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Ive given my WH chance after chance. I found his 4th affair today. I knew something was up for a while but he was a little sneakier this time so it just ate away at me for a while until the opportunity presented itself to look at his work emails. That being said, I want to have everything in a row when I out him. I have no intentions of working through it this time. Hes done nothing but gaslight and manipulate me when I would mention how I felt like something was going on. "we cant move on in this marriage if you won't trust me". Yeah well we cant move on if you continue to cheat. So what guidance do you have to offer. Im struggling with the logistics and finances of a lawyer. Im also struggling with the typical issues. Wanting to know all the things. Mostly just how long it's been going on. I know I won't get an answer. Id been preparing myself of this possibility for some time but it really didnt help once had the proof infant of my eyes. I feel worthless and weak. I just want it all to go away but I know that this time I need to push though and get a divorce. So. What do yall got, What do I need to know? We've been married almost 16 years (16 in October). Im about to finish my masters degree. We live in Florida and currently live with my mom (we moved in to help her out financially after my dad passed away. We are looking at houses as we speak, but obviously I won't be moving out. Any other pertinent information?

[This message edited by Elle2 at 9:44 PM, Tuesday, May 7th]

I’m so sorry for you. You sound like you’ve been trying and he’s been cheating.

You don’t need to confront him. Biggest misstep you could make. See below for why I say this.

I think you need to get copies of your last 2-3 years of tax returns and all current statements/ retirement, bank, credit cards etc.

Store them offsite. Not in your home or anywhere he has access.

See a lawyer and ask questions about how it all works.

If your mom owns or rents the residence, then you ask him to leave. If he refuses and he’s not on the deed or title or lease, call the sheriff or police and have him removed.

You don’t ask if he’s cheating. Not required here. You don’t need answers b/c he’s not giving them to you. You already know that.

You very calmly say that you’ve given it some thought and this marriage no longer works. Not for you. Not for him. It’s time to separate and he needs to leave. Now.

You don’t ask if he’s cheating if the conversation goes in that direction. You just say you know he’s been seeing other women and you now realize he’d be happier with them, and you would be happier divorced. If he tries to get you to tell him your proof - decline to go down that road. You can say to him there’s nothing left to discuss. You’ve made your decision and it’s final.

Maybe have a bag packed in advance for him. Tell him he can come back on X date and get the rest of his things. Don’t fall for his crying or empty promises b/c you know he’s only upset he got caught. He’s not upset he’s cheated many times.

Remain calm. If he yells, leave the room. Don’t let him bully you.

I wish you could have seen the look on my H’s face when I told him I was D him and he’s free to be with the OW. He said he didn’t want to be with her. It was over.

I just walked out of the room. Did not engage.

Have a plan. See an attorney. Get their advice.

Do not discuss his affair. It’s a moot point - he’s not going to admit and he just wants to manipulate you.

If it’s over just keep saying "it’s over". Nothing further to discuss.

You will see the balance of power very quickly change if you play your hand properly. BTDT. Like a boss!

What she said! It is hard, but you don’t have to pretend for long. It’s great you can stay with your mom.

See the lawyers and start lining up your ducks. Let him be as blindsided as you were.

I posted in my original thread but I'll post here as well. he found out I knew. And of course blamed me. Said he wasnt happy and that he told me a long time ago things needed to change. I said that I was worried something was going on and you lied and promised me that we would be together until we were old and gray (just this week when I once again mentioned my concerns). That was where I left it. He tried to fight and argue but I wouldnt. I just said, for the first time ever in my life "we are getting a divorce". I told him I wanted to wait to tell the kids (13, 9, 3) until we knew a plan. As soon as I get home he brings DD up to me and says "DD we need to tell you something, (I tried to stop him here and he wouldnt), we are getting a divorce." she cried and had questions that we clearly dont have answers to which is why I wanted to wait. Then he played super dad the for the rest of the night. I was just thinking, maybe had he been that super dad more often and not left me to do it all, then maybe he would have had a happier wife. But no. Regardless, he now knows and we will be divorcing.

I’m sorry, but your WH telling your DD like that is outrageous. The poor poor girl. Please let her school know so that they can support her / give her some grace if she struggles over the next few days / weeks. That must have been such a shock, especially as neither of you would have had answers to the inevitable questions. He is a nasty nasty man to do that to his child, and should reassure you that your decision to D is the right one.

At this point, I would go into full on protective parent mode. Get in touch with a lawyer asap today while the kids are at school. Mention your WH’s actions re your DD and keep your lawyers updated as time goes on as you figure out childcare arrangements. If school has a counsellor, see if your DD would like to have a session.

And for you, if you have an IC schedule a session in the next few days. A divorce coach is another option for your support (I saw one for a few sessions as it was so lonely at first). See your doctor if you have trouble sleeping or are feeling panicky.

Harness the anger. It will help push you through.

Wow your STBXH is a real jerk.

Expect more of the sane during the D proceedings.

You need a shark of an attorney IMO.

Protect you & kids as best you can. Read up on parental alienation b/c it sounds as though this is what his MO will be. Blaming you for the D. Blaming you for everything.

And making sure the kids hate you because you chose to D and get out of this sham of a marriage.

Get some professional counseling. Your STBXH only thinks of himself.

1stwife, that’s my biggest fear. He slips into what I call "Disney dad" and is the fun, kind, understanding dad. Not the normal dad. He’s good at manipulating our 13 yo.

Elle

Let’s be very practical here...
Living in your mom’s home... No own home to deal with...
That could/should make the divorce process easier.
If he doesn’t volunteer to move out your mom can have him evicted.

You two still need to deal with a lot of practical issues, but at least not the dispute about the value of the family home, who moves out and all that. It becomes his issue to find a new residence.
Just keep in mind that you can’t (and shouldn’t) prevent the kids from visiting and spending time with him if his home is adequate to the task.

What a jerk. Obviously he will use the kids as pawns. Get the sharkiest lawyer in town. And just keep being an awesome mom. The truth will win out.

Sorry I dont know how to quote or respond,
Bigger, I would never deny them seeing him unless there was safety issue.
Barelybreathing, he keeps telling people "the truth will come out" and im like...it has. The truth is that you were lying, cheating, manipulating and gaslighting me for 6 years. Sure we had a crap marriage at times, but I never once cheated. He tries to justify it with me being a bad wife and him telling me that he needed more from me. But I had told him long ago something felt off and that I was having a hard time trusting him. I told him it's hard to give him what he needs when I dont feel connected to him and feel like hes up to no good again. He promised there was nothing. Told me I was paranoid. guess not.

You said you are completing your master degree and you are not sure about finances.

As much as you want to throw him out of your life (and rightly!) if you think finances will be a problem, try to complete your degree as your priority first, because that is what you really need to be able to apply for jobs that will provide the money you may need.

Your husband is clearly a cheater and a liar and you cannot trust him, so reconciliation is not an option. Try to plan things to your advantage. 😉

Fantastic, my school is covered, Im more worried about the day to day stuff. Between me and my m om and child support im sure it will be fine, its just a scary unknown Im looking at now. Ive always had him to help. I always done my fair share but never on my own.

(((Elle2))) so sorry it has come to this, but D is the way to go with these characters. Your WS reminds me of my xWS from the blaming me for the A's, to blaming me for not getting over the A's, blaming me for my reaction to the A's and how it kept pushing him away and finally blaming me for leaving and D. My xWS is also a Disney Dad. He wasn't really there for me and the kids until I left and now he is father of the year He does stuff with them now he never did while we were M. He also has tried to alienate in insidious ways. At one point my son asked me if I was a narcissist

It took me some time to stop reacting and there were also times I have to admit I bad mouthed him to the kids which I never should have done as that is their dad and well it was dumb of me to do that. I quickly got myself together and haven't badmouthed since, even if he says or does something that would illicit a response from me. I am no contact with him and parallel parent. It works better that way with a narcissist. Your WS seems to have some narcissistic tendencies in regards to making himself the victim and not taking responsibility for the downfall of the M.

Make sure you speak with a lawyer soon to find out what to expect in a D. Surround yourself with friends and family establish a strong support system and if you are not in therapy I would find an IC to help you get through this.

Oh and life is way better on the other side of this. I wouldn't want what I had with him if someone paid me millions. Haven't regret the D once. You will be free of the lies and wondering where he is. Feeling bad because of how you feel towards him. It's just so freeing to be away from them and get that peace of mind back.

Crazyblindisded, He is a narcissist. Ive known it for a while. In some ways maybe not, but as a whole I do think he is. The last few years Ive had a hard time with most aspects of our marriage. Intimacy for one. Another is nice gestures. If he says something really kind and profound to me I freeze and dont know how to react outside of the "awe thanks babe" because I know that he will more than likely throw it in my face later about how hes always so nice to me or he will say the complete opposite of what he said few days later when it serves him best. For example, less than a week ago he SOBBED to me about how proud he was of me for what Im doing in school and in my internship (I work with kiddos on the spectrum). SOBBED. And then went on to say how lucky our son is (who also has autism) to have me as a mom and how he knows he will always be ok be he has me. Now before this hes fluctuated between two stances on me going to school....that it is great for the family and will pay off for us OR "its selfish bc you are the only one that will benefit from another degree". So when he had this sobbing session about how proud he was of me, I just kept hoping it would stop soon. Genuine (for his current mood at least) or not, I didnt want to hear it bc it made me uncomfortable and I didnt know what to say. If I say very little, then im ungrateful. If I say too much then I leave the door open and let my guard down and accept what he said. Same with gifts. Im a horrible gift giver. I over think things too much. He is a spender. Last weekend he probably spent $300 on random shit for me. Completely random. I didnt like much of it and thats a lot of money to us now so I told him I appreciated the thought but that I wouldnt use any of it and to bring it back and save the money. That was a huge issue. I also realize that while he was running out to do these sweet things, he was more than likely talking to this girl which now adds another layer to it all. Another thing, I have been saving money secretly (because if he knew I had money he would spend it just as fast as he spends his) so I could cover the down payment and pet fees when we moved out. I finally told him this weekend (stupid on my part) and he was angry bc "the whole family was suffering while I was saving for my own personal gain". I explained why, but he didnt care. Im fairly certain his mind I was saving it for a divorce lawyer (this was before I knew what was going on but I think he started to realize I was on to his shit). He recently said, in regards to me saving money secretly that "I may have cheated but at least I wasnt hiding money and letting my family suffer".. And for the record no one was suffering. AT ALL. We have lived without and significant income from me for years so with this new job I was taking 1-200 a paycheck and saving it. Again, no one suffered, hes just trying to look for any reason to make me a bad guy.
I let the husband know last night. turns out after the first affair between these two 6 years ago, they did have a hard time getting over it. And he was like me where he didnt like the idea of them working together but she promised him it would be strictly work. I told him I honestly dont think they ever really stopped and that as long as they work together they never will.

That sounds like an awful way to live Elle, I think you'll be surprised at how much more peaceful and happy your life becomes when you rid yourself of your WH. What he is doing is emotionally abusive and meant to keep you in a constant state of panic.

I’m glad you hold the OW’s husband. He deserved to know what his wife is really like too.

Are you able to get your STBXH out of your home?

(((Elle2))) you are going to be amazed how great life is going to be for you when this a**hat is out of your life. I just read your post in JFO and my head is just spinning. Honestly it brought me back to feelings I had felt with my xWS, gawd they are so much alike. My xWS got off on my pain too. Please kick him out as soon as possible. He is trying to drive you crazy so he can then point at you and say see look how she is acting. Ugh these narcissists need to be sent to their own island so they can abuse each other.

Yes and now hes trying to play the saintly card. "I dont want to fight" "This conversation started out fine and now look how it is" because yes. I still sometimes have hard time not making comments because im fucking mad. Im mad that he is already moving on and fine and Im here just trying to wrap my mind mourned not wearing my wedding band. It's easy for him to move on bc of course he wants to pretend like nothing happened. We discussed child support today. I'll be taking the kids 100% overnight until he finds a proper place. As of now he doesn't have anything. Which made me wonder...is there certain requirements for his home and the kids? Like...can he keep them in a one bedroom apartment? Currently our toddlers bed is in our room and our older two share a room. I live in Florida and from what ive seen it just has to be a "safe home"? Does this seem correct? At one point I had the crazy idea that we could just get a house together as planned, but when its my time I stay at the house and he leaves and when its his time I leave an stay at my moms. We needed to move to a place closer to the kids school bc we live quite a distance away and managing 3 kids with different drop off and pick up times is a pain living that far away. Clearly that coparenting dream came crashing down this weekend. I just dont understand how he can do this to us. And still blame me for his choice.

Yes I believe he is going to have to have at least one room designated to the kids when he has them. I'm not positive about the laws concerning that, but definitely has to be a safe home for them and they should each have a place to sleep.

I just dont understand how he can do this to us. And still blame me for his choice

.
This is because he is personality disordered and we don't understand it because we actually have empathy and a conscience. The more you research NPD the more it makes sense and the puzzle pieces come together, at least for me it has. Check out Quora and Dr. Ramani videos on YouTube are very insightful.

This is because he is personality disordered and we don't understand it because we actually have empathy and a conscience.

Nailed it!

I listened to a short (10 min) podcast by Dr. Phil. He said he tried working with narcs, but it was above his pay grade. The abuse a narc puts you through is tough, so please be sure to take time to heal.