SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Often in websites dedicated to betrayal I read that any contact with the Affair Partner should STOP, no contact, no communication.

Well, this is the theory.

I am the betrayed spouse. My husband had a long affair with a coworker. They used to go on business trips together and I had no idea he was going with her. He made me believe he was alone or he mentioned other colleagues whom he has certainly been on other business trips with, but he never mentioned her... She was obsessively making jokes on his social pages and interacting even with me. At the time we didn't see each other much because he was on business trips all the time. He came home every two weeks, though, despite a very long trip we had to pay for ourselves.

Since the affair he accepted twice a new role within the company away from home, abroad, and I went with him on his second move. When he accepted the first one he asked me to go initially but then when he moved first and then the idea was he would come back to pick me up and go together, he wrote to me he didn't feel he wanted to come home to get me. That came as a big surprise after a year of couple therapy. Long story short, we worked it out in a year of geographical distance in which we visited each other and kept in contact.

The big problem is, even if we have moved continent and my husband does not see that woman anymore, they work for the same organisation and every now and then I know they have some contact, not professional contact, that is no longer a possibility for that, they have now different and incompatible assignments, but he has her number and she has got his and I know she writes to him (I snooped my husband's phone) and says things like "Despite all, I miss you" She even wrote to him complaining that, even if they are not together, she was expecting a Valentine message. It is clear that they broke up but a thread that joins them has remained, I can IMAGINE my husband breaking up but saying "We will always be friends, you have been important and I will not forget that" otherwise I cannot imagine why she would speak to him like that. She wanted the fairy tale. She has been discarded and yet she is chasing him after so many years, after she had a homosexual relationship, after she has had cancer and he did not support her as a friend would.

My husband's replies to her are always vague and he tries to change topic, but she keeps coming back to him. Only on one occasion I have seen my husband initiate a conversation showing her something that is work related. Last summer we went back to the city where the headquarters of the company are and she wrote to him asking him to go out for a coffee. My husband replied he already had a coffee and was busy, BUT he said to her he would leave on his desk a mini cake for her if she was hungry (for the following days when he was already out of the office).

My therapist said I should accept that certain people will always be part of someone's life if they have been important and if between them there is a friendship that has been created. However she said there is so much evidence my husband has chosen me and loves me that there is no reason to be worried. I can accept that or if I ask my husband to delete her from his life he will do it and resentment will start to grow and he will feel like in prison. My choice.

I know this is the case. I just WISHED SO BADLY that my husband chose to cut off any contact with her, that saw how hurtful for

me it is and how useless it is for them to cling on to memories. I am already worrying because in a year and a half we will go back to our city and they will have again POSSIBILITIES to meet, even if they are on different floors and they are not working together anymore. I know for example that my husband will be asked to go on a business trip to a city in Europe where I know that she travels often. It is in a year and a half but how will I ask my husband not to go on business trips there because I DON'T TRUST HIM FULLY and because I KNOW FOR SURE she does travel to that place, too? He caused all this with his choices!! If I become obsessive and prescriptive my husband will feel in a cage and will want to run away. So how do I deal with all that? It's been 4 and a half years from D day.

Thank you to whoever will suggest something that can put my mind to peace.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 2:26 PM, Friday, February 23rd]

I have news for you that you may take as a 2x4 to the head, but it bears saying…your husband’s affair with her has never concluded. As long as there is contact, the affair is still going. It doesn’t matter that she has his number. It should matter that he does the simple act of deleting and blocking her number including any and all contact possible through social media, including professional networks like LinkedIn.

That is what your husband should do, but it is more important that we focus on what you are gonna do. You can lay down the hammer that your WH must establish no contact with this woman or else…but you gotta be prepared with the "or else" and what you will do. You can’t say "cut her off or I’m divorcing you" and then proceed to not take action. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Your WH is no different than any other wayward (and just so we are clear, I mean to inclusive of myself here as a former WH/BH) in that consequences are the only thing that can snap them out of it.

Hey Molly! I’m concerned your therapist is stating that there could be limited contact if they have a friendship???? I would be very skeptical of anyone suggesting this. There should be zero contact with AP. Don’t accept anything else. Speaking out of concern for your situation… no contact. No exceptions.

Hello Molly65,

I'm sorry you are in this position but I'm glad you found this site. I agree with everything Bor9455 has written. I can only add this. You need to find a new therapist ASAP. His or her comment is the biggest piece of crap I have heard in a long time. Please find a therapist who has experience with infidelity and who is qualified to help you. Best of luck going forward.

I agree with the others, OP. He is hoping space open for her and she knows that, and he’s showing her he is leaving space for her. She thinks it’s only a matter of time and patience before they reconcile and he is reinforcing that.

Hi Molly, I’m so sorry your WH is putting you through this. No contact means NO contact. Ever. Period.
It’s disappointing that your therapist actually suggested that they could still remain friends? WTH? Sorry but NO.
My fWH had an EA w a woman he had known since childhood. We’re talking a four-decades long friendship. He grew up with her, their dads worked together, they went to school together, their families hung out. Hell I thought she was MY friend too - I thought she was a friend to my marriage. That was not the case. When I discovered the EA (I found their FB messages) I demanded NC. I DEMANDED that she be cut out permanently from our lives, I told our whole family about the EA, I told everyone that she was never welcome around ever again. Two months after dday, my H’s brother died suddenly. It was shocking and devastating. And when we held his funeral, I sent her a message reminding her that she was not welcome at the funeral. That this was a consequence of their actions. We do not see her - the family does not invite her to anything, that’s the cost of being a cheater. His betrayal cut me deep, to the core. But that it was a FRIEND of ours, a supposed friend to our family? That one hurt a lot. So your therapist is full of it - my H had a 40+ year friendship with this woman and he was absolutely willing to cut her out of our lives - ALL of our lives - to save our marriage. What is your husband doing to be a safe partner? What are YOU willing to do if he continues to put you second. I for one was NOT willing to be the 3rd person in my marriage. You should never settle - if he’s unwilling to walk away permanently from her, then you know he’s not willing to fight for your relationship, your marriage. Good luck to you.

Bad takes from therapists are SOOOOO harmful, they just take on so much weight. In this case, this therapist is asking you to remain in your trauma response and learn to live with it to spare your betraying husbands desire to keep his options open with the woman he betrayed you with. It’s really bad. Even if you don’t want to take internet strangers’ word for it, read any reputable book in recovering from infidelity and this is STEP ONE! NO CONTACT! Please don’t accept less. You are not broken somehow for not being able to feel comfortable with this, NO ONE could! If your therapist doesn’t know that, you should get a new one with infidelity experience. No one who knows anything about it would give that advice.

If instead of having an A, what if the AP had beat you almost to the point of death or burned down your house knowing you were locked inside? Would the therapist think that it's ok to stay in contact with the AP?

No contact, no communication, or the A is really on-going. The WS still gets dopamine hits. I suggest your WH send a strong NC letter and if she persists, contact HR.

My therapist said I should accept that certain people will always be part of someone's life if they have been important and if between them there is a friendship that has been created. However she said there is so much evidence my husband has chosen me and loves me that there is no reason to be worried. I can accept that or if I ask my husband to delete her from his life he will do it and resentment will start to grow and he will feel like in prison. My choice.

As a fWS, I disagree strongly with your therapist. You have been asked to do some very heavy emotional lifting in reconciliation with your husband. It is not too much to ask that in return, he end all contact with the AP. He had every opportunity to keep her as an important person in his life, but instead, he chose to cheat. That was the moment of irretrievable divergence between staying friendly with her and staying married to you.

Gently, the affair has never really ended.

he didn't feel he wanted to come home to get me

^^How can you be sure she doesn't go visit him occasionally? WHY would he not want to be with his wife. Gently, a red flag IMO.

Your husband needs to cut her out of his life completely. Forever. No texts, emails, phone calls, social media, nothing. Is there a possibility of a burner phone and they are playing a game trying to divert your attention thinking your husband is just brushing her off? Cheaters do crazy things, manipulation is one of them.

My husband had an A with a co-worker who lived 3,000 miles across the country. When I found out about the A, his travel basically came to a screeching halt. Dumped the AP on D-Day. He looked for another job. He actually found a better job where he had minimum travel. Many times I traveled with him.

I suggest:

Fire your therapist today.

Insist on no contact with the AP.

Move to the country he is currently working in. Based on your post, I would not trust him especially because he changed plans to bring you there.

If he really wants to save the marriage, he will start looking for another job before they are in the same building together.

So sorry you are here and maybe our support may seem a bit harsh, but your husband seems to be having his cake and eating it too.

A huge hug.....

Molly,

I feel for you. I really do. You suffered the trauma of betrayal and now have a therapist who is co-signing your continued abuse.

That is what it is, abuse. This woman doesn't give one good damn about you. In fact, she'd happily destroy your marriage to get what she wants. And you're supposed to keep letting the fox into the hen house? Absolutely not.

I imagine if your husband left you for the AP she would not tolerate one second of your intrusion into their lives. Not one second. Why are you?

As for your husband, well Imma call absolute bullshit. He should have blocked her and sent a clear message that she was no longer welcome in his life. After all, his focus should be on you and your marriage. He hasn't done that. He does not care that it hurts you. Really think about that - he does not care that it hurts you.

Easier said than done but you really need to stop thinking about how to soft shoe this to keep your husband. Is she soft shoeing? No. She's reaching out and getting attention and making her wants and desires clear. Why, as his wife, are you not allowed to do the same.

She needs to be as gone as she can be from his life. He knows that, my friend. He knows he continues to get away with having you and another waiting in the wings, pining for him. He enjoys it. But he absolutely knows it is wrong and unfair to you.

The issue is that you need to see how very wrong and unfair it is to you.

My advice: Girl, get angry. You're being disrespected. All contact ends now. He sends a no contact letter or email or whatever and block her on everything. Travel? Only if you are going. He has not earned trust, he does not get trust.

Please, please see an IC if you aren't already and figure out why you have forgotten your worth. The AP hasn't. She thinks she's god gift and insert herself into your marriage at will. Find you worth. Advocate for it. Take no prisoners.

He won't value you until you value yourself.

No contact. Period. Block her number, block her on social media, no warning and no explanation. If they have nothing going professionally, then maybe he can keep his job. If they are going to need to work together professional he should change jobs. They can no longer interact at all.

This is the least he can do. It’s easy and will protect you. If he is not willing to protect you there is no reason to continue reconciliation.

EDIT;ADD: I just saw in your bio that the OW left her husband to be with yours. If that's the case, then you would be wrong to think that she will just lose interest and go away on her own accord. Also, it's very likely that your husband has made promises to her that she expects he will deliver on eventually, such as divorcing you after the kids are grown.

My husband's replies to her are always vague and he tries to change topic, but she keeps coming back to him. Only on one occasion I have seen my husband initiate a conversation showing her something that is work related. Last summer we went back to the city where the headquarters of the company are and she wrote to him asking him to go out for a coffee. My husband replied he already had a coffee and was busy, BUT he said to her he would leave on his desk a mini cake for her if she was hungry (for the following days when he was already out of the office).

The fact that his responses are vague and he tries to change the topic doesn't really mean anything. He knows you know about the affair, so even if he doesn't know you're reading his messages, he's probably learned to be careful to avoid saying anything that you could say is direct evidence of an ongoing affair.

But quite frankly, him not shutting her down and even leaving her cake, which is definitely an affectionate gesture, should absolutely count as ongoing communication and cheating.

My therapist said I should accept that certain people will always be part of someone's life if they have been important and if between them there is a friendship that has been created. However she said there is so much evidence my husband has chosen me and loves me that there is no reason to be worried.

Fire your therapist. Seriously. This advice is so bogus and so outrageous that I'm willing to bet that your therapist is probably a cheater.

He "chose you" when he exchanged vows with you, but that didn't stop him for cheating on you. More importantly, you shouldn't have to play pick-me dance for your own husband as if he's the prize. The onus is on him to prove that he is worthy of a second chance.

I can accept that or if I ask my husband to delete her from his life he will do it and resentment will start to grow and he will feel like in prison. My choice.

No, actually... the choice is your husband's.

He can either cut OW out of his life permanently and remain your husband... or he can continue his friendship or any manner of relationship that he desires with her as a divorced man.

If doing what is necessary to maintain his marriage makes he feel sullen and resentful, then do him a favor and divorce his cheating ass.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:05 PM, Tuesday, February 20th]

He is still having an affair. Please, hear me. As someone who did something similar, WW kept contact for a lot of the same reasons your WH is claiming. It’s nothing but a lie. It’s still an affair. I don’t mean to be harsh, You are being gaslighted so bad. Again, I have been there, I know what it’s like to not even understand which way is up.

I recommend you go talk to a lawyer, get your exit plan in place. Truthfully I would say just go, leave. Pack your stuff, cancel joint accounts/Credit cards, and just go. I wish I had done that long ago.

He gets his head out of his ass, maybe consider R. Right now, you are not. You are in false R.

No contact means no contact. It’s the absolute bare minimum, and he can’t even give you that.

Also, your therapist is a crackpot. Probably telling you something about how is affair is your fault because of unmet needs or some other crap. At the very least they have 0 experience with infidelity and are blaming you for being destroyed that he is still in contact with AP.

He will keep doing it, and given enough time it’s going to go back full blown. If he wanted to go NC he would. He doesn’t. He is still a massive cake eater.

I am new so I don't know how you reply to messages. Here there are some replies, please keep reading.

^^How can you be sure she doesn't go visit him occasionally? WHY would he not want to be with his wife. Gently, a red flag IMO. WRITTEN BY ANNB

Thank you for your response. I am SURE he doesn't visit her occasionally nor does she because we are on different continents (MYSELF AND MY HUSBAND TOGETHER) and because the idiot woman puts publicly where she is on social media for her fans (she feels a celebrity even if she has only less than 1000 followers ). She has blocked me on social media but I have opened another account nobody knows about so I can check on her anyway.

When they broke up it was Covid time, then he went to another continent for a year during Covid and that particular country had strict rules and only spouses could visit and then we moved TOGETEHR and as I said I can check any time where she is because she has no sense of privacy and posts every day where she is, and she also made the world know about her cancer treatment (for the first time in my life I have not been sad about a person having cancer). If I were a nasty person I would know where to get her and at what time and I could hurt her. This is how stupid she is.

Going back to my husband we have radically changed our relationship, he looks after me, he desires me, we spend a lot of time together, we have learnt new skills together, we have been having quality time and quality sex since the end of the affair, he apologises when he does something wrong, he has become a lot more affectionate with our children and with our old parents, he is a changed man. So for the largest majority of the time we are really happy together but he seems to have a sense of guilt towards her (she wanted the fairy tale and she has developed cancer) or has an addiction and cannot stop this contact which by the way is two to three times a year and the conversations more and more superficial.

To all those who tell me to leave him and simply file for divorce, just bear in mind I have no pension because I only worked part time for many years so I could look after the children who are now adults, so if I divorce him, I am going to struggle financially all my life so his betrayal will be my economic struggle too. I thank you all for your comments anyhow.

FOR ALL WHO HAD A SPOUSE WHO BETRAYED THEM, how are you certain that they haven't contacted the ex Affair Partner anymore? I know about my husband because I have snooped his phone, but how can you be certain? They were very good during the affair to keep their secret, so if they want, they become even cleverer and find other ways to do so.

TO ALL THOSE WHO CHEATED, how did you decide to break contact with the ex AP? If they were important to you, why didn't you find other ways to continue the contacts? How did you live your bereavement? Didn't you feel like you had no air to breathe and you could not talk about it with your spouse?

TO ANNB you have not understood: WE ARE TOGETHER ON ANOTHER CONTINENT BECAUSE HE ACCEPTED A NEW ASSIGNMENT AWAY FROM HER AS HE COULD NOT CHANGE JOB BECAUSE TOO OLD TO BE HIRED.

TO BLACKBIRD25 you demanded he kept her out of his life but as they had been friends for 40 years, how do you know for SURE they don't keep secretly in touch? Surely they know each other's number by heart so they don't need to keep the contact in the phone. He let you contact her to impose on her not to go to the funeral, HE SHOULD HAVE DONE IT. I on my side do not impose on him to do things anymore, I did it at the beginning and it only created resentment, but honestly he must BELIEVE THEM, HE NEEDS TO CHOOSE THEM. I can tell him my desires, not my commands. I have the right to CHOOSE and so does he. He needs to know there are consequences, for example that I can't trust him.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 5:31 AM, Thursday, February 22nd]

or has an addiction and cannot stop this contact which by the way is two to three times a year and the conversations more and more superficial.

This is my vote.

But I don’t think you have the full picture of what that means. It’s like an alcoholic can’t just have a casual beer. I think it’s highly unlikely that is the extent of it.

First of all, if it were and he really was putting you first, blocking her would be instantaneous. He would clearly choose your feelings over hers.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not sure he has any real plans to be with her for real, they never do. But the occasionally pop in on each other because they are still romanticizing what it is they have.

I am sorry I know that is painful for you but the evidence is all there. I am sorry if an ultimatum is not possible for you because I agree it has to be executed. But I would read in the resource library the article about the 180. You should detach from him until he can make up his minds about where his priorities are. Let me be clear, I don’t think he is choosing between you and her, I think he is choosing between you and him.

As long as he will choose to keep this hurtful connection, he is choosing himself. He keeps her in a little box to get validation and who kibbles. He chooses to have his cake and eat it too - at your expense.

You deserve better.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:23 AM, Thursday, February 22nd]

Check his search bar in his social media accounts. This is assuming they aren’t still friends or connected in this way. I am betting you can find evidence he is looking up her profile on the regular. He may not be contacting her, but he is mentally still in his addiction.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:26 AM, Thursday, February 22nd]

HIKINGOUT

Thank you for your words.

My opinion is that whoever has an affair is displaying GREAT SELFISHNESS AND ENTITLEMENT.

My husband has made HUGE changes, but of course not a full change. It takes time. He put HIMSLEF AND SOLELY himself FIRST for all the duration of the affair.

I can assure you that he is completely a different man BUT he still has his flaws and his selfishness hasn't completely vanished. However during that time he was very detatched from the whole family, he was only self centred. I honestly believe he did not even care for the AP, she was a TOOL for the things he needed to experiment and for isolating himself in his little bubble where he had only validation, excitement and sex. He had a strong mid-life crisis and the emotions he felt with her, the transgression he lived was something he had never experienced because ha had grown up in a very strict and abusive family and he never had a proper adolescence, he was always the "good boy who obeyed his parents".

He has made incredible changes but I believe he struggled with the bereavement not as much of HER, but of the emotions he experienced WITH her. He lost his "bubble" where he could only think of himself and enjoyed it as a drug. Also he grew up with a sense of guilt and shame and knowing she wanted him to be her life partner and having developed cancer is haunting him and he feels he owes her something for disappointing her so badly.

He finds it very difficult to come to terms with the idea that all he did with his choices was to disappoint two women. So his sense of guilt makes him not ignore her when she writes to him, although he would do her a favour because she is still hoping he will change his mind in my opinion. She was married and she divorced because she hoped my husband would do the same. So he feels guilty he pushed her to that decision.

I honestly don't care about her. She can rot in hell. I solely wished my husband was able to ignore her completely (they were sharing sport activities and workouts on a specialised social media, he told her he is not doing sport anymore but it is a lie and actually he is doing the same sport activity with me now, but she doesn't know), so he is slowly finding ways to dismiss her, but he has this sense of guilt in him.

So yes, I agree he is still choosing HIMSELF at my expenses because he is selfish. But on an "improvement plan"

[This message edited by Molly65 at 6:08 AM, Thursday, February 22nd]

TO ALL THOSE WHO CHEATED, how did you decide to break contact with the ex AP? If they were important to you, why didn't you find other ways to continue the contacts? How did you live your bereavement? Didn't you feel like you had no air to breathe and you could not talk about it with your spouse?

In my case, the AP was discovered and he went no contact. Withdrawal was intense, yes. But that period of time only lasts so long and the symptoms subside. Read the Wikipedia page on limerence. Dr. Frank Pittman did some great articles too on romantic infidelity and love addiction.

I was actually treated for obsessive compulsive disorder because of the intrusive thoughts. It was like I knew the truth was I didn’t want to be with him, but the obsession with all of it was unexplainable but very real.

After he went no contact I went to counseling to sort myself out. And after going for two months, I decided to confess to my husband because I knew that if we had a chance it needed to start from an honest place.

I struggled for several months even after that with it all but oddly I did not feel tempted to break no contact. I was so sick with how much disrespect I had already asked him to endure that I pledged that I wasn’t going to distract that he was still there and I had made new promises that I intended to keep.

I did not speak to my husband a lot about the withdrawal as that would have been cruel. He was aware of the situation but his position was as long as I was consistently making progress and doing the work and committed to no contact he would give it some time.

But your husband has been "out of the affair" since Covid. Every single time he goes back and has contact, even if it’s just with looking at her Facebook page he is keeping that addiction alive. You do realize the reason she is posting all that shit is because she hopes he is watching it? I am not trying to be cruel, as I said I don’t think he wants her because if he did that’s where he would be. He just wants to keep his security and his wife and family but get those high feelings.

The addiction happens not because of love of even the AP - it’s the highs and lows. Getting really low and then the big hit of dopamine keeps the dependency. It’s very much like a gambler who gets his chemical high, then goes on a losing streak, convinced around the corner is another big win. Then there is a win, and the whole cycle starts again.

I don’t doubt your bills and has found ways of being better. He does want to stay married to you. But allowing this to continue is not something I would advise. He needs to get counseling and go cold turkey.

I honestly believe he did not even care for the AP, she was a TOOL for the things he needed to experiment and for isolating himself in his little bubble where he had only validation, excitement and sex.

I do not doubt that at all. I don’t think I cared for the ap either, I cared about how he made me feel.

. So his sense of guilt makes him not ignore her when she writes to him, although he would do her a favour because she is still hoping he will change his mind in my opinion.

Here is where I disagree. You don’t feel that level of guilt for someone you don’t truly care about.

I don’t think I felt guilty for the repercussions my ap might have experienced after the affair. I felt guilty for hurting his wife though. I don’t think you feel guilty for hurting a tool.

We cross posted but I already wrote why I think it’s the addiction. Just pointing out these two things you wrote don’t work together.

Your husband is choosing to continue to let her make him feel good (she is still his tool and will always be looked on like that. And as I have already stated he is choosing himself over you hy allowing her to stay around to do so.