SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Why cant you see the phone data? Dont you have access to the cell phone bill? Or was it a work phone?

She's on phone plan with her brother and has always just paid him monthly. Yes she is pretty secretive with her phone. The only time I would have access to it is while she is sleeping but I don't have a code to get into her phone. I have a plan to get her code but is going to take some sneaking around and orchestration to accomplish. Working on it.

These are not little red flags. They are HUGE!!! The only way you can know is subterfuge. A VAR in her car. Possible PI. Good luck.

But how would you know what another man's semen smells like

We had not had sex for multiple weeks and I visited our master bathroom and smelled a strong semen smell coming from the toilet. It's just a smell that I think is pretty un-deniable. I do admit it's not really anything without confirmation. Someone here suggested the Checkmate product and I have that arriving soon.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the perspective and support here. I promise to let Biggie's advise of focusing on finding the truth rather than infidelity be in the back of my head. It really is, as mentioned, solid advice.

For the next three months I'm equipped with the following tools and will use them to reveal whatever that truth is:

1. tracking vehicle movement
2. VAR in her car
3. I have a camera I'm going to use try and capture her phone pin. Once I have that, phone checks nightly while she's sleeping.
4. Checkmate (10 pack) in case I find any evidence on her clothing.

Also I am trying to focus on myself and remain physically and mentally healthy. I've replaced some of my daily coffee consumption with green drinks. Healthier but the reduction in caffeine is helping me sleep and stay sharp.

Again, Thank you all so much.

I don’t often see real young bs on here although they occasionally are. Most of us are seasoned well. In my case we were in our 20s. He had a great job, wonderful income, I was a sahm to several very young children. He never showed any change when he was home. I would never suspected a thing but I was told by someone who thought I should know. I kept my mouth shut, swept things way under the rug and finally confronted when I was able to provide for myself if necessary. That gave me a safety net if needed. He admitted. We were long past and have moved on. I had no gut feelings because he evidently was able to compartmentalize like crazy.

I think Bigger always has good advice but there are certainly red flags here. Do what he suggests. Look for what the reasons are rather than her cheating. I do think changes in behaviors always need to be paid attention to.

I’m a former cop. As a trained investigator I was taught about the limitations of the gut. The gut is what makes an officer stop young African-American males if their vehicle looks expensive or at the wrong side of the tracks. The reliance of the "gut" is what helped Ted Bundy for years – everybody trusted a nice young man. Yet the gut is also what makes you super-aware entering that dark warehouse with the open door in the middle of the night... The gut has a place, only don’t really use it to build anything definite on.

I would say that these examples are quite a bit different than the kind of "gut feeling" that BSs sometimes experience. In our case we're talking about an individual that we know better than anyone. We know them at a level that is beyond our perception. Their look, their smell, their mannerisms, their vocal queues. I believe that the "gut feeling" is often because our lizard brain perceives changes to those things and recognizes a threat.

You're correct in that the focus needs to be "truth" and not "infidelity." But things that generate behavior changes that you don't share with your spouse are rarely good for the marriage.

I never understand couples who don’t have open devices even without infidelity. This should be a normal practice.

Honest question, have you ever felt like this before? I don’t think you have.

I am going to counter a lot of users here and suggested something completely different. For context, I’ve been married over 2 decades, never suspected my WW of anything ever. Once her A started i immediately felt something was way off. Did a lot of things you are doing or planning on doing.

One day, I was digging through dirty laundry looking for evidence. It hit me then. In the 20 years of marriage I never had to do something like this, and if I’m doing it now then I already know what the truth is. I’m betting you do as well

Unless you’re in a at fault state where infidelity can actually help you get a better outcome in D, honestly I think you are wasting your time.

Rule number one: Don’t confront unless you’re ready to walk away. If you have evidence that’s great but if she’s cheating she will lie lie and lie some more to mess with your head. Rarely do they actually fess up when confronted.

What I think you should do is flat out tell her she needs to unlock her phone and hand it to you. However you want to phrase it, but that needs to be result.

If she protests, gives you a speech about privacy, call's you controlling or abusive or anything like that, and most importantly doesn’t make any attempt to let you see it, then you have everything you need.

But I can’t stress enough, you have to be ready to leave.

People who have nothing to hide hide nothing.

One of the most challenging (and insightful) aspects for me in healing after infidelity (now divorced) was just how accurate my gut feelings were. I literally learned how much I could trust myself by reconciling how much I hadn’t - double edged sword.

We’re looking at two particular data sets - which is really nothing more than trying to appease the brain. The brain needs to understand, connect the dots, create a story. The gut just says, something is not right. It’s why the brain can be satisfied - for a period of time - while the gut just quietly continues to protest.

My suspicion is that there are things that preceded the pregnancy math. Minutia things, not nearly as challenging as basic biology math for the brain, but still duly noted in the gut. Once the evidence became too overwhelming to my brain, I was shocked to learn how many of those little pieces my gut had already assimilated. No wonder it would never back down! (Might want to start mining for any of those other "ridiculous" and "insufficient" suspicions from the past.)

I do believe there is a value in prioritizing finding the truth over any particular story your brain has concocted. There’s only a hairline difference between proving infidelity or reinforcing loyalty. Do you have a preferred outcome to your story? It’s likely you do…and that will shape how your brain will argue for each interpretation. I can tell you from a personal perspective - internal battles (brain vs gut) are the worst.

Regardless of the actual outcome, you will have to reevaluate/get clearer on what you actually *most* value for your life - particularly when it comes to deciding between two shitty choices. As it stands now, you are about to become a father - potentially to a child that does not share your dna. Figuring out how you feel about fatherhood and dna seems to be one of the most important questions you are now facing. If this child is not yours, could you still raise it as if it were? If you could, would you then still want to know?

Your situation is very complicated specifically because of the pregnancy. It makes more sense to me to begin with your feelings about those questions above…rather than using the pregnancy as some kind of truth serum. ❤️

(Btw, exploring your feelings regarding undesirable outcomes can actually help to resolve some of that internal conflict. It’s less about finding her truth and more about finding your own - which is actually what you are trying to avoid.
PS - It’s worth the pain.)

soaringpenguin

The post by HellIsNotHalfFull worth reading and executing:

HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534)posted at 8:03 AM on Sunday, June 16th, 2024

Seeing contents of her cell-phone: Is there a risk? Of course.

If nothing is on the phone - that does not verify wife has not wandered.
And she can slam you for "Invading her privacy."

comment/query: Why has she not established her own cell-phone account? Or, joined with you on a "family" plan?

Wife could also claim she has client/customer info on same and 'sharing' would be counter to the rule of confidentiality.

Or - she gives you the logon and - you find nothing. Has she wiped the phone in anticipation of you requesting?

Or - she gives you the logon and - you find what you suspect. Or some info that could be interpreted to be improper.

Question for you: What does your "brain" hope for versus that "gut" feeling something is wrong?

Beware of your bias of what you WANT to find (nothing) as opposed to you DO find something?

Possible reason for not agreeing to share? Maybe she is talking to someone regarding getting an abortion and wants to keep the conversation from you until she has made up her mind? What is/are you and her opinion/desire in terms of pregnancy to term or an alternative. What if she has a miscarriage?

Sad for you to be in the situation you now face - hoping the worst you find is miscommunication.

But - steel yourself for bad news should it come to you.

One of the most challenging (and insightful) aspects for me in healing after infidelity (now divorced) was just how accurate my gut feelings were.

I could say the exact same thing. I went into an OCD investigative mode before d-day and with the 20/20 of the affair I attribute it to sensing something was off.

A problem is that while we look back and say, "look, I was right!", we almost never do the same thing and see how our gut was wrong. Classic confirmation bias at play.

I will say that the sheer size of my gut reaction is also something I should consider in this. This wasn’t a nagging feeling in the far corners of my mind. This was a full on fire alarm that interrupted my life for a few months.

Anyway, it’s a tough question. Best luck in navigating this, OP.

I never understand couples who don’t have open devices even without infidelity.

I can think of a lot of reasons not to have an open device, for example, people have work stuff with confidentiality/privacy issues attached to their phone. That said, I agree that when people don't feel comfortable just asking their spouse for their passcode casually, that is wild to me.

Thread carefully here. Asking a pregnant woman for a DNA test is often relationship ending regardless of the results.

Sorry you are going thru this. My 2 cents:

You don't seem like a suspicious person in general but the small details here and there do add up. I would be suspicious as well. Are there any red flags and warning signs that you never fully processed from the past? Now may be a good time to dig into memory. The subconscious mind remembers things.

Either way, you need more evidence. This won't go away on its own. If there is anything, it'll likely be in her phone.

On red flag is that lawers are seasoned liars and often are able to convince themselves that their clients are innocent. So your W assuring you that you have nothing to fear is not a good sign.

That your W switched jobs recently is another red flag there always seems to be someone narcissistic ahole at law offices who works fast at seducing new hires.

Offhand suspect someone older perhaps a partner.

How many people work at the office?

Do you have a prime suspect, someone she casually mentioned in conversation?

You have time and since affairs are addictive she might put it on hold for a time, but like an alcoholic they usually go back.

If your WW gives birth to some OM kid be sure you don't sign the paternity form, and prepare to sue for child support.

A problem is that while we look back and say, "look, I was right!", we almost never do the same thing and see how our gut was wrong. Classic confirmation bias at play.

I disagree with this to a degree (as I understand what you are saying.) I’m not pointing out the distinction to be contrary but rather to be clear. 😊

I can be wrong about my interpretation - the story I assign - without my gut having misled me. In my mind, those - the gut and the brain - are two different things.

On red flag is that lawers are seasoned liars and often are able to convince themselves that their clients are innocent. So your W assuring you that you have nothing to fear is not a good sign.

Feels like a bit of an unnecessary generalization, no? Should we assume that all lawyers are cheaters based on their profession alone?

As per my examples I don’t deny the gut. I do however avoid and warn against making assumptions based on the gut. In my dark warehouse example: my gut would be what made me shoot the owner of the place who dropped by to get some papers, yet not listening to my gut might be what made me careless so I got whacked over the head by some burglar.

See the logic sometimes offered on this site in unclear situations?
Your wife is an attorney – all attorneys lie – all attorneys are experts at lying. Therefore, whatever your wife – the attorney – says is a lie.

I wonder how that goes:
"Honey – I am NOT having an affair" is a lie because she is an attorney, and all attorneys lie...
"Honey – I took part in a dare and have now had sex with all the partners at the firm alphabetically. I only have old Xanadu left..." is a lie, because after all – she is an attorney...

See how you can’t win that situation?

You can find all sorts of 100% guaranteed "Is your spouse cheating" articles in such esteemed tomes of higher learning like "Elle" and "Cosmopolitan" that will tell you that if she changes perfume it’s a clear sign of cheating, if there is intimacy – or if there is no intimacy – it’s a clear sign of cheating, if she looks at her phone – cheating, if she ignores it... guess what... cheating...
It's imperative IMHO to drop that attitude and look for good-old evidence rather than try to evaluate smoke-signals and chicken innards. Only... as I have said before – look for the truth rather than a foregone conclusion.

I find the phone-time and the semen smell very thin...
Being pregnant is big. She can have wanted time alone, talk to her bestie, mom, sister... The smell can be anything from having asparagus-soup at lunch to hormonal changes to a yeast infection.

I want to give you a couple of very successful investigative hints:
For one – IF this pregnancy is with another man, and he’s so great and fantastic and all that... she should be all excited about starting a new life with the White Knight. That she isn’t is IMHO possibly down to one of two factors: 1) she isn’t having an affair and/or 2) OM is married and hasn’t returned the commitment to start afresh with her.

IF she’s cheating, they need to communicate. If this is someone at work – they think it’s all a secret and nobody knows. They will go out of their way to keep it that way. Therefore – they won’t be chatting at work, keep a certain social distance and not show affection there. Double so if this is a client. Experience shows that people having affairs generally think NOBODY knows and that they are able to keep it hidden from everyone – including colleagues at the workplace.

They will communicate away from work where they think they are safe. Two places come to mind:
The Classic: In the commute to and from work. This is where a VAR is most likely to catch them. If you hide a VAR somewhere (taping under the passenger seat or in the cargo-nets behind the seat are classic places) you could catch what’s going on during the commute. The car is also where they might catch time together at lunch or catch up on if the other is on the way to their rendevouz or whatever.
Secondary places are sites she feels confident to be alone in. Home office, bathroom etc. These are less likely to give any result.

Take time to learn how to operate your VAR. If possible, pay at a store with cash rather than order online. Black tape on any lights, make sure you can turn on and off without any bleep or noise. Be prepared with a story if found – ranging from the truth (sometimes a powerful tool...) to complete denial.

Another good investigative tip is to examine the finances. Any unusual purchases? Purchases for stuff you can’t find or corroborate (like lingerie). Charges at places outside your normal area? Lunch more than 500 yards from her office? ATM withdrawals off your normal/expected area.

Another good tip is to corroborate claimed actions. Like if she says she’s going to the mall and is away for 4 hours you should be seeing purchases, charges for lunch/coffee, parking charges etc.
Going to the gym? Does she return with sweaty gym-clothes? Is the same gear in the bag day after day, as in not being used at the gym? Shower at the gym or at home?
Milage of her vehicle – Does the milage fit within the expected distance to the mall/gym and back?

There are so many ways to get location information, ranging from "forgetting" your smartphone or an iPad in her car, hiding a gps tracker, activating location tracker on her devices...

Then there is the good old groundwork... Your wife says she’s going to her friend Sue after work... drive by. See her car? She says she’s working late. Drive by the office – her car outside? Call her direct line (and not the mobile).

Finally – Infidelity seldom factors in divorce these days. However... it does in a few states. Do some quick search about your state. If it does factor and your initial investigation warrants it, get a PI to get the legally-qualified evidence to support your cause IF this goes to the Big D. Not saying it will, but this is something that is better to have than have missing.

Finally finally.... You CAN lie. If there is something amiss you can say something like "What were you doing at Frenchies restaurant at lunch?" and if asked how you knew about it "a colleague of mine saw you and told me".

I’m sorry but the bathroom "smelled like semen" is ridiculous to me. I get a room smelling like sex, but semen itself has no particular smell. Her pee could smell off based on what she ate that day or hormone changes in her body.

As for her needing to clear her head after finding out she was pregnant, if you weren’t planning on kids and were taking precautions to avoid pregnancy, then it’s only natural she would be shocked and have mixed feelings to work through initially.

If you’re not sure if the kid is yours, ask for a paternity test, which can be done a long with other genetic testing after 12 weeks of pregnancy.

If your wife is innocent, she’ll be upset and the relationship will take a hit, but it will be no worse than the damage that’s happening right now because you’ve already convinced yourself that she’s cheating.

And if she is cheating and the kid isn’t yours, you’ll have the opportunity to get out before assuming parental responsibility for the child.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:22 PM, Thursday, June 20th]

Soaringpenguin wrote: "...Earlier this month she took a pregnancy test and is pregnant. We had sex only once during any sort of window and a certain method was used..."

My English is not very good. In Spain "certain" is an ambivalent term; -true/sure/undoubted, or -indeterminate/anyone.

Can you tell us exactly what contraceptive method is that?

[This message edited by Littlepuppet at 6:07 PM, Thursday, June 20th]

Can you tell us exactly what contraceptive method is that?

@littlepuppet - apologies for the vagueness. I was just trying to not be too graphic. By a 'certain method' I meant 'the pull out method'