.

I would bet if I went back (not going to do this) and tallied up all your responses that you have gotten here 75 percent was supportive and helpful, 10 percent was off base, and the remaining 15 would be prompts asking what are you waiting for. And of that 15 percent probably 95 percent of those came from people who didn’t want to see you suffer a minute longer. They are probably divorced, and probably find the life they have happier than before and they want the same for you. Good luck deterring them from trying to help!

So maybe dig into your issue with your time frame, because I think you will find that there is some part of you that feels like you should have been better or stronger somehow. As for those of us who follow and care about your story, we disagree. We give you the grace you won’t give yourself.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:00 PM, Monday, April 1st]

You are just like everyone on here with very few exceptions. You want what you had or what you thought you had. It is human nature to want to get out of the pain as soon as possible, but want to hang on to what they already know and going forward into new territory is terrifying. It takes some people years to let go and others walk out the same day. Each one of us has had to make a decision or 20 of them. My husband cheated very early in our marriage and we were both very young. There are many years between then and now, and a lot of groundwork was done. I trust him now. I did not for a long time. On top of that he traveled so I never knew what he was up to. When I confronted him years later, he admitted it but by then we were two different people. The only reason I’m telling you this is because my story is not like anybody else’s and none of those are alike. Your story is unique to you. No one here should have an opinion about what you should, and should not, do even though we do it all the time. Human nature is trying to help you get out of pain and sometimes we overstep by doing what we want you to do. On the other hand, there lots of folks here, who have reconciled and are doing just fine, but they will tell you their memory is still there of what the pain was like. I tell this to people all the time and I might’ve even said it to you. Just do the next thing. Don’t look at the big picture, just do the next thing.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 6:26 PM, Monday, April 1st]

Hikingout, if by chance you ever decide to become a therapist, please sign me up as your first client.

Ok, yes, even in an anonymous forum, I feel self conscious about being indecisive. And you are no doubt correct that that says far more about me than it does about all of you. What it means, I’m not sure today, an opportunity for self learning for another day.

Today she is asking me if I am sure enough to tell the kids and I’m petrified by that. In her not wanting the D, me driving it, her still telling me she loves me and wants me (but doing nothing to actually back that up), it is like a special sub-chapter of my worst nightmare. Me intentionally acting to disassemble our family, taking away my children’s home, while the woman that I have loved for 20 years, and still love, painfully weeps in front of me. Add to that that I think there is some kind of trauma induced illness here in her and the pity that injects, this is going to rip my heart apart.

Oh Ink, I'm so sorry. Seems like this is the time to ask a good therapist, IRL if you can find one, about what when and how to tell the kids.

Please don't let her use this as a weapon against your tender heart. After all, as you just said, her actions speak to her inability to do what she is saying she "wants" to do.

Many here, myself included, have been hearing such "heartfelt" promises for years (and in my case, decades) without any observable corresponding action, even when we have spelled it all out in baby steps for them.

Yes, for another day. I pressed on it because I think you have been so cautious to go in either direction. And I think you are hard on yourself about that.

I don’t think that you should feel like you are the one to be shouldering the responsibility for your marriage ending. Just a few weeks ago, you were willing to put your tired heart back to work and end IHS. Then she meets with the mechanic and even that might not have been the final straw had she had some coherent explanation.

I am empathetic she isn’t taking this well. I am even empathetic if you want to give it more time. But the way you are framing this is putting all of it on your shoulders. Can you get emergency IC appointment? I can hear you spiraling and it would be helpful to get centered.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:42 PM, Monday, April 1st]

Hiking probably said it better than I ever could. But...

I agree with you on "holding space," although as HO pointed out, the variety of posters, the different stages of grief anyone of us is in makes it unlikely that we'll reach consensus on what that means. But if I'm reading you correctly, there is sometimes a push to get betrayeds to move to the finish line (whatever that is) well before they could reasonably be ready to do it. I agree.

It's like we forget that, for most of us, the chaos and trauma takes some serious time to work through. It's just a fact. It is not a reflection of you or your strength.

I wanted to post this earlier actually because you describe yourself as a "champion waffler," and I don't see that at all. You are a human who has been devastated by betrayal. That brings countless feelings and emotions, some of them contradicting the others. One day you bathe in your pain and the next your pissed and then sometimes you're hopeless and then out of the blue there is a ray of sunshine that gives you hope. We don't call it the roller coaster for nothing. That's not waffling that's processing. It takes a long time.

We say 3-5 years to healing and you're what? 18 months in? Maybe a bit more, I don't remember. Just based on that math, you are in no way a lollygagger.

But you have done so much good work, like hiking listed. And that work needed to be done for you to even consider divorce. You had to go through the stages and redefine what you wanted and needed. You were not capable, and one might argue shouldn't have been capable, of discarding your wife and life at Dday. I see that as a testament to your love and commitment. Now that you know more clearly what you are dealing with, you may make a different choice if you believe it puts you and your family on the road to a happier life.

Those feelings, though, they will not be all neat and tidy, even this far along on your journey. Just keep doing what you're doing. Working on you, living with and expecting integrity and allowing yourself to feel whatever it is you feel. Keep your heart and mind open to reality and deal with it as it comes. You're going to be fine.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 9:59 PM, Monday, April 1st]

My mind found something: I actually listen to Sisoon.

I’m going to ask for what I want. Directly. I’m going to use our MC to validate that everything I’m asking for is reasonable and I’m going to give her the opportunity to refuse. But I’m going to ask. I’m going to have to think about it, but here are initial thoughts:

1) Poly on whether her timeline is complete and accurate and if there are any other affairs
2) Regular initiation of discussion about the affair
3) Regular discussion about therapy and what is being worked on
4) Full listing of all residual resentments and a plan to put them all to bed

I’m sure many of you hate that I’m even talking like this, but I’d like your thoughts on what to ask for.

#ilovelimbo
#wafflefucker
#iamwhoiam

I would want to go deeper at this point into things like the power dynamics in your marriage, her inner self stuff that she is going to have to CHANGE to be a safe, mature partner and mother for her children.

I found that when one set of my questions (finally) got answered, I discovered another layer of the onion needed to be peeled. (overworked analogy.) You already have indications that she has deep work to do, and here is where it gets rough: if she proves that cannot fundamentally CHANGE her personality, are you going to accept what the personality she has can give you, knowing what she is capable of doing?

I know how cheating changes the perception of what we need. I'm at the place where I'm seeing how long I've held on, expecting promised change in my SAfWH that may never be able to make while we stay stuck in IHS. He has major Mommy issues and sees me as the all-accepting Momma he never had. I had no idea until all this came out in Marriage Counseling after D-Day 1, 22 YEARS ago! Fast forward to today: I'm still being reacted to as the Mean Mommy.

Let me be the first (after this post) to say, you do you. It's totally OK.

Marriage is a big f***ing deal, so it's OK to take a while to decide what to do, to waffle, to be measured in your action. It's OK to be decisive too.

IH, you are very reflective, so trust yourself to rethink and know that your boundaries are solid. If you lay out this list of very reasonable must-haves and she doesn't agree or engage with them, you can withdraw the offer and proceed with D.

It's your journey, IH, and we really do support R or D. You know that your goal is to be out of infidelity and heal.

Dang, Superesse, guess I was second response.

But I also want to second Superesse's reminder that change has to be deep for it to really be lasting, meaningful change.

Just a note on number 4:

She may not realize she is holding the resentment. It took me a long time to admit that to myself. But she should be able to talk about what aspects she didn’t like.

And I think working through *most* of those on her own is more appropriate. I would ask for major ones, and I wouldn’t be surprised if at this stage she might claim none. I bet even if you hooked her up to the lie detector she would pass on the resentment question.

Also it’s not like you can force forgiveness anyway.remember avoidant people are not just avoidant with others, they are avoidant in themselves. I have some idea that you could list these yourself. There are probably a couple of them that are worth addressing with a therapist present. But I would only look at major ones, and those are probably not a mystery.

Don’t worry about the audience here. If they are not paying your mortgage or living your life, they have far less investment inthis than you do. We all think about the people we support here, and some may be afraid for you, but overall I don’t think you can count on them hating you or being angry with you. And if so, then they ain’t your people. Don’t worry about those who aren’t your people.

Best of luck. But, if you do end up staying don’t let it be due to guilt in the end. I know you still love her but for you to make up your mind to divorce you were at your limit. I don’t think you can expect her development to just totally catch up in the face of this, there is going to be more torture to get to the other side. I am not saying I have an opinion on what you should do, because I really don’t. This shit takes years for most people with no guarantees. I just don’t know how much more you can take and either option is going to hurt like a mother.

Here if you need me Ink.

Thanks, this is a different kind of hard right now, wasn’t ready for it.

You make the decision that you feel is best for YOU and your family, @InkHulk. Nobody else. If it helps, I support you as well.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 4:01 AM, Tuesday, April 2nd]