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Excellent advice Bigger.

Unfortunately being in the middle of the situation— it’s hard to know what to do. I remember those months where I was not prepared for a D and didn’t want a D. But yet I didn’t want to live with a lying cheating spouse either (who was kicking me to the curb BTW).

But yet I had enough sense to get my plan B together during the six month nightmare I was living.

I was always afraid if I said or did the wrong thing it would send him running to the OW. However in reality, it didn’t matter. He was going to the OW while letting me believe he was committed to R.

It took a second Dday for me to FINALLY snap and declare to myself "I’ve had enough". And put myself first — not him, not the marriage — and do what was best for me.

Funny thing - I now do what is best for me at every turn. Period. But the doormat me for most of my marriage is completely opposite of the person I am today.

But it took me awhile to get there.

Sadly I was a crying mess during the affair. I did the pick me dance and tried to fix everything. Yes - classic mistakes.

Just like many here in Just Found Out - just unsure what to do. It’s hard for us experienced BS to sit by and watch newbies make those sane mistakes. But until the newbies are ready to see the value in our experiences and advice — there isn’t much more we can do. 😢

If you were to pack her bags and put them in the driveway she could quite easily and quickly call the police, and they would escort YOU out of the house while carrying her bags back in

I’m curious: what British law did you find where packing a suitcase and placing it outside constitutes an offense worthy of arrest and prosecution? Placing a suitcase outside seems to be the equivalent of *asking* someone to leave, and while I know free speech is under attack in the UK, I don’t think they’re quite there yet where OP gets cuffed-and-stuffed for moving a suitcase.

In any case, meet with a solicitor asap. Knowledge = power.

Google "can I throw my wife out of my house UK law?". This site (SI) requests we don’t post links, and that’s fine because about the first ten out of ten sites the search lists confirm what I am saying. Would be hard for me to choose.
Are we going to get into word-picking here? I am fairly certain there is no law that states the precise act of placing a residents possessions into suitcases and placing outside of home is illegal, but there are plenty of examples of how implied violence – emotional or physical – can be defined as abuse. The rights are guaranteed under the Family Law Act 1996 although I doubt the words "bag" and "Samsonite" won’t be found in the legal text.

Packing a bag and placing it in the driveway is in itself not wrong, but demanding she leave and enforcing it with actions such as packing her stuff and placing it outside the home would be. It’s like suggesting you threw a punch to the right of her face to hit the light-switch.

BTW - I have personal experience as a police officer in escorting men out of homes where I – as an officer – have evaluated the situation as such that the woman was at risk. Each and every time the furious husband wearing a set of complimentary police-bracelets has threatened legal action. In not a single one were my actions questioned or put in doubt by a judge.

Hi there Brly:

I've never posted on this forum after lurking for quite a while but your story resonates with me - sorry this is so long. The differences for me was the kids were older (14 and 16) and it was MULTIPLE affairs. But I thought I'd share what I did after I read her email and discovered what was going on.

First of all, take care of yourself - go to a doc and get something if you're not sleeping, eating etc. Get tested for STDs. Take care of your kids - you decide whether you want to tell them what going on, not her. I decided to not tell my kids pending the results of the critical meeting below, and ended up not telling them at all.

Go see a lawyer. Find out what the score is. For example, in my Province, it's a no-fault divorce, trying to get a divorce based on adultery is really difficult and expensive, so best to separate for 1 year, split assets and file paperwork through a service for $500. Spend some time planning how to exit, making preparations, and getting a script together for one more critical meeting with your WW. Get a Voice Activated Recorder and keep it on you to record interactions so she can't claim you abused her. Get a GPS tracker for her car. If legal in your country of course.

On the critical day, I disclosed the affairs(s) to the spouses of the APs via phone. I sent them PDFs of the evidence via email. In one case the marriage exploded, locks changed, accounts drained, screaming matches in the driveway in front of the kids, the whole 9 yards. Very satisfying. In the other case, rug sweeping because the AP had cancer etc. (which was very satisfying as well I have to admit). My WW's phone blew up obviously as her APs freaked out at her. I didn't call anyone else pending the results of the day.

When she got home I said nothing, went about my normal evening fixing the kids dinner, etc. My parents were poised to remove the kids from the scene if I called them, but I just put them to bed. We went for our usual evening walk, then as we walked up the driveway I said "We need to talk." She was sh*tting herself by that time.

The critical conversation was: "I know about the affairs. I know a lot about <name> and <name> and <important affair occurrences>. As I see it we have two choices. One, you decide to stop this garbage immediately, start acting like a married lady, work your a** off to make amends, make me feel safe, and maybe we can recover some semblance of a new marriage. Or if you want to act like a single lady, you pack your bags and get out, we sell the house, separate our assets, and you'll be alone. Time to choose, let me know." And I waited. She knew I was deadly serious, and that I would make her life a living he** if she chose option B, given I'd already outed her to the APs BWs. I knew being outed to her kids, family, friends, coworkers etc. was her worst nightmare.

In my case she immediately caved, handed me her phone, and passwords for all accounts, and sent no-contact emails (written by me) to her APs, with me watching. I made it clear this was the last chance to come clean, and she did. Over the next few weeks and months, she started working hard to make me feel safe, let me know where she was, came right home from work, refused to go shopping etc. without me, and generally worked her a** off to try to make things work. When she got her phone back (with a new number) she immediately turned on the Find My WW (as I call it) function. Her car had a GPS tracker in it as well, in case she ditched her phone. Seven years later she's still trying, although she's not as diligent as she was at first. On my part, I'm not the fidelity police. She strays again and we go right back to the beginning with option A off the table. In the meantime our financial situation is better, kids are adults, and Hysterical Bonding was pretty fun. I have a hair trigger to cut her loose these days - with retirement on the horizon it may end up being the last straw if she isn't interested in spending our retirement doing something we can both enjoy. She says she wants to keep working, which to me is a deal breaker.

So in your case, she needs to know you're not fooling around. The affair needs to be over, and you can help kill it by turning the heat up. I know she's disclosed to her mom at least, but be prepared to disclose more widely. On a critical day, a few calls disclosing the affair, or asking people for support in saving your marriage would mean she's under immediate heat and facing consequences. It shows her what "single lady" life looks like. Try hard to make her understand what that life would be like.

You choose as to whether you're willing to try to rebuild and reconcile. It's hard. It's years of eating a turd sandwich and not really feeling like justice has been served. However, there's absolutely nothing wrong, to me, about not wanting to blow your life up for something she's done, but you're getting good advice here, so follow your own path. But you really need to draw a hard line, and make it stick. You may be surprised - my WW told the APs she loved them too. She didn't. She loved the thrill of doing something illicit in her boring life. But she loves her house, her kids, and her life (which you're an integral part of) more.

I hope this helps. Best of luck, and really sorry you're here.

I suggested packing her bags and dropping off at affair partners parents.

I suggested it for the effect it would have on his wife and AP.

I did not suggest kicking out, but asking her to leave, there is a difference. I would say since communication is continuing that is it, you are getting a divorce. Go be with him full time ( whether that is what you want or not). The old cliche is true of being prepared to loose the marriage to keep it.

Staying under the same roof with what is going on is not a good situation emotionally to be in. She is trying to do enough to keep you about in case it doesn't work out with the builder.

Packing a bag and placing it in the driveway is in itself not wrong, but demanding she leave and enforcing it with actions such as packing her stuff and placing it outside the home would be.

And I never once advised he forcefully throw his W out of the home. In my view, packing her bags and setting them on the driveway, or better yet, as Chevette suggested, dropping them off at her parents or AP’s house, sends a clear message without, as Bigger first implied, risk arrest and prosecution.

As I’ve also consistently advised, OP needs to see a solicitor ASAP.

Brlywtr – You haven’t posted for some days.

If you are reading, then I guess the choice is yours:
You can take part in the Christmas pantomime and send your wife oblique and clouded messages with acts like not letting her know why you won’t celebrate the anniversary, where you are when you go to the hotel, pack her bags and place (even gently… as if that matters…) outside or at her mom´s… Makes great theater, great drama, great fantasy, terrible relationships though…
I guess people will get the drama… However, I fear the only written review you might get will be in the form of a legal document… I state with 100% confidence that I would NOT have an issue with writing a Domestic Abuse report for your wife if she reported it. You don’t need a black eye to be abused.

Or…
You can simply tell your wife that you KNOW she’s having an affair and that YOU are getting out of infidelity.

It’s your call.

Apologies I haven't posted.

I told my wife I wanted a divorce on Friday. Have spoken to two more solicitors since. My head is a mess, I'm not coping very well and it's got pretty dark.

Good to hear from you.
IMHO telling her you want a divorce beats indirect messages.

However – I want you to be as honest as you can to yourself – and in the cloak of secrecy this site offers – to us.
Did you ask for a divorce because you don’t want to be married to her or did you ask for a divorce to end the affair?
One reason I ask is because you say you have already talked to two more solicitors… You only need one, and in the UK divorce is pretty straight-forward. Why the hesitation? Buying time? If so – why?
If she were to come to you NOW and tell you the affair is over and outline how you can verify that and feel assured… Would you stop the process?

I’m totally fine with you divorcing.
What you should have gathered so far is I’m not fine with unclear messages and the limbo of indirection.
The advice we can offer will depend on what your end-goal is, and your preferred path to that goal.

In all honesty I probably did it to go nuclear and finally get some clarity of where her head is.

But it wasn't an empty threat, I was prepared to start the proceeding if there wasn't a marked change in her approach.

She has now stopped contact and I've been party to the messages and responses, and he's blocked on all possible contact options. Her phone has no lock and I'm free to check it whenever I want at the moment.

As good as that progress is, it's no way to live my life.

Deep down at this moment in time I absolutely do not a divorce but I know it probably needs to, and eventually will happen.

I'm at an all time low mood wise, and my thinking probably isn't completely straight at the moment.

In all honesty I probably did it to go nuclear and finally get some clarity of where her head is.

But it wasn't an empty threat, I was prepared to start the proceeding if there wasn't a marked change in her approach.

She has now stopped contact and I've been party to the messages and responses, and he's blocked on all possible contact options. Her phone has no lock and I'm free to check it whenever I want at the moment.

As good as that progress is, it's no way to live my life.

Deep down at this moment in time I absolutely do not a divorce but I know it probably needs to, and eventually will happen.

I'm at an all time low mood wise, and my thinking probably isn't completely straight at the moment.

So when you threatened her with Divorce, what exactly was her stance? Did she say she wanted to make amends?!?!?

Or was the stopping of communications with him just a temporary thing until she could sort out her legal defense and counter attack and she still wants to eventually go back to him?

It makes sense that your mood is low and your thinking is scrambled, that happens to all of us. But it isn’t your friend. As hard as it is in this unfair disaster, take the time to know what you want and pursue that. You don’t have to rush this. Your decisions will have life long impacts. Whatever you choose, you want to be able to look back and believe you made the best decisions you could based off what you had to work with. I’m sorry you are going thru this, it’s so hard. You can do it, just take it one step at a time.

If you don't want to D at this point, my reco is to think about requirements for R. If you and your W are willing to do the work, R is possible.

Once you have requirements, you can share them with your WS. If she signs on, R can start. If she won't sign on, you know you don't fit together well enough, and you can D.

Observable/measurable requirements can be monitored. Periodic review will tell you to keep going with R or D.

Standard requirements include:

above all: honesty - answers all questions, no more lies.

Also:

NC

Access to WS's media

WS keeps you informed of location, activities, and companions at essentially all time

IC for WS

specific requirements that you want (for example, my W had to arrange weekly dates for us).

We had a good MC, but MC is controversial. I'm for MC if the MC is skilled with couples recovering from infidelity and deals with the A first. Others believe most MCs just don't get it.

I'm posting because you seem to say you don't really want to D, and I assume that means you want to R. If I've misread your meaning, I apologize. You can at any point decide to D, and hold your head high.

*****

Your WS needs to come clean for your sake and for hers. It's necessary for you to hear or read some terrible stuff. If there's a deal killer in what she's done, so be it. It's best not to promise to R no matter what she reveals, but if you do, you can change your mind.

And you define 'deal killer'. A deal killer can be trivial - if my W had become a fan of the dallas cowboys or new jersey giants to please ow, I might have pulled the plug.

*****

Feeling low goes with being betrayed. It goes with losing an M. It goes with hearing about the A from your WS. You may feel worse if you actually D. You may feel worse when she comes clean and provides details.

The thing is: you can work through those feelings. It takes time and effort, more time and effort than you think it should take.

In the end, though, you can heal. You can live a good life, whether you D or R.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:27 PM, Tuesday, December 19th]

Also, choices you make today do not have to be permanent. You can choose to initiate divorce today and then do something different next week if she shows signs of becoming remorseful. You can choose to present her with your requirements for R today to give her a chance and then pull the plug next week if she gives you any reason to, or frankly if you just want to.

Sadly, the pain and confusion you are in is going to last for a while. I believe it is in your best interest to not force yourself into huge decisions rashly in this state. Be kind to yourself, allow yourself time if you need it.

The worst mistake you can make here is rugsweeping or pick me dancing. Stand strong. You have been robbed, demand restitution. That either looks like R with full remorse or D with your head held high. You are worth that and more.

See the last part in the Bigger Speech:

As I said in the beginning: I love you and would be willing to do a lot to save our marriage, but I won’t share you. I am getting out of infidelity. For a very limited time you can let me know you want this marriage but realize that I have been thinking about what’s going on and with every hour and every day I am more content with my decision to get out of infidelity. You would need to let me know in a very clear and unequivocal way and be willing to be totally accountable for me to stop my process of ending our marriage.

Right now, Brlywtr the worst thing is neither that you divorce nor reconcile. What is worse IMHO is a limbo way too many couples fall into. That’s where your wife might end the affair, you huff and puff about divorce and yet… you don’t do anything about it. You sit trying to ignore each other watching TV, maybe in a week or two you might have sex. Then maybe 1-2 months everything is back to normal…

A big part of what I suggested is based on giving your wife total freedom.
You tell her that she’s free to be with OM
Oh but Brly! Think about our kids! -> Brly: They will be fine. We can arrange a good coparenting schedule and work at being good coparents. Don’t need to remain married for that.
Oh but Brly! They won’t be raised in our dream-home! -> Brly: Not in this home, but they will always have a home. Maybe Bob the Builder and you can manage a nice home. Maybe I can manage a nice home in a couple of years.
Oh but Brly! What about my saloon? -> Not really my problem. You can get a job at a saloon or maybe even rent space. It’s not really my issue.
Oh but Brly! I will be skint! We will starve! -> No. You can earn a living, can get welfare, will get your share in the divorce and there will be child support. Remaining married for money is not really dignified, is it?

You peel away all and any excuse. Make it totally clear she can sample Bob’s power tools. If she wants to be married to you… it’s ONLY because she herself has decided to remain married to you.

What you DO NOT want is for her to hold a gram of resentment because you are holding her away from The Prince. If she tells you she wants, you… then it has to be because she wants you.

Things like an open phone and all that… How easy would it be for her to contact OM or for them to arrange a rendezvous without your knowledge? You can’t be her warden. So, you give her freedom. Only IF she tells you she wants the marriage she also has to realize that she IS free to contact OM, but that would be telling you she doesn’t want the marriage…

There are things that will need to be done IF she tells you she wants the marriage. That includes things like opening the phone and all forms of communications. Probably includes a timeline. Probably that she seeks therapy to make her understand what made her think she was entitled to an affair. If she has this clear message I’m suggesting and if she THEN tells you she wants the marriage, we can guide you on the next steps.

InkHulk is correct: you don’t necessarily have to commit to R or D right now. In fact, both paths run parallel for quite some time. I do suggest however that you try your hardest not to be moody and heavy around her. Until and unless she CLEARLY tells you she wants this marriage and does so of her own free will you keep on working towards D. That might include making an appointment with a solicitor for early January, researching divorce, gathering financial data and so on. If she tells you she wants the marriage you can slow this down, but still keep at it until you feel safe.

Your WW does not give a care about YOU nor your pain, Bub. She is still only thinking of HERSELF!

You are right to keep pushing for D, as your WW is not R material. This is just something you do not want to live the rest of your life with, (at least) unless and until your WW crawls over cut obsidian for you and your family. You are still young and there are plenty of women out there who will be faithful to you, Friend.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:55 AM, Wednesday, December 20th]

Brlywtr:

So sorry you are here. Excellent advice from Bigger. A good template for you to navigate your way forward with your WW. It is very early following your dday and your emotions are all over the place. Take care of you and process the real trauma imposed on you. You will figure out what you want. At this point we do not know if she is R material or not. Watch her actions and not her words.

" You may be surprised - my WW told the APs she loved them too. She didn't. She loved the thrill of doing something illicit in her boring life. But she loves her house, her kids, and her life (which you're an integral part of) more." This observation from snowybh is not an unusual description of a WS. Your WW is not unique. Both R and D are acceptable paths out of infidelity. You will receive good support no matter which path you choose.

Believe it or not, you have done well so far. Reread Bigger’s posts and take care of you. Always value yourself. If your WW is truly remorseful for her betrayal you will see it in her actions. Good luck.

She is still in contact.
Saw two half and hour video calls with him on her phone history yesterday.

Once again: The Bigger Speech…
Go do it. Implement it.

I also want to make this suggestion:
Be chipper and happy.
Not suggesting you walk about the house whistling and laughing at the birds outside the window. But I’m suggesting you behave like you have purpose.

Your wife is telling you indirectly with her actions what her choice is. Her choice (based on what you share) is NOT to end the marriage, but it’s to keep the affair. It’s up to you to get the message across that YOU refuse to remain in infidelity.
You don’t get that message across by refusing to eat her dinner, not talking, or sighing excessively when in her presence. You get that message across by telling her "this is reality – I refuse to partake in infidelity and am getting out. Just like I told you (with the Bigger Speech). I’m not happy about it, but I know that within a couple of months I will be out of infidelity, even if that’s without you"

And that’s the reason you are chipper. You have a goal. You are in reality while she clings on to fantasy.

I have previously used this comparison on this site: It’s like you arrive home and your house is on fire. You could remain seated in your car and ignore the flames. You could blast the horn, could wail and shout… Still a burning home. You could ask the fire nicely to leave, could try to negotiate that it only burn the kitchen… won’t happen…
It’s not until you call the Fire Department and let them know there is a fire (acknowledge the problem and the solution), let anyone in the house and anyone that could be impacted or could help (stakeholders in the marriage), try to extinguish the flames (the initial offer of the WS ending the affair) or… if all else fails… saving what valuables you can.
When the firemen arrive you don’t request they take off their boots to spare the new flooring, that they try to blow out the fire rather than use water, that they only extinguish the visible flames and not the possible embers… You allow them to do their job until they start packing telling you the flames are out.
Nor do you contact a contractor to appraise and start fixing the damage while the firemen are still at it (MC while the WW is still in infidelity-mindset).
What you do is make 100% certain the flames are out before you even consider if the home/marriage still has sound foundations to repair from. Then and only then can you determine if you rebuild (reconcile) or relocate (divorce).

So PLEASE do the Bigger Speech or some version of it. Let your wife know that you are aware she’s still in contact and that you are moving towards divorce.
There have been suggestions you move her out of your house or your bedroom or whatever…

Things you can’t really do IMHO and could even have serious consequences for you if you forced them on her.
What you CAN do is ask her to move:
"Wife – since we are headed for divorce then it’s inevitable we don’t live together. Would you be willing to move in with your mom or move in with Bob the Builder? Don’t worry about the marital asset – that will be handled fairly in the process".
"Wife – would you please move out of the bedroom into the guest room? I’m just thinking that since we are divorcing it’s inevitable we don’t sleep in the same bed. Seeing as you can now freely go sleep with Bob at his place it makes more sense that I stay in the environment I’m familiar with"
And – if she refuses (which she will) YOU move to the guest bedroom. Its more important to have a clear message and to start the process of separation than have some game of chicken over who stays in the master-bedroom.

Make the affair reality. Break the fantasy-bubble. Set her free, and then see what she does with that freedom.