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UGH. I got sucked into an argument today by STBX. I was asking about custody and how we were going to do the summer until everything is processed. It all started fine, but he was definitely on edge when we started. I kept my cool even when he was getting angry. Somehow we got to talking about when we have other partners. The convo always goes to that with him. I told him it's concerning how hes always talking about having "someone" so soon etc (not saying he has one but "when we both have one"). He said he is ready for me to have someone to shift my focus to and away from him. That hes ready for someone else to deal with me. I told him that even though hes had that opportunity to have plenty of women take his attention from me and the kids, that the idea of someone new to me is far off. I then told him that until he figures himself out he won't be able to be faithful to anyone. He then essentially said I am the one to blame and the reason why he wasnt faithful is because I didnt give him enough attention. I dont know why but it hurt. It hurt that he 100% feels that it's all on me. That I caused him to cheat.He will say things like "yeah I know I did XYZ but". Like he takes the blame then shifts it. I knew he felt that way. Hes said it before. But this time for him to be so convinced that it was all my fault and he will be able to be faithful to anyone else....it hurt. I guess thats what I get for getting baited into an argument with him. It's really hard to want someone to want you back, even though you hate them. It's a weird dichotomy that im ready to be past. Having any type of civil discussion with someone who has proven to be a compulsive liar is difficult. They constant accuse you of lying bc they themselves lie all the time and never trust others to tell the truth.

[This message edited by Elle2 at 11:01 PM, Sunday, May 19th]

Please read up on narcissists and DARVO Elle, I'm not saying he is one, but he's using their strategies. He wants to hurt you, he wants to devalue you, and unfortunately you are letting him. He will not be faithful. Not ever, unless he meets someone more crazy and controlling than him, then maybe but he'll also be miserable. I can tell you are a kind caring person.

YOU DID NOTHING to deserve being cheated on.

Cheating is 100% on the cheater. You were in the same miserable relationship as him, but you didn't cheat.

Please for your own mental health learn to grey rock. When he starts any conversation that isn't kids/finance related, your standard answer should be "I'm sorry you feel that way" how do you want to do custody of the children.

Right now you're letting him know that you still care, and that is kibbles to him. Just don't. It's hard, I know, but you can do it, you are strong!

I know I did nothing to deserve it. I’m struggling with believing it though. I don’t know why. I think it’s bc I must really be a horrible person if my husband cheated on me as many times as he did. The idea of him texting and talking to these women is making my skin crawl today. I hate the ups and downs of all this so much.

The ups and downs are really hard.

You are NOT a horrible person.

He did it because he IS a horrible person.

Say that to yourself every time you have intrusive thoughts.

Keep saying it until you believe it.

He has made you believe this is true intentionally, but it isn't true Elle, it really isn't.

I think seeing others that thought were our friends, justify it, is what makes it hard at times. I guess I assumed they would be neutral. Support when needed but also check him when needed. Not saying "what did she expect to happen". They don’t know the whole story. They never will. The closest person that could have an opinion is my mom since she lived with us and saw how our day to day was. She’s assured me multiple times I DID do enough. That I was overwhelmed with everything. And that he expected me to just drop everything and coddle him instead of helping me. His sister has also said as much. Life with small kids and school and all the things we’ve recently been through. In top of affairs 2&3. It’s just hurtful that people genuinely think it was expected. I didn’t cheat. But I wonder if it was the other way around. Would that "friend" of ours be as supportive of me? I doubt it. And I know his wife would not be as well. Which I would expect my friends to check me when I’m the one that fucked up.

It sounds like he is more your husbands friend.

People who say a BS did something to deserved it
1. Have not experienced infidelity or
2. Are cheaters.

Every single person on this site will tell you that you did NOT deserve it.

Your husband made vows when he married you.

If he was truly unhappy he could have divorced you.

I can almost bet if you were willing to tolerate his behaviour he would still be there, eating cake and making you feel like garbage.

He made vows that he broke. 100% on him, no matter what.

But you know you were doing everything you could possibly do in the hours of the day you had. He was not willing to make you feel safe after the last affairs. He wanted you to coddle him.

But he wants you to feel like it's your fault. It's NEVER the bs's fault that the WS cheats. There are other options besides stabbing your partner in the heart.

This is all true. I guess this is part of recovering from being gaslit and manipulated for years will do. You feel like you finally have a handle on everything but then you have these little seeds of doubt that have been planted that start to grow. it doesnt take much. I know he was intimidated by me as a partner. I was the smarter one. I was the more handy one. I was the one that solved all problems (except financial). I wasnt scared to get dirty etc. Ive seen videos about masculine energy and feminine energy. I feel like I never got to be in my feminine energy much with him. I was always doing all the things. I had become so low maintenance over the years that I wouldnt even wear make up when we would get date nights sometimes. Often I was just changing quickly to run out. He would have all the time in the world to get ready, shower etc. If I wanted to get ready I would have to start at like noon when the baby was napping. Not because it took me that long but because thats the on only time I would get.

Elle, it's good that you're starting to recognize this, but it can take a long long time to recover from it. Did you have that therapy appointment?

Have you looked at any books at recovering from narcissistic abuse?
I'm not saying he is or isn't one, but a lot of what you say is what they do, they devalue you again and again.

To control you, to make you feel smaller so they can feel larger.

You are not small, you are not weak, you are not less of a woman.

You did ALL the things, and you are a badass and need to change the self talk.

Every time your little voice says those bad things to you, remember he planted that there, find YOUR inner voice, the one that tells you you're awesome, and enough, and you can do all the damn things.

Dr. Ramani has some great YouTube videos for recovering from narcissistic personality disorder abuse. Her videos really helped me. Other YouTube videos that helped were from The Enlightened Target and Queen Being.

Therapy went well. I posted in my original thread about it. The therpaist was great and she really helped me see whats been going on. I felt safe talking about it all for the first time so I broke down A LOT but im happy I did it.
I'll look up stuff about the narc recovery. Ive seen a lot on FB and IG reels and sometimes I feel like they are repeating the same stuff but many times they are random people (not professionals) so they see to repeat the same stuff for views.

I wouldn't use facebook reels or IG, go look up the people that leafields said, they are very good doctors. I am so glad that therapy went well for you, and you felt safe!

*** EDITED as I just saw your post that he moved out on his own. Good - but please consider my comments about well meaning legal advice on this and other sites anyway.

I don't have long to reply. but wanted to comment I'm happy for you to be honest - happy you have decided to remove yourself from the toxicity that has been pervading your life for so long. You will be happy too I think, and I also think sooner than you likely expect you will at this moment in time.

The following is my personal opinion. While I am a lawyer this is not my legal advice. I also would suggest that you look fully into any advice you receive on here addressing legal matters with a lawyer licensed in your jurisdiction. I see well meaning people say things on this site all the time which are likely legally incorrect. When questions like yours are posed, please verify the advice you receive is indeed correct in your jurisdiction.

As for your living situation - do NOT do this:

If your mom owns or rents the residence, then you ask him to leave. If he refuses and he’s not on the deed or title or lease, call the sheriff or police and have him removed.

At least not until you know what your state law is. In some states even without a formal rental agreement, in certain circumstances (to which it sounds like yours applies) you need to formally remove even a "guest" resident via legal means. If you have the sheriff come and remove him without legal grounds to do so, you (and your mom) could find yourself at the wrong end of a lawsuit later on. Especially as it sounds like you both have been helping with finances in exchange for living at your mom's place. While agreements regarding real property generally must be in writing, most states allow equitable considerations, even in lieu of a written housing agreement, where he could end up being a month to month tenant or something to that effect and in order to remove him you would have to go through the legal eviction process.

In these circumstances you are best served in coming up with an agreement for him to move out. Only if he refuses would I involve the authorities/legal system. When the time comes IF you all do not reach an agreement regarding him moving out, your mother, as the homeowner, will likely have to terminate his tenancy in writing. Basically, you need to find out what the law is when you get to the time to address where he will be living.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 6:41 PM, Thursday, May 23rd]

Yes, I knew that having him removed would not be an option. And at the time he had also informed me that he looked into his rights and he didnt have to leave since he was paying rent. It was very stressful at the time to know he wouldnt leave just to prove a point and was intentionally making things worse to make me suffer. Im not sure where he is. He won't tell me or anyone. I dont care. I have been clear that until I know where he is living and who it is with, he will not be taking our children to his residence.

He sounds like he wants to be a good time party boy. No kids. No responsibility.

And that will work until he gets to the point that not seeing his kids makes him look bad. Because in his mind everyone’s opinion matters but yours.

So he may then decide to fight for "visitation" with his kids at his unknown place of residence. I agree he should not have the children if you don’t know where he is living. Period.

But just remember he has a warped demented mind and he will only do things in his own best interest. Add bonus points if those same things negatively impact you or hurt you.

Glad he’s out of your living space.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:24 PM, Thursday, May 23rd]

I don’t have time for a long post but I would recommend you get the book "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie. It might give you some insight as to this pattern between you and your STBXH. A surprisingly large number of BS’s have/had codependent marriages with wayward spouses. You sound like this may be an aspect for yours as well. Typically the BS does everything in the marriage for the WS and tries to manage them in that process and are upended by the A. It can be a great catalyst for change for the BS breaking out of these patterns. Big hug. Your stbxh sounds like a total douche.

I guess maybe I am codependent. it's weird bc im fairly independent. But I really do seem to have an issue with cutting him off.
Today I had two full blown panic attacks. Ive been diagnosed with them since I. was 18 but ive managed to keep them mostly under control for the least few years.. I havent had a full one in months, maybe over a year honestly. I was thinking about everything. And then I started thinking about when I file for divorce (im currently in the process of getting all the info together etc). I guess I never put any thought into actually filing the paperwork. How it's something I have to do. I knew what I would be doing but I never gave it thought. And when thought about it today it just completely overwhelmed me. I know it's what needs to happen. I never thought I would b dealing with this. My life has been full of situations that I never thought would be. Losing a child. A husband with multiple affairs. Now, a divorce. I know life isn't fair. I know people have had it waaaaay worse. I know that shit happens. But The last 6 years have been a very harsh reminder of how life just happens and we have no control over most of it.

Sending (((hugs))) Elle2. You have been through A LOT. It’s a lot. And none of it is fair. And it doesn’t matter if others had it worse— it sucks royally for you and hurts.

A little break down now and again is okay. It’s normal. It’s healthy. I’ve not had a panic attack, but it must be terrifying.
Because you get back up, wipe off your tears, start to breathe normally, and then get on with it. You are stronger than him. And stronger than the panic attacks.

Hang in there. You are so strong. You can do this.

(Also, I always had "hangovers" after talking to my WS. So nice when that goes away. )

I guess maybe I am codependent. it's weird bc im fairly independent. But I really do seem to have an issue with cutting him off.

You are more than likely trauma bonded. Symptomology is similar to codependency, but there are some differences. If you watch YouTube videos, look up Dr. Ramani. She has a really good video on trauma bonding and explaining the brain chemistry it causes (explained in every day terms) that is really interesting. She describes how difficult it can be to withdraw from the chemical independence we have on our abuser. (My XWH is a covert narc, and I was trauma bonded.) it can really mess with you physically and emotionally.

I'll look it up for sure. Losing a child together im sure creates more issues also. But you hear people joke about "trauma bonds" but Ive never really put much thought into them. Ill look them up tonight.

Also, I always had "hangovers" after talking to my WS.

Ugh these were always the worst it's why I'm mostly NC with my xWS. He stirs up very uncomfortable feelings and PTSD.

(((Elle2))) hang in there you will get through this. Just take baby steps and take breaks from it all and practice lots of self care.

I second the whole trauma bond. I too was trauma bonded to my xWS it's almost impossible not to be when you are with someone that was toxic.